I read with great interest a recent posting and responses on grounding and towing, and I would like to ask the forum a related question. Most of my sailing has been on Lake Michigan and Carlyle Lake. No tides, no currents to speak of, and very little shifting bottom. On my few Florida sailing ventures, I was not the captain. So I'm not really familiar with tides, varying depths, etc. I am, however, planning on doing some coastal sailing in the future. So here's the question. How difficult is this tidal/coastal sailing? I mean, we have all these posts about multiple towing companies buzzing around waiting to pull people out of the mud, and unlimited tow insurance policies, soft/hard groundings, political decisions on who can tow when, etc. I had the notion that if I studied and practiced my navigation, started off slowly and carefully, and did the same kind of thoughful preparation I do with other aspects of sailing, that I would be fine. Which is not to say perfect ... I expect even the most careful would get caught out every few years. But this stuff makes me wonder. So ... how hard is it? What benchmark should I be using? Thanks, Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
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MIke D
Advice
Tom, I am hesitant to give advice on issues such as this. There is, however, a saying in the Chesapeake Bay that applies to your query. I think it is indicative of most coastal areas that will need to negotiate. "There are two types of sailors in the Chesapeake, the ones who run aground and the ones who never leave their slip." Take it from there. good luck, Mike D
Tom, I am hesitant to give advice on issues such as this. There is, however, a saying in the Chesapeake Bay that applies to your query. I think it is indicative of most coastal areas that will need to negotiate. "There are two types of sailors in the Chesapeake, the ones who run aground and the ones who never leave their slip." Take it from there. good luck, Mike D
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Paul
Salvage vs Tow: know how it works
Read a terrific article (on sailnet.com) explaining the difference between a tow and a salvage, how you can protect your rights under salvage laws, and what to look for in your insurance policy. Follow the "related link." p.s. some days sailing is really easy. Other days it's really hard. The key is being ready for the second kind of day. Just remember, any moron can drive a power boat.
Read a terrific article (on sailnet.com) explaining the difference between a tow and a salvage, how you can protect your rights under salvage laws, and what to look for in your insurance policy. Follow the "related link." p.s. some days sailing is really easy. Other days it's really hard. The key is being ready for the second kind of day. Just remember, any moron can drive a power boat.
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Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Not that hard
I had always heard the expression - Two kinds of sailors, those who go aground and those who lie. (See also, those whose boats leak and those who lie). There is truth there. I only went aground once so far this season but I did it bad enough to see three inches of bottom paint while I waited for the tide. Tied to a dock. Where I'd asked the dock hand how much water I would have at low. Oh - well. It was a nice afternoon. Coastal sail is different in that you will need to remember the tides when you figure depth. Depending on where you are they can be almost nothign - Florida - to 12 feet - Maine. With tides come currents. All that water has to move. But there's no big deal to it. Watch the tide clock and you'll be fine. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
I had always heard the expression - Two kinds of sailors, those who go aground and those who lie. (See also, those whose boats leak and those who lie). There is truth there. I only went aground once so far this season but I did it bad enough to see three inches of bottom paint while I waited for the tide. Tied to a dock. Where I'd asked the dock hand how much water I would have at low. Oh - well. It was a nice afternoon. Coastal sail is different in that you will need to remember the tides when you figure depth. Depending on where you are they can be almost nothign - Florida - to 12 feet - Maine. With tides come currents. All that water has to move. But there's no big deal to it. Watch the tide clock and you'll be fine. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
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John Visser
Can be hard
I understand Justin's points, but can't agree, especially where I am, in Buzzards Bay. There are, on average, six rescues per week in Wood's Hole. Currents can run in excess of 2.5 knots in teh Bay and Vineyard SOund, and can hit 6 knots in the Cap Cod canal and elsewhere. Mud groundings are one thing - here there are rocks - many ships have been lost over the years, several boats are in trouble every weekend. THe worst rock places are marked by wrecks! (Hen adn Chickens at teh tip of Gooseberry Neck). The QE-II went aground with much damage in Vineyaard Sound about ten years ago. The point - do your homework, seek expert local advice, and have a plan of action in case something goes wrong. jv
I understand Justin's points, but can't agree, especially where I am, in Buzzards Bay. There are, on average, six rescues per week in Wood's Hole. Currents can run in excess of 2.5 knots in teh Bay and Vineyard SOund, and can hit 6 knots in the Cap Cod canal and elsewhere. Mud groundings are one thing - here there are rocks - many ships have been lost over the years, several boats are in trouble every weekend. THe worst rock places are marked by wrecks! (Hen adn Chickens at teh tip of Gooseberry Neck). The QE-II went aground with much damage in Vineyaard Sound about ten years ago. The point - do your homework, seek expert local advice, and have a plan of action in case something goes wrong. jv
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Guy Iverson
Tidal / Costal Not That Hard, But!
