Hello all, I am in the middle of my rebuild of the Northern 25, and since I have the Bulkheads out, and the cabin gutted I wonder if turning this boat into a cutter would make sense? I would of course add an aluminum arch bulkhead to take the load. My INTENDED use of the boat is learning to sail, then exploring the Great Lakes, then set sail for Newfoundland, and perhaps further some other year. The Blue Water sailing will not happen until I am comfy with my knowledge and boat handling skills, say 2008, I should be ready. The thing that I like about having another forestay is being able to have a storm jib always at the ready, but the con I see is it will be a more complex rig, in the beginning anyway. Could I expect some gains in speed.... that is closer to est. hull speed? Damn another question: Hull speed, is that the theatrical max I can expect under sail, or is that the fastest the hull will travel on the water, regardless of power source (Motor / Sail)?
Sloop to Cutter, Pros v. Cons?
- Thread starter dwayne13628
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Cutter rig
I also sail a San Juan 24. I have heard of people rigging an inside headsail tacked to the downhaul padeye and run on the second forward halyard. Apparently is good for a bit more speed. Something I have always meant totry but never got around to it Not sure how it would affect helm- probably add a bit of lee helm. The designer ( in this case Bruce Kirby) balanced the sailplan for a conventional sloop rig with mast head jib so more sail up front is going to have some effect As I understand it, hull speed is the max speed you can get with that displacement hull unless you can figure a way to get it to plane. As in running down the backside of a good wave ( I have seen 9 knots on the SJ24 with the kite up and some 4 ft waves to surf down and a couple of very competent crew to fly the thing- I just drive the bus!)
I also sail a San Juan 24. I have heard of people rigging an inside headsail tacked to the downhaul padeye and run on the second forward halyard. Apparently is good for a bit more speed. Something I have always meant totry but never got around to it Not sure how it would affect helm- probably add a bit of lee helm. The designer ( in this case Bruce Kirby) balanced the sailplan for a conventional sloop rig with mast head jib so more sail up front is going to have some effect As I understand it, hull speed is the max speed you can get with that displacement hull unless you can figure a way to get it to plane. As in running down the backside of a good wave ( I have seen 9 knots on the SJ24 with the kite up and some 4 ft waves to surf down and a couple of very competent crew to fly the thing- I just drive the bus!)
BIG difference between a sloop and cutter ......
.... and its all in the where the mast is positioned. Having two headsails does not make a sloop a cutter. A sloops mast is much farther forward than a cutter. A sloops CE usually balances somewhere BEHIND the mast while a Cutter's CE usually balances in FRONT of the mast - usually in the staysail. There is no contest when it comes to 'versatility of sailplan' when it comes to cutters; but, that is really an old-fashioned design thats not really needed anymore since the advent of stable (dacron) sail materials. A sloop is absolutely capable of sailing all by itself in open ocean conditions, just as stable, just as versatile, etc. The Brits and other sailors who are located in 'aggressive' tide/wind venues seem to prefer a 'solent rig' - Two forestays, one behind one another, one preloaded with a normal-light wind foresail and the other already loaded with a sail for higher wind ranges. If you look at the top-end cruising boats by the 'top' designers you probably see more solent rigs nowadays, than cutters. Besides, the fractional rig sloop is probably more versatile becausee it can point much higher than a cutter; a cutter because the CE is so far forward usually 'struggles' to weather. Sloops are for pointing, cutters are for reaching. If you intend lots of 'downwind sailing' or a venue that involves mostly reaching (tradewinds) then a cutter rig will probably be best; but, if you are planing routes that involve a lot of pointing/beating then a fractional rig sloop is probably the best. Why fractional rig? Easier to control the rig (mast bending, etc.) , easier to drop down to very deep reefed main only sailing. less 'dancing on the pitching foredeck' with a smaller jib/genoa. Only drawback is the sloop doesnt go straight downwind very well (without a spinnaker) and needs to tack downwind at an angle (adverse helm problems) in HIGH winds, etc. I greatly admire your planned trip the 'rock' .... contains some the friendliest people on the planet in those 'outports'. Enjoy the backflies, bergy-bits & Seal flipper pie! My viewpoint is thoroughly strengthen what you have (running back stays, beef up the hull, rigging, separate trysail track on the mast, boom gallows, boat heater, etc. etc. etc. etc.) and GO.
