So lets talk about sails

Whatfiero1

Whatfiero1

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Mar 29, 2017
576
Hunter 30t 9805 littlecreek
So I got these new sails the other day. I club race so i was looking for a good light wind sail. Seems to me its plastic glue and those thick lines that looks like fish not stocking is actually a sticker i peeled at it and played with it. Am i really only gonna get 5 yr out of this sail till it dies?
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D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
11,432
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Depends on how you treat it.

The carbon fiber is strong and the laminate glues are better now than they were a decade ago.

@DrJudyB will have a more well informed opinion on how to treat the sail. Did you get the taffeta film or the Lite Skin option?
 
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shemandr

shemandr

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Jan 1, 2006
7,076
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
My guess is that the sail will maintain its shape but the film will breakdown due to UV, luffing and abuse. How many years depends on how much of those it sees.
 
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Whatfiero1

Whatfiero1

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Mar 29, 2017
576
Hunter 30t 9805 littlecreek
I bought the sail used so I dont know of its taffeta or lite skin I'll take a close up photo but it a sticker those black lines are a sticker so hoping someone knows what type sail skin this is
 
jon hansen

jon hansen

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May 25, 2012
4,335
john alden caravelle 42 sturgeon bay, wis
oh yeah, baby. your going to love that sail. you can't win without it. lots less weight aloft. shape control like you've never had.
over the years what happens is from the mast forward they will look great. from the mast aft the get beat up from the rig. so, prepare your rig. tape is cheap and sails are expensive. learn to come about so that you have the sail in the rig as little as possible. then, just do the maintenance. have it tweeked as needed at your loft.
i took two tape drive jibs to my loft this winter for a check over, did not cost much.
when the first puff hits those sails and they do not change shape and you shoot ahead a boat length over the competition, your going to love that sail.
 
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shemandr

shemandr

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Jan 1, 2006
7,076
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
My Ranger 29 came with a Tape Drive sail that was pretty tired. The shape was still good but it was like a porch screen.
 
jon hansen

jon hansen

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May 25, 2012
4,335
john alden caravelle 42 sturgeon bay, wis
hard to see from the photos, but because it is a 'deck sweeper', it gets into your life lines, which is normal. hoist the sail as far aloft as you can. maybe a soft shackle at the tack to get a couple more inches off the fence. in racing, every little detail counts.
 
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PaulK

PaulK

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Dec 1, 2009
1,241
Sabre 402 Southport, CT
Our tape drive sail was fantastic. Held its shape and performed beautifully. Helped us win club championship against some tough competition. Shemandr’s prediction is eventually inevitable, however.
 
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jssailem

jssailem

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Oct 22, 2014
21,104
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
I raced with a friend on his Cal31. He got a used tape drive sail. It drove the but well in light winds. As Jon shares tacking can be quick or tear the sail up. We put a person at the mast to encourage the sail across. It helped. When the crew was limited he found the sail would hang up on the rigging. It a stiff (to strong) breeze he put a rip in the leech. Had to take the sail down and our lead diminished.

Have fun. Enjoy the advantages. Report the sail to the race committee so they use the correct PHRF rating if your class requires an adjustment. Fudge.
 
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J

JohnShannon

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Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
I had a really old version of those, what happened in my case was the plastic degraded so you would end up putting holes through the sail with routine handling. So in effect a gradual loss of sail area. It never just ripped along a seam (like my jib).
 
Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

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May 17, 2004
5,079
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
jon hansen said:
hard to see from the photos, but because it is a 'deck sweeper', it gets into your life lines, which is normal. hoist the sail as far aloft as you can. maybe a soft shackle at the tack to get a couple more inches off the fence. in racing, every little detail counts.
Click to expand
Id expect the sail to be completely inside the lifelines when close hauled, at least it is on the boats I’ve crewed on. Assuming that’s the case I think the standard practice is to get the sail as low as possible, to lower the Center of Effort and maximize the end plate effect from the deck.
 
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jon hansen

jon hansen

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May 25, 2012
4,335
john alden caravelle 42 sturgeon bay, wis
interesting, i don't have inboard shrouds and so the jibs always need to lay over the life lines. hence the distortion of the leading edge of the foil.
good to know
 
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Whatfiero1

Whatfiero1

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Mar 29, 2017
576
Hunter 30t 9805 littlecreek
Jumpstart already ordered west coast sailing had the black stick on material
 
Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

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May 17, 2004
5,079
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
And have a foredeck guy ready to skirt the sail over the stanchions immediately after each tack, so the jib trimmer doesn’t have to wait and get hung up.
 
DrJudyB

DrJudyB

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Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
I don't think there's any "skin" at all on that genoa. I can see through the genoa well enough to see colors and shapes of things hidden behind it.

You can't see anything through a LiteSkin, not even telltales, or sail numbers, not even if the sun is behind the sail.
With a tafetta skin, you can see shadows on the sail and the contrasting sail numbers.
The pic below is a black aramid laminate with a single tafetta skin - with the sun shining behind it. You can not see the top of the ridge through it. It's a Contender product from 2017.


.

Below is a carbon/aramid laminate genoa without a skin, with the sun shining through it from behind. It looks just like the genoa that the OP posted. It's a Dimension-Polyant Carbon Sport without a skin from 2017.

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I should make it clear that I am NOT an expert on tape drive sails. So my answers are based on my knowlege of laminates made with mylar with scrims. The foundation of the UK tape drive sails is a product by Dimension Polyant. I've got a fair amount of experience with DP's mylar laminates of all kinds, but I don't know much about UK's proprietary taping technology.

How long it last before the Mylar fails depends on how many hours are already on it.
How long it holds its shape depends on what the fibers in the tapes are. Carbon, Twaron, technora, or black polyester?
And it depends on home much UV exposure and flogging the sails are exposed to. Overlapping genoas get old faster than skinny jibs.
And, of course, how old was the technology was when the cloth was manufactured?

We measure the service life of laminates in increments of 100 or 500 or 1000 hours of use. Very, very roughly, we can say that 500 hours of use is about 50%-70% of the service life, depending on the fiber type and whether or not there's a skin. At 1000 hours is late middle age for most laminates. At 1500 hours, the sail is probably close to retirement age.

My boat came with an old aramid tape-drive genoa from UK. The mylar film was starting to fall apart in places and the leech had a shape more like a salad bowl than an airfoil. I have no idea how old it was, but it had a shape that wasn't acceptable to me.

Judy B
 
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