Soft Foredeck

Jackdaw · Oct 9, 2017

@Swiplash and @Love and Luck
Both you guys are total noobies, so I'll cut you some slack and give you some advice. Old boats come in all state of repair; good to basket-case. The difference in price is usually much less then what someone would invest in time and money to bring a bad one up to scratch. That assumes someone knowing what they are doing, and doing it right. With all respect, that does not seem to be the case here, based on the questions you are asking and the solutions you are proposing. Your money/time your choice, but I'd suggest that you listen to some of the advice here, and maybe look for a better boat.

In any case, don't get wound up when people suggest that; its probably the best course of action.

JRT · Oct 9, 2017

With a soft core the through bolts will eventually compress the deck and crack it, plus the bolts will show and add anouther leak path.

If she is free or really cheap sounds like a deal. All that work to try and make nice looking I'd cut the headliner out, you wouldn't see it anyway and could be covered with a headliner and look nice. Still I've seen O'day 25 and 26 listed with trailers in the 4-7k range you could consider.

I'm a new owner and I would recommend listening to Jack and CB

Love and Luck · Oct 9, 2017

Jackdaw said:
@Swiplash and @Love and Luck
Both you guys are total noobies, so I'll cut you some slack and give you some advice. Old boats come in all state of repair; good to basket-case. The difference in price is usually much less then what someone would invest in time and money to bring a bad one up to scratch. That assumes someone knowing what they are doing, and doing it right. With all respect, that does not seem to be the case here, based on the questions you are asking and the solutions you are proposing. Your money/time your choice, but I'd suggest that you listen to some of the advice here, and maybe look for a better boat.

In any case, don't get wound up when people suggest that; its probably the best course of action.

not everyone needs to wait two years for a Pogo, Jack. Some people just want to get out and sail with what their means allows.

It's "you didn't mortgage your daughters so you shouldn't sail" attitudes that have been keeping people away from sailing.

My first car wasn't a Ferrari. It was a Ford Pinto. It ran, for a while. Then I bought a Subaru. I still don't want a Ferrari, not really. Fast isn't all there is to life.

SG · Oct 9, 2017

not everyone needs to wait two years for a Pogo, Jack. Some people just want to get out and sail with what their means allows.

It's "you didn't mortgage your daughters so you shouldn't sail" attitudes that have been keeping people away from sailing.

My first car wasn't a Ferrari. It was a Ford Pinto. It ran, for a while. Then I bought a Subaru. I still don't want a Ferrari, not really. Fast isn't all there is to life.

It's been pretty "gentle" here (for the most part) :^))) Hopefully it will stay that way.

What's a 'Pogo'????

Beyond that: Simply commenting on one's view of sensibility of doing something is just giving advice. In most cases that what one asks for it here by posting. If you didn't want advice, and just want affirmation or reinforcement this might not be the best place to post. :^))).

That doesn't mean that all advice given is correct. People here, just like anyplace, can occasionally get their "facts wrong".

This place would be pretty boring if all people did was provide emotional affirmation of individuals' "plans".

Davidasailor26 · Oct 9, 2017

Love and Luck said:
not everyone needs to wait two years for a Pogo, Jack. Some people just want to get out and sail with what their means allows.

It's "you didn't mortgage your daughters so you shouldn't sail" attitudes that have been keeping people away from sailing.

My first car wasn't a Ferrari. It was a Ford Pinto. It ran, for a while. Then I bought a Subaru. I still don't want a Ferrari, not really. Fast isn't all there is to life.

I don’t think Jackdaw or anyone else here is suggesting a new boat is the solution. The suggestion is that swiplash carefully consider whether the boat he’s looking at will really be less expensive in the long run than something that’s in better repair. We don’t know anything about how much swiplash is looking to spend on this boat - we’re not judging that. We’re just giving informed opinions on what it will likely take to make the boat usable given the problem he’s described. Certainly some people on this forum have done great things with old boats to fix their rot, and I respect that a lot. But to tell swiplash to just go and buy the boat regardless of what’s wrong with it, just because the sale price is within his budget, is not responsible either.

Panera · Oct 9, 2017

I have a 1978 O'Day 25. Core rot is a problem. I've chosen to make strengthening patches. Removing the Pulpit, cut the fiberglass under the pulpit attachment places. Remove and save the cutout. Then clean out as much rotted material between the layers as far in as possible. I used a pressure washer to clean out between the layers. Let is really dry out. Then get some fill material, lots of little blocks of wood impregnated with resin. Make sure that the thickness is correct to fit between the layers. I then mix up some resin and dip the blocks one at a time and insert them between the layers pushing them as far as possible into the cleaned out area. Keep going until the area is filled and inject some extra resin into the area. Replace and bond the cut out fiberglass let cure the replace the pulpit drilling new holes, and lots of backing inside.
I've done this with stantions with great success. There are some places that you cannot get to using this technique but is works for those areas that really need strengthening.