.... and its all in the where the mast is positioned. Having two headsails does not make a sloop a cutter. A sloops mast is much farther forward than a cutter. A sloops CE usually balances somewhere BEHIND the mast while a Cutter's CE usually balances in FRONT of the mast - usually in the staysail. There is no contest when it comes to 'versatility of sailplan' when it comes to cutters; but, that is really an old-fashioned design thats not really needed anymore since the advent of stable (dacron) sail materials. A sloop is absolutely capable of sailing all by itself in open ocean conditions, just as stable, just as versatile, etc. The Brits and other sailors who are located in 'aggressive' tide/wind venues seem to prefer a 'solent rig' - Two forestays, one behind one another, one preloaded with a normal-light wind foresail and the other already loaded with a sail for higher wind ranges. If you look at the top-end cruising boats by the 'top' designers you probably see more solent rigs nowadays, than cutters. Besides, the fractional rig sloop is probably more versatile becausee it can point much higher than a cutter; a cutter because the CE is so far forward usually 'struggles' to weather. Sloops are for pointing, cutters are for reaching. If you intend lots of 'downwind sailing' or a venue that involves mostly reaching (tradewinds) then a cutter rig will probably be best; but, if you are planing routes that involve a lot of pointing/beating then a fractional rig sloop is probably the best. Why fractional rig? Easier to control the rig (mast bending, etc.) , easier to drop down to very deep reefed main only sailing. less 'dancing on the pitching foredeck' with a smaller jib/genoa. Only drawback is the sloop doesnt go straight downwind very well (without a spinnaker) and needs to tack downwind at an angle (adverse helm problems) in HIGH winds, etc. I greatly admire your planned trip the 'rock' .... contains some the friendliest people on the planet in those 'outports'. Enjoy the backflies, bergy-bits & Seal flipper pie! My viewpoint is thoroughly strengthen what you have (running back stays, beef up the hull, rigging, separate trysail track on the mast, boom gallows, boat heater, etc. etc. etc. etc.) and GO.
RichH
I have been sailing for a long time, and power boating before that. I have never "really" known the detailed difference between a sloop and a cutter. Thanks much for the info. Good explanation. BTW, I sail a sloop. Question: What is a Seal flipper pie? Is it really what the name implies? Is it good? and what are backflies, bergy-bits? I have had some dishes with really weird sounding names, or strange looking content, but sometimes they turned out really tasty. I just can't think about them while eating them. No, I have never had dog, monkey, eyeballs or the like. I do have to draw the line somewhere.
I have been sailing for a long time, and power boating before that. I have never "really" known the detailed difference between a sloop and a cutter. Thanks much for the info. Good explanation. BTW, I sail a sloop. Question: What is a Seal flipper pie? Is it really what the name implies? Is it good? and what are backflies, bergy-bits? I have had some dishes with really weird sounding names, or strange looking content, but sometimes they turned out really tasty. I just can't think about them while eating them. No, I have never had dog, monkey, eyeballs or the like. I do have to draw the line somewhere.
Blackflies: natures 'remedy' for mosquitos......
These are ultra-teeny to house sized voracious flies that chew their way into your skin to suck your blood. Usually when they are 'out' you dont have to worry about mosquitos since the skin surface is so covered with them that the poor mosquitos dont have any place to land. A face net or slathering oneself with thick layers of noxema skin cream will 'slow them down'. STaying directly downind of a heavily smoking large fire will work, sometimes. When the ice in the northern areas breaks up in early summer the northern bays of Nfld can get choked with the now free floating ice coming south on the Labrador current .... the smaller ones: bergy bits or broken/ground up pieces ice bergs. They usally dissapear between the end of spring and begining of fall which 'starts' about 3-4 weeks after the beginning of spring. BTW - Nice thing about the northern lats is that the days are soooooooooo long in midsummer. Best thing is no hordes of tourists, no PWCs, etc. etc. The bad thing is the polar bears which have no ice to hunt on, so you gotta be somewhat careful the further 'north' you go.
