Snubber..... attaching with hitch.

dlochner · Jul 25, 2019

Greg,

I've been trying to figure this out too. I used a Mantus hook but that is kind of large and doesn't run through the anchor roller. So, moving on I just replicated this product from Mantus: https://www.mantusmarine.com/snubber-pendant/
My version is not as pretty, but it should work just as well. I used ¼" dyneema with a spectra cover.

jssailem · Jul 25, 2019

Greg. The purpose for the nylon 3/4 3 strand with the chain is to provide a rode that has stretch. It helps to cushion the boat movements against the no stretch chain.

The amsteel has no stretch. This would be an uncomfortable time at anchor against the chain. Every boat movement would feel like it was yanking the bow off the boat.

If you use it on the 5/8th line rode that is nylon, then the 5/8th line would serve to cushion your boat movements. You might find it acceptable. Connection of the Amsteel will be a challenge as it is slippery line and does not tie knots easily to other lines.

I use dyneema or amsteel to make soft shackles. Work great. You can make eye splices with the material if you use a locking knot and a ling bury.

Good luck.

jviss · Jul 25, 2019

NYSail said:
if I ever use more that my 100 feet of chain I will be on 5/8 rode and hook won’t obviously work.

If you've got 100' of chain out and you're into the rope, you don't need a snubber, do you? (Assuming you're using the snubber as a shock absorber, which is the reason most use a snubber.)

Pirate Dave · Jul 25, 2019

Greg. The purpose for the nylon 3/4 3 strand with the chain is to provide a rode that has stretch. It helps to cushion the boat movements against the no stretch chain.

The amsteel has no stretch. This would be an uncomfortable time at anchor against the chain. Every boat movement would feel like it was yanking the bow off the boat.

X2

Amsteel is like wire, hence the name. With a good wake, you will tear the cleat out
before the line provides any shock absorbtion

jssailem · Jul 25, 2019

I had not seen that Mantus arrangement, Dave @dlochner . That looks like it would work connected to the snubber instead of the chain hook. On the chain it would appear susceptible to chafe. But that can be monitored. A small length of dyneema or Amsteel is low cost expense for such a strong connection.
I am going to give it a test. I'll share my experiences.

AaronD · Jul 25, 2019

I could be wrong, but from a quick glance at the pictures of the Mantus pendant, I wonder if the gray cover might be dacron instead of Dyneema / Spectra, for friction. A Dyneema cover would be more abrasion-resistant, but also much slicker. Would a 3-wrap prussik of slippery Dyneema hold or slide on rope? I have no testing either way; just curiosity.

dlochner · Jul 25, 2019

Dynema is a little slipperier than Dacron. I used dyneema because I had some. Abrasion resistance is important, chain is not the smoothest surface, throw in a little salt and grit and you could be asking for trouble.

Since I didn't have access to Mantus other than in the photos, I guessed at the dimensions, I was a little short. Start with a 10' piece for ¼" dyneema, add a couple of feet for 5/16" dyneema. Dyneema requires a long bury on the splices, 50-60. times the diameter.

AaronD · Jul 25, 2019

You might be able to use a continuous loop as well, spliced as at https://l-36.com/loop.php. I'm not sure what the pro's and con's might be. For climbing, I used tied loops for prussiks, but the applications might be different enough that it wouldn't work well here.

Kings Gambit · Jul 25, 2019

The only reason I know to "snub" 3-strand that tails the chain after all of the chain has been veered is to take strain off of the windlass. To do that, all you need is a hitch to the 3-stand, the bitter end of which is stopped off at a deck cleat. If your 3-strand is 5/8", you need a cow hitch or rolling hitch of 9/16" 3-strand positioned between the windlass and the bow roller stopped off at its bitter end.

Strain relief on the windlass is the other essential function of the chain snubber; that in addition to providing the cushioning stretch described above..

Kings Gambit · Jul 25, 2019

In my view, what serves an anchored vessel most well is an ability to recover the ground tackle quickly to get underway if need be. Bridles add "complexity" so add to the time to deploy and recover. They are not really needed on most sailboats, catamarans being one exception, IMHO. The weak link in the system excluding the windlass is usually holding power of the anchor, not the strength of the rode or the deck cleats, etc.

Captain Larry-DH · Jul 25, 2019

NYSail said:
The amsteel would just be the attachment between the snubber and the chain/rode. Will still have snubber. And I will use snubber when I get to rode because I like to have a bridle set-up between the two front cleats. Boat does not have a center cleat to tight rode off on and I hate just tying to just a port or starboard cleat.

Thanks
Greg

This is what I've been doing for years -- I use 2 with my bridle, but you could use one with a snubber. Here's a little detail (sorry I don't have pictures but I'm not at the boat):
I use a loop of 1/4" amsteel about 8-10" in diameter. Wrap the Dyneema around the rode in a Prusik knot https://www.animatedknots.com/prusik-knot
Attach the snubber to the free end of the loop (I use a heavy duty stainless snap hook)

The Prusik knot is a constrictor that will not slide when it's under tension, but it's also easily removed even after storm force winds have pulled it tight.

dlochner · Jul 25, 2019

Captain Larry-DH said:
This is what I've been doing for years -- I use 2 with my bridle, but you could use one with a snubber. Here's a little detail (sorry I don't have pictures but I'm not at the boat):
I use a loop of 14" amsteel about 8-10" in diameter. Wrap the Dyneema around the rode in a Prusik knot https://www.animatedknots.com/prusik-knot
Attach the snubber to the free end of the loop (I use a heavy duty stainless snap hook)

The Prusik knot is a constrictor that will not slide when it's under tension, but it's also easily removed even after storm force winds have pulled it tight.

That's basically what the Mantus snubber pennant does. It gets a little fancy with 2 eyes to attach to a shackle.

AaronD · Jul 25, 2019

Captain Larry-DH said:
This is what I've been doing for years -- I use 2 with my bridle, but you could use one with a snubber. Here's a little detail (sorry I don't have pictures but I'm not at the boat):
I use a loop of 1/4" amsteel about 8-10" in diameter. Wrap the Dyneema around the rode in a Prusik knot https://www.animatedknots.com/prusik-knot
Attach the snubber to the free end of the loop (I use a heavy duty stainless snap hook)

The Prusik knot is a constrictor that will not slide when it's under tension, but it's also easily removed even after storm force winds have pulled it tight.

This would seem to answer my question about whether Dyneema is too slippery for a prussik. Sounds like it works just fine.

Captain Larry-DH · Jul 25, 2019

AaronD said:
Sounds like it works just fine.

Yes it does. I've been using this method about 10 years.

Captain Larry-DH · Jul 25, 2019

Also, I make my own Dyneema splices -it's easy and you can find some good online guides. Make sure your bury is long enough, and gradually tapered. A few hand stitches are also a good idea to make sure the splice doesn't loosen when it's not under tension.

Snubber..... attaching with hitch.

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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