slow boat!

[dlewis812]

slow boat! UPDATE

certainly made some tactical errors and could tweek the sails however continually coming in dead last way way behind the pack in races. even when on same line with sails trimmed same the other boats leave us behind. could it be anything about the boat? (keel etc?)

swing keel.. loose footed main

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9/30

thanks for all the info.. will certainly read the reccomendations for sail trim.

- bottom has not been cleaned since spring launch. going to throw on the wetsuit and go under. any recommendations for cleaning?

- have never had the rigging tension checked in the 4 yrs with the boat. going to purchase the wire tension gauge offered from catalina direct. have read the many threads regarding tension etc however any quick simple suggestions.

thanks!

 

[RichH]

Suggest you get a copy of "Sailing Smart" by Buddy Melges - racing tactics, boat speed and boat handling tips .... by one of the true 'masters'.

Other good 'texts':
Performance Racing Tactics
Performance Racing Trim by Bill Gladstone
both available through http://www.sfsailing.com (some of the chapters are available online at the sfsailing website)

 

[Franklin]

Lots of things can cause that, especially a dirty bottom. When was the last time you cleaned the bottom?

 

[John Nantz]

Check the bottom

I'd tag onto Franklins comment - check the bottom and make sure it is really clean. A bottom with scum will really slow a boat down.

You didn't mention if the boat is an inboard or outboard, but if it is an inboard a fixed-blade prop will cost you dearly in two ways: (1) boat speed, and, (2) leeway. If everything looks good above the waterline and the competition is tracking a higher angle that can be a sign that things below the waterline aren't the best.

My first book was "Race Your Boat Right" which was written by one of the then famous cup participants. It was also called "Race Your Boat Up-Right". Even though it is an old book, it still has concepts that are applicable, and it is a good read.

Lastly, but not least, don't feel like you're hexed. It's a matter of learning the details and tweaking things. When we got our first daysailor we were placing dead last out of East Greenwich, RI in a fleet of over 20 boats in our class. In fact, on the Wednesday night races we were coming in so late that nearly everybody had gone home and only a few lights were left on at the yacht club. Learning by talking to LOTS of people, watching other boats, reading books, you get the idea, we finished fourth in the Falcon Nationals that year which included the top three boats from all the fleets in the US and Canada.

In fact, there are two things that come to mind I'd mention. One of them was a crew I picked up, a lady who was the wife of a guy who had a trimaran that was racing in the multihulls and she was left to watch. She showed me a lot of things about how to tweak that little bit extra out of the boat. It was a light-wind day so it was a good training ground.

The other thing I'll never forget was what I picked up watching one of the boats in the Nationals that passed us to leeward when we were on a reach. They had their centerboard at about a 45-degree angle and it was clearly visible as they were heeled. A few seconds later I had our centerboard angled too and it made a noticeable difference. On a run the centerboard can come up all the way.

The devil is in the details but start with a clean bottom and no prop drag!

 

[Ted]

Slow Boat

The condition/age of your sails will make a huge difference in boat speed and pointing ability. Even if your sails are brand new, the way you trim them can make a night and day difference too. Clean and fair bottom and foils, proper sail trim, good reliable crew and smart tactics make for a winning combination. What kind of boat are you racing and and racing against? Is this a one design fleet or PHRF? If you have a shoal draft boat, don't expect to point as high as one with a deep draft. Your PHRF rating will compensate for the difference but you must sail your boat to its potential and not pinch to stay up with the rest of the fleet. There can be differences between one design boats that will make some faster than others but not to the extent that they will blow you away. I once knew of a boat that had absorbed so much water that it was sitting two inches lower that it's design water line. It was probably slower than identical dry boats, but sailed well by a skillful skipper and crew. They still managed to consistently finish in the top third of the fleet. How far behind the rest of the fleet are you finishing? We've all had similar experiences when we first started racing so don't get frustrated.

 

[Douglast]

Re: Slow Boat

i find im often slower as well....i found the perfect solution...the wife packs a little extra grub and coffee and we just enjoy it out there longer...lol..

 

[Prime Time]

Learn from others

Hi,
You should crew with some others to learn what they are doing.
Swing keels are not generally known for performance though.
Serious racers clean their bottom each week.
Sails make a huge difference
Rigging tension as well

 

[Mac Daddy]

Mabe your boat won't point like the ones your following. A common mistake is to point as high as you can. Play with your boat and see what works for it, if you have a GPS put in the marks and watch your VMG velocity made good. Sail a course with the fastest VMG. The fastest way between two points is not always the shortest distance. Learn all you can about the various sail shape controls you have and what effect they have on the sails. Good sails can make a world of a difference if your sails are bagged out.

 

[dlewis812]

Thanks For All The Advise!!

 

[jibes138]

Local Knowledge

I competed for a couple years in the annual around shelter island race that starts up in paconic bay in October. One year I was way ahead of a Tartan 34 as we started entering the bay to tack back up to the finish line, the Tartan ended up beating me by a considerable margin, the difference, currents. He knew exactly how to play the currents going up the bay and I had no local experience with same. He tacked way to the south entering the bay and I went to the north. Huge difference.

 

[5nuffy]

Re: slow boat! UPDATE

The most common error in sail trim is the tendency to over-trim the sails. Unless you are pointing up /beating into the wind or pointing down /running, you should first establish your heading - let the sail out until it begins to luff - then pull it in just enough where it does not luff - keep your heading for maximum performance. Re-adjust sails whenever you change heading or in gusty or variable wind conditions.

 

[dlewis812]

Re: slow boat! UPDATE

thanks again.. yes, really worked on that this past weekend. made a big difference. (and adjusting outhaul/vang etc)

 

[Richard Bryer]

Re: slow boat! UPDATE

All of the above advice is good- as someone said- winning is often not about doing one thing well or different it is the sum of a bunch of things done well. I found that the best thing that happened to me was getting a son-in-law who is a very good sailor and he taught me to always concentrate- you must be continually focused on getting every bit of speed and distance to the mark out of what ever wind you have.

 

[Joseph Shirley]

You should get someone to sail with you but the problem may not be you. If for example you are the slow boat in the fleet under PHRF and are sailing under time on distance you may be just not getting enough time. Time on distance is generally biased to fast (read Bigger) boats. Time on time is much more just, but is much more complex and most clubs prefer not to use it. For example: if a 27 footer has to give you 20 seconds a mile and the course is 10 miles long, he should give you 200 seconds. If however, you have to sail in light air at half your relative hull speeds, or sail at all in adverse current, or have to tack to work to windward, you could be sailing anywhere from 12 to 20 miles and he still only gives you 200 seconds and will beat you no matter how well you sail. There are exceptions however like when he sails into a hole and you carry the wind around him, or if the course is straight down wind in a favorable current, but the best position to be in is to be the fastest boat in your class.

Good Luck

Joe S

 

[bffatcat]

Its can be a lot of things bottom, rig tune, sails, crew, helmsmen to name a few It takes a while to get it right. Dont get discouraged, concentrate it will come

 

[william24424]

Improvements

I feel your pain.

I'm always in the back too. I've started bothering the leading PHRF guy (always top finisher) for advice, let's call him Mike Ryan sailing lets say "Sleigh Ride" He has an adjustable back stay and knows how to use it. He gave me local advice on current on second leg (but left out 1st leg strategy) Find the winner and recruit anyone who sails on his boat. Get some winners of other races on your boat. Good luck.