These are ultra-teeny to house sized voracious flies that chew their way into your skin to suck your blood. Usually when they are 'out' you dont have to worry about mosquitos since the skin surface is so covered with them that the poor mosquitos dont have any place to land. A face net or slathering oneself with thick layers of noxema skin cream will 'slow them down'. STaying directly downind of a heavily smoking large fire will work, sometimes. When the ice in the northern areas breaks up in early summer the northern bays of Nfld can get choked with the now free floating ice coming south on the Labrador current .... the smaller ones: bergy bits or broken/ground up pieces ice bergs. They usally dissapear between the end of spring and begining of fall which 'starts' about 3-4 weeks after the beginning of spring. BTW - Nice thing about the northern lats is that the days are soooooooooo long in midsummer. Best thing is no hordes of tourists, no PWCs, etc. etc. The bad thing is the polar bears which have no ice to hunt on, so you gotta be somewhat careful the further 'north' you go.
Seal Flipper Pie - a Nfld 'delicacy'
SEAL FLIPPER PIE SHOPPING LIST: baking soda, baking powder, carrots, flippers, flour, margarine, onion, pepper, salt, salt pork, turnip INGREDIENTS 2 flippers, 1 tbsp. baking soda, 2 tbsp flour, salt, pepper, 1/4 lb. salt pork cut into small cubes, 1 chopped onion, 2 diced carrots, 1 diced turnip. Pastry: 1/3 cup margarine, 2 cups flour, 2 tsp. baking powder, 1/2 tsp. salt, 2 or 3 tbsp. cold water. INSTRUCTIONS COOKING Soak the seal flippers for 1/2 hour in cold water to which 1 tbsp. of baking soda has been added. The fat will turn white. Remove all the fat. Mix 2 tbsp. of flour with salt and pepper Dredge the flippers with the flour mixture. CooK the salt pork in a fry pan. Fry the flippers until brown in the rendered salt pork fat. Add a little water and simmer until partly tender. Put the flippers in a roaster with the onion and the cubed carrot and turnip, and add 1 cup of water. Cover and bake at 350F degrees for 2 to 3 hours. Remove from oven and take flippers from roaster. Adding 1 1/2 cups of water to the roaster and stir well Add flour thickening (See recipe at the bottom,) and stir well until thicken to make gravy. Place the flippers back in the roaster and cover with pastry (See recipe at the bottom.) Bake at 400F for about 25 minutes until pastry is brown. Flour Thickening Take a small jar with a cover. Place 1/4 cup of cold water in the jar. On top of the water place 2 tbsp. of flour. Place the cover on the jar and shake until the mixture is smooth Add to liquid from meat to make it thicker. PASTRY Cut margarine into flour, baking powder, and salt until the mixture resembles bread crumbs. Sprinkle in water, 1 tbsp. at a time and mix. Gather the pastry into a ball and place on lightly floured board. Roll out the pastry to a thickness of about 1/2" to 3/4" and to the correct size to cover the flippers.