In Tom's article he made the following statements: I had the notion that if I studied and practiced my navigation, started off slowly and carefully, and did the same kind of thoughful preparation I do with other aspects of sailing, that I would be fine. Which is not to say perfect ... I expect even the most careful would get caught out every few years. In answer to Tom's inherent question. . . Yes, you will be fine. There is of course a couple of however's! My sailing grounds have several well defined, read safe channels surrounded by miles of water that can be enjoyed under when the tide is right. So, you can be safe (and perhaps a little bored) in the channel or you can take some calculated risks of a soft grounding which can result in some inconvenience and expense.
In Tom's article he made the following statements: I had the notion that if I studied and practiced my navigation, started off slowly and carefully, and did the same kind of thoughful preparation I do with other aspects of sailing, that I would be fine. Which is not to say perfect ... I expect even the most careful would get caught out every few years. In answer to Tom's inherent question. . . Yes, you will be fine. There is of course a couple of however's! My sailing grounds have several well defined, read safe channels surrounded by miles of water that can be enjoyed under when the tide is right. So, you can be safe (and perhaps a little bored) in the channel or you can take some calculated risks of a soft grounding which can result in some inconvenience and expense.
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Mike Casucci
Currents & Tides
Depends on where you are. On the Housatonic River the tides and current are a major consideration when you leave the dock. If you stay inside the channel markers you're OK. Rapid current, narrow channel. On the Sound, rest of areas well marked on charts. Did touch bottom once coming out of Liberty Landing on the Hudson across from lower Manhattan.
Depends on where you are. On the Housatonic River the tides and current are a major consideration when you leave the dock. If you stay inside the channel markers you're OK. Rapid current, narrow channel. On the Sound, rest of areas well marked on charts. Did touch bottom once coming out of Liberty Landing on the Hudson across from lower Manhattan.
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Jeff
Raises another question
I to have not sailed extensively in tidal waters and in the event I charter a boat do they include towing insurance in the rate or does one need to buy it?
I to have not sailed extensively in tidal waters and in the event I charter a boat do they include towing insurance in the rate or does one need to buy it?
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Matt Blender
Coastal sailing
I can sympathize, Tom. I moved up in boat size and left a lake environment to be on the coast of Georgia. Dealing with the tidal current was an eye-opening experience! But, if you pay careful attention to the nav aids (the real ones, not the ones shown on your chart-plotter) you'll do OK. On the coast, GA and the Carolinas particularly, the near shore shoals are constantly shifting. The charts will often note that not all nav aids are shown as they are changed often to keep up with the shifting channels and inlets. On the ICW, you have to watch the nav aids carefully, not the just the ones ahead, but the ones behind as well, to avoid being pushed outside a channel. Lastly, make sure you are familiar with how your boat reacts to wind and current under sail and under power. Good luck. Matt
I can sympathize, Tom. I moved up in boat size and left a lake environment to be on the coast of Georgia. Dealing with the tidal current was an eye-opening experience! But, if you pay careful attention to the nav aids (the real ones, not the ones shown on your chart-plotter) you'll do OK. On the coast, GA and the Carolinas particularly, the near shore shoals are constantly shifting. The charts will often note that not all nav aids are shown as they are changed often to keep up with the shifting channels and inlets. On the ICW, you have to watch the nav aids carefully, not the just the ones ahead, but the ones behind as well, to avoid being pushed outside a channel. Lastly, make sure you are familiar with how your boat reacts to wind and current under sail and under power. Good luck. Matt
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Ric Trimmer
Channel about Long Beach Island?