HEINZIR · Oct 9, 2017

I’ve done something similar in re-coring sections of the deck of my 1979 Montgomery 17. I had been dreading this job and was torn between various approaches to the repair. The inside fix turned out to be relatively easy and mess free.

I cut out large pieces of the inner skin with a multi-tool and scraped out the rotten parts, leaving the skin intact. I cleaned and sanded the fiberglass skins in my garage, then epoxied on the appropriate thickness of end grain balsa core that I had ordered from Defender. After the epoxy set I trimmed the excess core from the edges of the fiberglass. Then I saturated each piece (individually, one per day) with slightly thickened epoxy and carefully brought it into the boat and put it in place. (Needless to say, I had removed the cushions and lined the v-berth with plastic sheeting to protect the cabin from spills.) I used a couple of bottle jacks and some scrap 2x4s to hold the section in place until the epoxy kicked. Repeated the process every day until all of the irregular shaped pieces were laminated in place and formed a secure deck. A little sanding and some touch up with epoxy and I was done. I will probably paint it or add a fabric headliner at some point but it is mostly out of sight so it might be a while.

I was able to take my time doing this because I can only have one boat on my mooring at a time. Last year was Chiquita’s turn in the water, leaving Monita, the M17, on the hard in my driveway. So I could work on one Boat and still sail the other when the mood struck.

Henry

jibes138 · Oct 9, 2017

Not sure I'm getting this "bracing" idea? You have two layers of FRP with a large gap between them. Bracing the bottom layer does nothing to stop the top layer from flexing down when stepped on. You will never be able to tighten the nuts as the deck will keep flexing until the two layers come in contact. You need to fill that gap with something solid that also bonds to both layers.

Hayden Watson · Oct 9, 2017

jibes138 said:
Not sure I'm getting this "bracing" idea? You have two layers of FRP with a large gap between them. Bracing the bottom layer does nothing to stop the top layer from flexing down when stepped on. You will never be able to tighten the nuts as the deck will keep flexing until the two layers come in contact. You need to fill that gap with something solid that also bonds to both layers.

I concur. at the bare minimum any holes drilled through the deck to use for bolting on a below deck brace would need to be "potted" in order to make a small compression post to keep the bolts from pulling the two skins together and causing further damage. This should become obvious as soon as the first hole is drilled if the core is rotten.

JRT · Oct 9, 2017

Deck will still flex in the opan areas unless the plan is to use a lot of bolts everywhere. I'll be honest I would not touch a boat repaired like that. I looked at an AMF 23 with somthing similar and said nope.

LeeandRick · Oct 9, 2017

Well there you have it. The good, the bad, and the average comment on a forum, then the goodbye, almost in less than 24 hours. I think I'll stay. Thanks for the positive or negative comments to my questions folks. Makes me think.

JRT · Oct 9, 2017

Well this is another idea.

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/i...ir-without-major-surgery.187846/#post-1405154

Ward H · Oct 11, 2017

Swiplash said:
My original post asked if a soft foredeck in an oday 25 was normal.

I have a rare 1980 O'day 25. Rare because I've installed new winches, standup blocks on the deck, then jib car tracks, chain plates, traveler for the main and a deck organizer plate under the mast tabernacle.
Only soft wood I found was a very small area under the mast plate, no bigger than the mast plate.
While I haven't gone looking for wet decks my stanchions, pulpit and pushpit are all solid. Bulkheads are solid.
You asked if it was common to have flex in the foredeck. There isn't on mine. If it is common, its probably only because there are more old boats in poor shape than old boats in good shape.

Apex · Oct 12, 2017

nice answer Ward: I have a friend who had an O'Day 25, soft foredeck. It was indeed in poor shape. He knew it, and lived with it. Unfortunately the soft deck is RARELY the ONLY part of the boat in poor condition, leakng chainplates led to a rotted bulkhead, and ultimately his mast came down. After trying to repair the boat was simply scrapped, there are many other boats for cheap out there that directed the financial decision to scrap rather than repair.

DougWW · Jun 11, 2019

I bought my oday 22 this spring. Checked the deck for soft spots everything was fine ,unfortunately there must been frost in core.i have soft spots now. the fore deck mostly
I would like to inject foam to prevent more damage and do a proper fix after the season, any thoughts?

JRT · Jun 11, 2019

You need to get the moisture out. Injecting foam seems it would capture the water an the wood would still rot. I suppose if it is small and you drilled holes on the underside to drain the water out then you could drill small holes in topside and use Git Rot, I had a small area on a bulkhead, about 2" x 4", and it worked well enough. Keeepi g the holes small will make it easier to fill then and cover up.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00144EN3Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_dhfaDb301PFN7

svchickadee · Jun 16, 2019

Here is what you'll have.

Tally Ho · Jun 16, 2019

A buddy of mine had moisture in the laminate of his Catalina 30. He paid someone to drill holes in the laminate ( I think he said from the bottom) and blow dry heated air into the laminate to dry it.

I was skeptical when he told me this...would not remove the bad filler (balsa or plywood). And I am not sure it would actually dry anything out...not enough airflow.

Greg