SEAL FLIPPER PIE SHOPPING LIST: baking soda, baking powder, carrots, flippers, flour, margarine, onion, pepper, salt, salt pork, turnip INGREDIENTS 2 flippers, 1 tbsp. baking soda, 2 tbsp flour, salt, pepper, 1/4 lb. salt pork cut into small cubes, 1 chopped onion, 2 diced carrots, 1 diced turnip. Pastry: 1/3 cup margarine, 2 cups flour, 2 tsp. baking powder, 1/2 tsp. salt, 2 or 3 tbsp. cold water. INSTRUCTIONS COOKING Soak the seal flippers for 1/2 hour in cold water to which 1 tbsp. of baking soda has been added. The fat will turn white. Remove all the fat. Mix 2 tbsp. of flour with salt and pepper Dredge the flippers with the flour mixture. CooK the salt pork in a fry pan. Fry the flippers until brown in the rendered salt pork fat. Add a little water and simmer until partly tender. Put the flippers in a roaster with the onion and the cubed carrot and turnip, and add 1 cup of water. Cover and bake at 350F degrees for 2 to 3 hours. Remove from oven and take flippers from roaster. Adding 1 1/2 cups of water to the roaster and stir well Add flour thickening (See recipe at the bottom,) and stir well until thicken to make gravy. Place the flippers back in the roaster and cover with pastry (See recipe at the bottom.) Bake at 400F for about 25 minutes until pastry is brown. Flour Thickening Take a small jar with a cover. Place 1/4 cup of cold water in the jar. On top of the water place 2 tbsp. of flour. Place the cover on the jar and shake until the mixture is smooth Add to liquid from meat to make it thicker. PASTRY Cut margarine into flour, baking powder, and salt until the mixture resembles bread crumbs. Sprinkle in water, 1 tbsp. at a time and mix. Gather the pastry into a ball and place on lightly floured board. Roll out the pastry to a thickness of about 1/2" to 3/4" and to the correct size to cover the flippers.
RE: BIG Diff. between Sloop and Cutter
Thanks Rich, I remember reading somewhere that the mast was not in the same location as the sloop. As for Newfies, yes me son, we are a humble bunch. My family is from a little wee town called Dildo, which is in Trinity Bay, the Avalon region of Newfoundland.
Thanks Rich, I remember reading somewhere that the mast was not in the same location as the sloop. As for Newfies, yes me son, we are a humble bunch. My family is from a little wee town called Dildo, which is in Trinity Bay, the Avalon region of Newfoundland.
I just love this post.
This post is great, learning so much about "things" in other countries. Seal flipper pie sounds interesting, but I don't think I will ever be able to find a place that serves them in the Pacific Northwest. Maybe someday. From the recipe, it sounded pretty good, maybe I can find a substute for the flippers. Also, now I know backflies, bergy-bits are not edible, but may get eaten or killed by them. Now, about that dildo in Trinity Bay, hmmmm..... I gotta think on that one a bit.
This post is great, learning so much about "things" in other countries. Seal flipper pie sounds interesting, but I don't think I will ever be able to find a place that serves them in the Pacific Northwest. Maybe someday. From the recipe, it sounded pretty good, maybe I can find a substute for the flippers. Also, now I know backflies, bergy-bits are not edible, but may get eaten or killed by them. Now, about that dildo in Trinity Bay, hmmmm..... I gotta think on that one a bit.
flipper pie
You should rent "Shipping News" and look at kevinSpacey's face when he first tries seal flipper pie t
You should rent "Shipping News" and look at kevinSpacey's face when he first tries seal flipper pie t
I saw that movie
You know, now that you've mentioned it, I sort of remember the scene where he was eating something weird, but couldn't remember what it was that he ate. Yeah, I will have to rent it again. You know, lot of things may sounds weird to us, but they are very tasty. There are probably lots of things we normally eat here in the US, but people from other countries may think it strange and weird. I remember knowing a guy from S Africa. We went out to lunch and he would not eat shrimp, or anything with shrimp in it. He says the shrimp eat the dead stuff on the bottom of the ocean, so yuck !
You know, now that you've mentioned it, I sort of remember the scene where he was eating something weird, but couldn't remember what it was that he ate. Yeah, I will have to rent it again. You know, lot of things may sounds weird to us, but they are very tasty. There are probably lots of things we normally eat here in the US, but people from other countries may think it strange and weird. I remember knowing a guy from S Africa. We went out to lunch and he would not eat shrimp, or anything with shrimp in it. He says the shrimp eat the dead stuff on the bottom of the ocean, so yuck !