Guy, With your "fleet", you have craft that will navigate almost anywhere? Give me a holler "off list" at rtrimmer@ford.com
Guy, With your "fleet", you have craft that will navigate almost anywhere? Give me a holler "off list" at rtrimmer@ford.com
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Steve Bollinger
It can be harrowing
I have owned my hunter 30 for one year and have gone aground more than 10 times. Most of the time is actually when I am in the channel!! Florida is notorious for shallow waters, especially in the coastal bays. It is imperative to check the local charts and make sure that they are updated. Fortunately, the tidal differences are minimal here, 2 feet usually exept in winter, then 2-3. The channels in the bays are supposed to be deep enough for 6-8 feet. I have a 4'3 draft and have gone aground at low tide in 3 feet of water dead center of the channel. Some of the "gunkhhole" channels are rarely dredged because it is up to local waterfront homes to pay for it. Most are power boaters who dont care. So, no dredging. If you go aground in a channel, chances are you will have to wait it out. Welcome to Florida. Good luck and happy sailing!!
I have owned my hunter 30 for one year and have gone aground more than 10 times. Most of the time is actually when I am in the channel!! Florida is notorious for shallow waters, especially in the coastal bays. It is imperative to check the local charts and make sure that they are updated. Fortunately, the tidal differences are minimal here, 2 feet usually exept in winter, then 2-3. The channels in the bays are supposed to be deep enough for 6-8 feet. I have a 4'3 draft and have gone aground at low tide in 3 feet of water dead center of the channel. Some of the "gunkhhole" channels are rarely dredged because it is up to local waterfront homes to pay for it. Most are power boaters who dont care. So, no dredging. If you go aground in a channel, chances are you will have to wait it out. Welcome to Florida. Good luck and happy sailing!!
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Capt Joe
SEA TOW!!!
If you are planning on sailing coastal FL,Ga,Sc,Nc,Va, then GET A SEA TOW MEMBERSHIP. For the price it is a great insurance policy. I have seen boats that have lost power and been thrown onto the beach at shackleford banks off Beaufort inlet, NC. Have your boat in good operating condition, have up to date charts, have a good depth sounder and watch the day markers in front and behind you and ask locals for information on any area your not comfortable sailing through<<<most important. You can do it!!!!
If you are planning on sailing coastal FL,Ga,Sc,Nc,Va, then GET A SEA TOW MEMBERSHIP. For the price it is a great insurance policy. I have seen boats that have lost power and been thrown onto the beach at shackleford banks off Beaufort inlet, NC. Have your boat in good operating condition, have up to date charts, have a good depth sounder and watch the day markers in front and behind you and ask locals for information on any area your not comfortable sailing through<<<most important. You can do it!!!!
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Tom
Partially agree with capt joe-get "tow insurance"
But be careful what company you get it through. sea-tow operators might be good in one area and rip-offs in others. You'll have to research who is the best in your area. Ask other boaters, I would go with one that has a good reputation and is close and has coverage in your area. Just recently there was a discussion about someone that had the Sea Tow operator want to charge the sailboat for a salvage when he obviuosly only needed a tow (he floated off fine a few hours later)
But be careful what company you get it through. sea-tow operators might be good in one area and rip-offs in others. You'll have to research who is the best in your area. Ask other boaters, I would go with one that has a good reputation and is close and has coverage in your area. Just recently there was a discussion about someone that had the Sea Tow operator want to charge the sailboat for a salvage when he obviuosly only needed a tow (he floated off fine a few hours later)
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Tom Monroe
thanks!
Thanks to all who responded. I think what I'm taking away from this is that I need to do some coastal sailing with an experienced, knowledgable sailor rather than just self-study the books and move into it slowly/carefully which is my normal method. And, I guess the tow insurance is a "must." I have the "land equivalent" for my old motorhome. How much is this Sea Tow insurance, anyway? Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
Thanks to all who responded. I think what I'm taking away from this is that I need to do some coastal sailing with an experienced, knowledgable sailor rather than just self-study the books and move into it slowly/carefully which is my normal method. And, I guess the tow insurance is a "must." I have the "land equivalent" for my old motorhome. How much is this Sea Tow insurance, anyway? Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
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