Several media stories in the last year have highlighted how many marinas are being gobbled up for new condo developments. The trend is said to be well-advanced in Florida. How is this affecting people who try to live on their boats full time, moving back and forth from Florida to New England during the seasons? Is it now getting so hard to find long-term moorings and/or slips that the Snowbird lifestyle is imperiled? Is even owning any boat at all on east coast a problem today if you don't have seashore property to go with it?
- Status
There does not seem to be a shortage
of slips on the chesapeake bay, but we have 11,600 miles of tidal coastlineso we can and do spread out a little. Not very many people want to winter on a boat here , although this winter wouldn't be very unpleasant.
of slips on the chesapeake bay, but we have 11,600 miles of tidal coastlineso we can and do spread out a little. Not very many people want to winter on a boat here , although this winter wouldn't be very unpleasant.
Snowbirds
We have some friends that are considering moving their Catalina From Florida to a lake in North Carolina and spending summers aboard and enjoying the lake lifestyle.They would return to the condo for the winter without the boat. Kind of the reverse of what you had in mind of spending the winters on a boat down here. I am not a realtor but believe me waterfront property with slips have dropped in prices {do to over building} but the deals will not last. The market down here is flooded with condos, waterfront with slips and without slips. If you want to guarantee yourself a slip the time to buy is NOW! Oh coarse if you are one of those people that hate Florida the timing would never be right. I should post some pictures of the half built waterfront condos just in my area alone, and yes, these places were once marinas. Jack
We have some friends that are considering moving their Catalina From Florida to a lake in North Carolina and spending summers aboard and enjoying the lake lifestyle.They would return to the condo for the winter without the boat. Kind of the reverse of what you had in mind of spending the winters on a boat down here. I am not a realtor but believe me waterfront property with slips have dropped in prices {do to over building} but the deals will not last. The market down here is flooded with condos, waterfront with slips and without slips. If you want to guarantee yourself a slip the time to buy is NOW! Oh coarse if you are one of those people that hate Florida the timing would never be right. I should post some pictures of the half built waterfront condos just in my area alone, and yes, these places were once marinas. Jack
Boating Just Unaffordable
I am moving to the west coast of florida and hoping to find a home owner with an empty slip due to the high cost of owning a boat and also because of hurricanes and and would like to make some extra $$$$ we can all keep our fingers crossed for affordable boating.
I am moving to the west coast of florida and hoping to find a home owner with an empty slip due to the high cost of owning a boat and also because of hurricanes and and would like to make some extra $$$$ we can all keep our fingers crossed for affordable boating.
Hurricanes Katrina and Rita have......
Hurricanes Katrina and Rita have certainly brought up the cost of boat owning substantially. I used to pay $240/yr for insurance, now I pay $2,200/year. My slip fees used to be $160/mo. and now I am paying $430/mo. for an equivelant slip/marina. If we converted these figs to annual averages and brought that down to monthly costs, then I used to avg, 180/mo. for boat slip and Ins. Now I am averaging $613/mo. If we didnt live aboard, we would not be able to own a boat on the Gulf coast. Many marinas were wiped out by the storms and some will probably never come back. When i purchased my boat back in Feb. in a marina in Fl. the monthly slip fee was $605 for what i considered a really low quality marina in Dunedin Fl. Depends on what you get used to. The tenents there thought it was a great place.
Hurricanes Katrina and Rita have certainly brought up the cost of boat owning substantially. I used to pay $240/yr for insurance, now I pay $2,200/year. My slip fees used to be $160/mo. and now I am paying $430/mo. for an equivelant slip/marina. If we converted these figs to annual averages and brought that down to monthly costs, then I used to avg, 180/mo. for boat slip and Ins. Now I am averaging $613/mo. If we didnt live aboard, we would not be able to own a boat on the Gulf coast. Many marinas were wiped out by the storms and some will probably never come back. When i purchased my boat back in Feb. in a marina in Fl. the monthly slip fee was $605 for what i considered a really low quality marina in Dunedin Fl. Depends on what you get used to. The tenents there thought it was a great place.
Sailor TonyB
Thank you for sharing your rising costs of boat ownership. Are you renting a slip in the Biloxi/Gulfport area? If so, I'm just 20 miles east of you. While I've had several sailing friends complain about their insurance rates either rising sharply or being dropped altogether, I've heard little about slip rentals rising. Thankfully I rent from the city; that could be a blessing in some ways Many of us sailors go to the extreme to prepare for an approaching storm, however, many more choose to do nothing. Those are the ones that cause rates to rise for all of us. Personally, I would like to see insurance companies penalize boat owners who do nothing to protect their investment; if a boat is left to fend for itself then no payment should be made. Two weeks after Katrina passed one sailboat owner whose boat had survived the hurricane on a mooring, removed a hose, opened the seacock, and allowed his Oday 25 to sink. After committing the dastardly deed (the day he opened the valve) he had the nerve to tell me....I immediately reported it to the local authorities but they apparently did nothing and he collected $20K. His sailing buddy attempted the same thing (he would never admit it) a few weeks later but the Coast Guard intervened and forced him to save the vessel. Prison is too good for people like that.