cutters vs sloops
The earlier posts are correct that a cutter rig places the mast further forward. I suspect that without that initial design, the gains from adding a staysail might not be as advantageous. On the other hand, it adds options and a potential for storm sails and balance you might otherwise miss. Someone who knows your specific design should be able to address that. One of the advertised advantages is sail handling is easier because of the smaller sail size. I find that to be true, and worthwhile on a 37 foot cutter. That might not be an issue on smaller craft, but it certainly is on some of the new sloops with enormous mainsails. Either my wife or I can easily handle any of the sails on our boat. As for hull speed, that's a theoretical limit, and probably a parctical one as well.. Most of us have had the experience at some point of exceeding -- or at least appearing to exceed -- hull speed while under sail and/or power. That's thanks to a boost from wind, wave, engine or current. It's common to exceed hull speed over the ground due to a boost from current, but that hardly counts. I'll pass on the seal flippers, thanks, but they sound better than sea slugs. S.
The earlier posts are correct that a cutter rig places the mast further forward. I suspect that without that initial design, the gains from adding a staysail might not be as advantageous. On the other hand, it adds options and a potential for storm sails and balance you might otherwise miss. Someone who knows your specific design should be able to address that. One of the advertised advantages is sail handling is easier because of the smaller sail size. I find that to be true, and worthwhile on a 37 foot cutter. That might not be an issue on smaller craft, but it certainly is on some of the new sloops with enormous mainsails. Either my wife or I can easily handle any of the sails on our boat. As for hull speed, that's a theoretical limit, and probably a parctical one as well.. Most of us have had the experience at some point of exceeding -- or at least appearing to exceed -- hull speed while under sail and/or power. That's thanks to a boost from wind, wave, engine or current. It's common to exceed hull speed over the ground due to a boost from current, but that hardly counts. I'll pass on the seal flippers, thanks, but they sound better than sea slugs. S.
Sloop/Cutter Distinctives
Rich is right about placement of a cutter's mast being more abaft than the mast of a sloop. And it's because of this change in the Center of Effort that cutters won't point as high as sloops. All very good. A more apt description of a sloop with a forestay close inside the headstay is "double-headstay sloop". Still, making some mods to your sloop needn't crash just because of terminology. Adding an inner stay with a sail bagged and ready to fly is a good idea. It just depends on how you want to go about it. One way is to install a staysail stay that is deck mounted way back from the headstay, with its head attached at some fraction of the way up the mast. They normally do not interfere much with the headsail crossing the deck when tacking (or a little rolling up of the genny will be all that is required), and so are often permanently mounted, which makes keeping a bagged, ready-to-fly staysail hanked on at the deck practical. The staysail stay and the headstay are parallel to each other: their angles are the same. If you choose this course, usually running backstays are fitted to prevent the middle of the mast being bent out of column when that staysail stay flying the staysail pulls against it in heavy air. You still have a sloop. (A staysail sloop). Another way to achieve pretty much the same thing is to install a Solent Stay. This is a bit different, as the head of the stay is still attached at the masthead, but the foot is attached at some point well back from the stem. The Solent Stay, therefore, would have a more vertical angle than the headstay. The pro of this arrangement is that it does not require the rigging of running backstays, since the Solent Stay is mounted at the masthead, and won't be pulling at the middle of the mast. This makes it a much easier DIY project. The downsides to the Solent Stay is that it is useful through a narrower range of wind angles than a true staysail would be, and when tacking, rolling up some of the genny is now mandated. They are often fitted so as to be easily detached from the deck (usu. using a lever) and stored, sometimes with the sail hanked on, down near the mast, or outboard to a fitting next to a shroud, to get it out of the way when conditions don't require it, reverting you back to the tacking ease of an open foretriangle. Apparently the Solent Rig is seen more on the east side of the Atlantic. This link is to Jack Tyler's site, where he discusses modifications to his Pearson 424, Whoosh. The Solent Stay discussion and photos are very helpful when planing a similar mod. Hope this is helpful.
