Smile confusion

[fox islander]

OK so over in "Big Boats" there's a post on the "smile" and as I've heard before the smile is caused by plywood use at the keel stub...a practice Catalina corrected in the late 80's. Are there any other reasons for the smile? I had a smile repair this spring during my haulout on a '90 C30 Mk II. Maybe more of a grin than a smile...the crack was under 1/8" and about 6-7" in length both sides of keel.

 

[rbmcintire]

IMHO, it's keel movement opening the crack. Boat hulls do flex but the stub is the part of the hull that's least able to flex. Fins are 4200lbs and shoals are 4650lbs. If the keelbolts aren't torqued on something solid, those babies are gonna move.

Rob

 

[jim paris]

Nearly all Catalina sailboats built befor mid 1988 have what is known as “The Catalina Smile“. This condition is a crack on the top side of the leading and sometimes trailing edge of the keel between the fibreglass keel stub (hull) and the bolted on lead keel. Most bolted on keel boats have this condition to some degree. The keel cracks have many causes and combination of causes. They are probably caused by hard grounding, improper lifting, improper support and blocking when hauling out, wave action, improperly torqed keel bolts and many other reasons.
With pre 1988 Catalina sailboats this condition is agravated by the manufacture placing two layers of plywood in the keel stub with a thin layer of fiberglass over the top. Once a small crack develops in the keel joint water can leak in to the plywood through the keel bolt holes or thru holes or cracks in the bilge floor. The plywood gets wet and eventually rots. The weight of the keel pulls the keel bolts down into the softend plywood and the cracks open up more allowing more water intrusion.
Just patching the crack will result in the cracks returning in a short time. The proper way to repair the keel is to cut the plywood out of the keel stub, clean and inspect the keel bolts and rebuild the space occupied by the plywood with fiberglass. Catalina has issued a bulletin with their spesifications on how to do this and there are several good web sites showing how to do it. After the keel stub has been repaired the keel bolts shoud be torqued with new nuts to factory specs. Then it’s time to go outside, clean the cracks, seal and fiberglass over.
This is a very simplified version of the many times mis-understood condition.

 

[Me and Boo]

My 1984 had a full laugh, not just a smile (pics to be posted once I return home). I followed the instructions on how to repair it which means cleaning out the crack; tightening up the bolts (good luck find the correct wrench/socket for that); filling the crack and glassing it. The materials were about $300 for doing the job. There are many online diaries with pictures and instructions.

DIY and save money. If you never did fiberglass work before, this is one project that will save you thousands of dollars if you DIY. Follow the instructions from Catalina Yachts, West Systems and the online sites and you can do it. Most important, do not deviate from the how to's, instructions, tips and temperature charts. Wear the protective gear too, the real pro's do.

 

[wise4]

Nearly all before 1988 have it huh? Just a bit of a stretch there.... I've looked at a lot of pre1988 cat 30s... Can't say that many had the problem... Mine certainly hasnt had an issue with it... Perhaps it's more of a problem in an area that routinely hauls boats for the winter... Idk

 

[Maine Sail]

Nearly all before 1988 have it huh? Just a bit of a stretch there.... I've looked at a lot of pre1988 cat 30s... Can't say that many had the problem... Mine certainly hasnt had an issue with it... Perhaps it's more of a problem in an area that routinely hauls boats for the winter... Idk

The "smiles" may have been patched over too. Beyond 1988 Catalina no longer placed wood in the keel stubs of these boats. The smiles on post 1988 boats happens significantly less than on the earlier models, even when dry stored.

This repair is a major one, I've done it on our old C-30. Our keel bolts were sooo rotted where they passed through the wet wood that they needed to be replaced. I used the "barrel bolt" technique which I would not advise anyone to do. Mars Keel and Broomfield both replace bolts with a special process where they literally melt the old ones out and the new ones in. It is a like new keel when you get it back.

Removing the wood is tedious at best and is much more easily done without the keel in place. The engine on our boat needed to be removed to get all the wood out. On some years I hear the wood did not go that far aft..

Some of these keels were bedded with a fiberglass putty and some with 5200 or similar. Both can leak once the wood gets wet and begins to compress. I think the biggest culprit for moisture ingress is bilge pump and float switch installs by those who had/have no clue that there is wood in the keel stub. Once the wood gets wet it gets softer and softer until the keel nuts compress the wood enough to cause a "smile". The smile will not always mean a keel bolt leak but very often can.

The easiest way to determine the extent of the problem is with some keel stub core samples.. If you find moisture it would be a wise idea to do a keel re-set and remove the wood core.

I had a smile repair this spring during my haulout on a '90 C30 Mk II. Maybe more of a grin than a smile...the crack was under 1/8" and about 6-7" in length both sides of keel.

Yours was likely due to improper blocking, a grounding or keel bolts that needed to be re-torqued. By 1990 there was no wood in the stubs..

 

[fox islander]

...thanks for the info. I think I will do nothing in this for now, just had the grin (smile) repair a few months ago. I'll look at retorquing the keel nuts at next haulout.