Thank you for sharing your rising costs of boat ownership. Are you renting a slip in the Biloxi/Gulfport area? If so, I'm just 20 miles east of you. While I've had several sailing friends complain about their insurance rates either rising sharply or being dropped altogether, I've heard little about slip rentals rising. Thankfully I rent from the city; that could be a blessing in some ways Many of us sailors go to the extreme to prepare for an approaching storm, however, many more choose to do nothing. Those are the ones that cause rates to rise for all of us. Personally, I would like to see insurance companies penalize boat owners who do nothing to protect their investment; if a boat is left to fend for itself then no payment should be made. Two weeks after Katrina passed one sailboat owner whose boat had survived the hurricane on a mooring, removed a hose, opened the seacock, and allowed his Oday 25 to sink. After committing the dastardly deed (the day he opened the valve) he had the nerve to tell me....I immediately reported it to the local authorities but they apparently did nothing and he collected $20K. His sailing buddy attempted the same thing (he would never admit it) a few weeks later but the Coast Guard intervened and forced him to save the vessel. Prison is too good for people like that.
Dick!!!
I no longer live in Ms.as I still consider it my home. We used to move back and forth between Biloxi ( Point Cadet Marina) and Slidell ( Oak Harbor marina). Our boat, a Catalina 30, suffered some damage, enough to be 'totalled out' but I never considered it severe. Anyway, last time I saw here she was still floating and in not so bad a shape. We then bought an Allied 39 Ketch in Florida and moved it to Kemah, Tx. We do plan on moving back to Ms. but that will probably be a few years from now. I was in Vancleave for X-mas, but now im back offshore working. Tx. marina rates are much highr than the Ms. and Slidell rates. As for insurance, it was a total nightmare trying to get new insurance on an older boat. That was my girlfriends' full time job for about a month....TRYING TO FIND ME INSURANCE. Aint that a kick, LOL. The marina rates in Slidell, where we used to be, went up about 25%, which is still a bargain, but the area no longer has anything to offer us.
I no longer live in Ms.as I still consider it my home. We used to move back and forth between Biloxi ( Point Cadet Marina) and Slidell ( Oak Harbor marina). Our boat, a Catalina 30, suffered some damage, enough to be 'totalled out' but I never considered it severe. Anyway, last time I saw here she was still floating and in not so bad a shape. We then bought an Allied 39 Ketch in Florida and moved it to Kemah, Tx. We do plan on moving back to Ms. but that will probably be a few years from now. I was in Vancleave for X-mas, but now im back offshore working. Tx. marina rates are much highr than the Ms. and Slidell rates. As for insurance, it was a total nightmare trying to get new insurance on an older boat. That was my girlfriends' full time job for about a month....TRYING TO FIND ME INSURANCE. Aint that a kick, LOL. The marina rates in Slidell, where we used to be, went up about 25%, which is still a bargain, but the area no longer has anything to offer us.
Moving On
Although the marina rates in unaffected areas of the Gulf didnt go up drastically, for myself and others that left the area, 'our' rates have. Since neither myself nor my GF have anything to really hold us to Ms., we chose to move on as many others have. Most people we know have left the area. All of the places we enjoyed sailing to are no longer in existance. Everything is different. So now we have chosen to live in places that are a matter of convenience such as my work, her kids and mine, etc. We loved the Biloxi area, but now its like a big vacuum to us. Like I said earlier, we will eventually move back because we hope that what we loved will return. We thought that when oak harbor marina re-opened, it would fill immmediately, since there are still lots of 'diplaced' boats looking for a home. We guessed wrong. They cant hardly give away their slips. Re-construction on most of the piers has been halted since there is a lack of customers. People that have never seen the Ms. Coast ,before and after, havent even a clue as to what is going on or more accurately, what is not going on. Its hard to put into words, but its not the fear of future storms that is keeping people out, its the fact that no one wants to live where there is nothing to see or do or places to go. Its not the same kind of analogy that someone would use as to living out in the country. Its just 'different'. For most people, cheap prices are not a bargain if there is no place to live or work. Its fine for some, but not for us. Its amazing how one storm can change so many lives forever. Even the people we know that stayed behind are not the same. Looking at familiar places brings back fond memories. Well, for us, the memories are there, but the places are not. Damn, I'm having a difficult time with this. Wish I was a writer or poet. they seem to have a gift with words. I obviously dont.