Rich is right about placement of a cutter's mast being more abaft than the mast of a sloop. And it's because of this change in the Center of Effort that cutters won't point as high as sloops. All very good. A more apt description of a sloop with a forestay close inside the headstay is "double-headstay sloop". Still, making some mods to your sloop needn't crash just because of terminology. Adding an inner stay with a sail bagged and ready to fly is a good idea. It just depends on how you want to go about it. One way is to install a staysail stay that is deck mounted way back from the headstay, with its head attached at some fraction of the way up the mast. They normally do not interfere much with the headsail crossing the deck when tacking (or a little rolling up of the genny will be all that is required), and so are often permanently mounted, which makes keeping a bagged, ready-to-fly staysail hanked on at the deck practical. The staysail stay and the headstay are parallel to each other: their angles are the same. If you choose this course, usually running backstays are fitted to prevent the middle of the mast being bent out of column when that staysail stay flying the staysail pulls against it in heavy air. You still have a sloop. (A staysail sloop). Another way to achieve pretty much the same thing is to install a Solent Stay. This is a bit different, as the head of the stay is still attached at the masthead, but the foot is attached at some point well back from the stem. The Solent Stay, therefore, would have a more vertical angle than the headstay. The pro of this arrangement is that it does not require the rigging of running backstays, since the Solent Stay is mounted at the masthead, and won't be pulling at the middle of the mast. This makes it a much easier DIY project. The downsides to the Solent Stay is that it is useful through a narrower range of wind angles than a true staysail would be, and when tacking, rolling up some of the genny is now mandated. They are often fitted so as to be easily detached from the deck (usu. using a lever) and stored, sometimes with the sail hanked on, down near the mast, or outboard to a fitting next to a shroud, to get it out of the way when conditions don't require it, reverting you back to the tacking ease of an open foretriangle. Apparently the Solent Rig is seen more on the east side of the Atlantic. This link is to Jack Tyler's site, where he discusses modifications to his Pearson 424, Whoosh. The Solent Stay discussion and photos are very helpful when planing a similar mod. Hope this is helpful.
Sorry,
After hitting the link, you will have to click on "Boat Modifications" to arrive at the relevant page.
After hitting the link, you will have to click on "Boat Modifications" to arrive at the relevant page.
double forestay?
No one has suggested just doubling the forestay. It wouldn't need as much extra re-inforcement as either a solent stay, or a "inner headstay". And if you've already got a suite of hank-on sails you don't have to modify them. What are the downsides of a doubled forestay?
No one has suggested just doubling the forestay. It wouldn't need as much extra re-inforcement as either a solent stay, or a "inner headstay". And if you've already got a suite of hank-on sails you don't have to modify them. What are the downsides of a doubled forestay?
"double forestay" clarification
By "double forestay" I mean two forestays attached side by side both at the stem and at the masthead.
By "double forestay" I mean two forestays attached side by side both at the stem and at the masthead.
Seal Flippers In The Spring Of The Year
From A Newf who done good and got off the rock take this advice. Unless you love the smell of liver cooking then do not cook seal flippers the smell is 10 times as stong and "stinks". Now give me a good feed of tickleass or turs or even a brace of rabbits and I'd be fine me son. Cliff Carter C-30 PlusOne
From A Newf who done good and got off the rock take this advice. Unless you love the smell of liver cooking then do not cook seal flippers the smell is 10 times as stong and "stinks". Now give me a good feed of tickleass or turs or even a brace of rabbits and I'd be fine me son. Cliff Carter C-30 PlusOne
My (almost) Cutter-rigged Sloop
My Venture 21' came to me with a second forestay rigged from a bale 3/4 of the way up the mast (same bolt as the lower shrouds) to a padeye about 2' aft of the bow. I have a 130 genny, which is used without a second jib in light air, a standard jib which is about 2' shorter than the forestay, and a cutter jib (if I may be allowed to call it that, RichH) which is about 2' shorter than the after forestay. I love this rig, though I've recently removed the after forestay and just haul the cutter jib up tight when I use it; it has a cable in the luff that takes the load just fine, and leaves the space open when I'm on the genny. Flexibility is key: I can put the small jib up on the forestay in heavy wind (sort of a storm jib) when the wind is high. Between that high-wind option and the low-wind genny, I've got a sloop rig and a double jibbed sloop rig. I've never had a lee helm in any configuration. and the Mudpuppy points just fine with both jibs up, thank you very much. And it looks cool. And it gives the kids more to do when they're out with me, which relieves their boredom factor. One more thing: hull speed is NOT a limit! It's a sharp spot in the curve (effort vs. speed) beyond which it takes significantly more power to go faster. See the graph (link). I can't believe anyone would think of hull speed as a limit beyond which your boat will not travel. And planing isn't required to exceed it. That usually shows as an actual break in the curve. Unless you define planing as going faster than the hull speed.