Although the marina rates in unaffected areas of the Gulf didnt go up drastically, for myself and others that left the area, 'our' rates have. Since neither myself nor my GF have anything to really hold us to Ms., we chose to move on as many others have. Most people we know have left the area. All of the places we enjoyed sailing to are no longer in existance. Everything is different. So now we have chosen to live in places that are a matter of convenience such as my work, her kids and mine, etc. We loved the Biloxi area, but now its like a big vacuum to us. Like I said earlier, we will eventually move back because we hope that what we loved will return. We thought that when oak harbor marina re-opened, it would fill immmediately, since there are still lots of 'diplaced' boats looking for a home. We guessed wrong. They cant hardly give away their slips. Re-construction on most of the piers has been halted since there is a lack of customers. People that have never seen the Ms. Coast ,before and after, havent even a clue as to what is going on or more accurately, what is not going on. Its hard to put into words, but its not the fear of future storms that is keeping people out, its the fact that no one wants to live where there is nothing to see or do or places to go. Its not the same kind of analogy that someone would use as to living out in the country. Its just 'different'. For most people, cheap prices are not a bargain if there is no place to live or work. Its fine for some, but not for us. Its amazing how one storm can change so many lives forever. Even the people we know that stayed behind are not the same. Looking at familiar places brings back fond memories. Well, for us, the memories are there, but the places are not. Damn, I'm having a difficult time with this. Wish I was a writer or poet. they seem to have a gift with words. I obviously dont.
Tony
You may not of thought of it but you are grieving the loss the same as if it were a family member. Life goes on, but with a giant hole where you expected more happy memories. It's OK to feel it.
You may not of thought of it but you are grieving the loss the same as if it were a family member. Life goes on, but with a giant hole where you expected more happy memories. It's OK to feel it.
Thanks Doug.
You are right on the money and we are well aware of it. That is why we have elected to move on. Its not just the emotional aspect, its also the physical aspect in that there really isnt anything left that we knew of. The press leads people out of the area to believe that the Ms. coast has 'come back' when in reality , it hasn't. I was there last week. It seems that the area that werent hit to the point of total devastation are fixin up. But the areas of total wipeout havent even begun yet. Its mostly an insurance issue, or lack there of. The only one really getting all of the publicity is New Orleans which incidentally didnt really get hit with Katrina. They just caught a glancing blow. Most of their damage was from levy failure on the Lake Ponchartrain side. The squeaky wheel gets the most grease. For most people that left, which includes most of our friends, there is no home or job to go back to. People with school age kids cant come back because there wont be many schools for at least another year. Now this is NOT actual statistics, but my own personal observations: Some of my friends that lost their boats have bought RV's with their insurance money. They are out of boating. Just about all of them were middle aged to older cruisers, did their share of cruising and have had it with storms. One can look at an RV and think of it as a boat with a different kind of hull. Its the personality that makes one a cruiser, not the hull. Others, like myself have bought another boat and have moved out of the area. Some have bought another boat, moved back to the area, and now are seriously thinking of leaving the area. Others have not and are not planning on replacing their boat for a very long time. Reasons vary from too high insurance, no place to keep it and too much risk and trouble. As for those whose boats survived the storm, many of the liveaboards left the area and many remain there. The non live-aboards are still there. They have found less expensive places to keep their boats. The popular thing is to get permission to tie up to private boat docks where the boater also provides an 'incidental' security feeling to those homes temporarily abandoned or being rebuilt. The numbers are about equal in all categories. So Doug, its not just a giant emotional hole, its also a giant physical hole. And thanks again for your insight and compassion. I hope Herb Parsons sees this . I'm curious about his input since he also keeps a boat in Slidell, La.
You are right on the money and we are well aware of it. That is why we have elected to move on. Its not just the emotional aspect, its also the physical aspect in that there really isnt anything left that we knew of. The press leads people out of the area to believe that the Ms. coast has 'come back' when in reality , it hasn't. I was there last week. It seems that the area that werent hit to the point of total devastation are fixin up. But the areas of total wipeout havent even begun yet. Its mostly an insurance issue, or lack there of. The only one really getting all of the publicity is New Orleans which incidentally didnt really get hit with Katrina. They just caught a glancing blow. Most of their damage was from levy failure on the Lake Ponchartrain side. The squeaky wheel gets the most grease. For most people that left, which includes most of our friends, there is no home or job to go back to. People with school age kids cant come back because there wont be many schools for at least another year. Now this is NOT actual statistics, but my own personal observations: Some of my friends that lost their boats have bought RV's with their insurance money. They are out of boating. Just about all of them were middle aged to older cruisers, did their share of cruising and have had it with storms. One can look at an RV and think of it as a boat with a different kind of hull. Its the personality that makes one a cruiser, not the hull. Others, like myself have bought another boat and have moved out of the area. Some have bought another boat, moved back to the area, and now are seriously thinking of leaving the area. Others have not and are not planning on replacing their boat for a very long time. Reasons vary from too high insurance, no place to keep it and too much risk and trouble. As for those whose boats survived the storm, many of the liveaboards left the area and many remain there. The non live-aboards are still there. They have found less expensive places to keep their boats. The popular thing is to get permission to tie up to private boat docks where the boater also provides an 'incidental' security feeling to those homes temporarily abandoned or being rebuilt. The numbers are about equal in all categories. So Doug, its not just a giant emotional hole, its also a giant physical hole. And thanks again for your insight and compassion. I hope Herb Parsons sees this . I'm curious about his input since he also keeps a boat in Slidell, La.
Storm precautions
Is there really that much you can do to protect your boat if a hurricane is bearing down? If it is at a mooring, will the mooring hold? If it holds, will other boats pile into yours anyway? And in a slip, what can you do if the hurricane devastates all of the docks and piles boats onto boats? If you have time, perhaps you can get the boat out of the water, but it doesn't seem as though most people can do that. I would be interested in everyone's thoughts.
Is there really that much you can do to protect your boat if a hurricane is bearing down? If it is at a mooring, will the mooring hold? If it holds, will other boats pile into yours anyway? And in a slip, what can you do if the hurricane devastates all of the docks and piles boats onto boats? If you have time, perhaps you can get the boat out of the water, but it doesn't seem as though most people can do that. I would be interested in everyone's thoughts.
YES THERE IS
There is lots of things that you can do to protect your boat...if possible to get to it in time. In my case, the marina had floating docks. The only prep could do was to remove anythng with wind resistance. However, i was working on a contract job offshore 600 miles away. By the time we hit land, it was impossible to get there in time. I had called ahead of time and someone was supposed to remove my Bimini and dodger sails. Well, that didnt get done. Most of my damage was to my bimini, dodger and sails. Not to mention dock rash and a crack near the compression post in the bilge. It was still quite salvageable. But the Ins. Co. totalled me out. Most of the boats in the marina with floating docks did very well. It was the larger boats tied and later floating and crashing into the floating docks in addition to the houses that floated and crashed on the marina that did the most damage. A lot is out of your control, but a lot is in your control also. It is a very rare probability that a hurricane will hit you personally. Most people get a glancing blow in which case, preparation means (*almost) everything. Also conside that Katrina was an extremely rare ocurance. I have ridden out Cat 1 and low Cat 2 hurricanes in a sheltered area. Was not a problem. Not even scarey. Many people in the Biloxi area that were able to get their boats way up into the back canals made it with NO problems. We chose our last marina in Slidell just for the floating piers. Well, that didnt work out for me , LOL. But after surveying the storm damage, I am sold on the idea of floating piers. I am now in Texas...ON A FLOATING PIER.
There is lots of things that you can do to protect your boat...if possible to get to it in time. In my case, the marina had floating docks. The only prep could do was to remove anythng with wind resistance. However, i was working on a contract job offshore 600 miles away. By the time we hit land, it was impossible to get there in time. I had called ahead of time and someone was supposed to remove my Bimini and dodger sails. Well, that didnt get done. Most of my damage was to my bimini, dodger and sails. Not to mention dock rash and a crack near the compression post in the bilge. It was still quite salvageable. But the Ins. Co. totalled me out. Most of the boats in the marina with floating docks did very well. It was the larger boats tied and later floating and crashing into the floating docks in addition to the houses that floated and crashed on the marina that did the most damage. A lot is out of your control, but a lot is in your control also. It is a very rare probability that a hurricane will hit you personally. Most people get a glancing blow in which case, preparation means (*almost) everything. Also conside that Katrina was an extremely rare ocurance. I have ridden out Cat 1 and low Cat 2 hurricanes in a sheltered area. Was not a problem. Not even scarey. Many people in the Biloxi area that were able to get their boats way up into the back canals made it with NO problems. We chose our last marina in Slidell just for the floating piers. Well, that didnt work out for me , LOL. But after surveying the storm damage, I am sold on the idea of floating piers. I am now in Texas...ON A FLOATING PIER.
- Status