My Venture 21' came to me with a second forestay rigged from a bale 3/4 of the way up the mast (same bolt as the lower shrouds) to a padeye about 2' aft of the bow. I have a 130 genny, which is used without a second jib in light air, a standard jib which is about 2' shorter than the forestay, and a cutter jib (if I may be allowed to call it that, RichH) which is about 2' shorter than the after forestay. I love this rig, though I've recently removed the after forestay and just haul the cutter jib up tight when I use it; it has a cable in the luff that takes the load just fine, and leaves the space open when I'm on the genny. Flexibility is key: I can put the small jib up on the forestay in heavy wind (sort of a storm jib) when the wind is high. Between that high-wind option and the low-wind genny, I've got a sloop rig and a double jibbed sloop rig. I've never had a lee helm in any configuration. and the Mudpuppy points just fine with both jibs up, thank you very much. And it looks cool. And it gives the kids more to do when they're out with me, which relieves their boredom factor. One more thing: hull speed is NOT a limit! It's a sharp spot in the curve (effort vs. speed) beyond which it takes significantly more power to go faster. See the graph (link). I can't believe anyone would think of hull speed as a limit beyond which your boat will not travel. And planing isn't required to exceed it. That usually shows as an actual break in the curve. Unless you define planing as going faster than the hull speed.
Sloop to cutter?
Originally, a cutter was defined as having its mast located at least 40% of the lwl aft of the forward end of the lwl. Boats had low aspect mains, small foretriangles, fractional rigs and no lapping foresails. The Italian racing yacht "Genoa" changed that: masts got taller and moved back, forestays went to the top of the mast (or "jib"). Today, almost all small sailing craft are cutters. Number of headsails doesn't enter into it. I think you'd find that an inner staysail on a boat under 45' is not worth the trouble. They are effective over a very limited range of headings, and are not a big improvement over your forestay for a storm jib, either.
Originally, a cutter was defined as having its mast located at least 40% of the lwl aft of the forward end of the lwl. Boats had low aspect mains, small foretriangles, fractional rigs and no lapping foresails. The Italian racing yacht "Genoa" changed that: masts got taller and moved back, forestays went to the top of the mast (or "jib"). Today, almost all small sailing craft are cutters. Number of headsails doesn't enter into it. I think you'd find that an inner staysail on a boat under 45' is not worth the trouble. They are effective over a very limited range of headings, and are not a big improvement over your forestay for a storm jib, either.
A staysail IS of great benefit .....
Sorry Ed but I disagree and the supporting documentation URL is at the end of this post ..... Perhaps its just that most 'vogue authors' really dont undersatnd the aerodynamics involved with staysails. 1. No one can deny the additional power delivered by a staysail when reaching (a cutter by design is a 'reaching' boat) .... many of the top of the line racing sleds are now mounting 'staysails'. 2. A staysail on a beat (even when not 'visibly drawing') adds aero efficiency by reducing mast turbulance (hence better main efficiency) and definitely adds upwash to the jib/genoa. The downside is that a staysail is 'bitch to trim' especially since the aerodynamics of thin foils/sails is impossible on a 'perception' or 'intuition' basis. Sorry but when the weather is stink, Ill take a self tacking bladed staysail over a jib any day of the week, especially if flown from a vanged boom. see http://www.arvelgentry.com/magaz/The_Double_Head_Rig.pdf
Sorry Ed but I disagree and the supporting documentation URL is at the end of this post ..... Perhaps its just that most 'vogue authors' really dont undersatnd the aerodynamics involved with staysails. 1. No one can deny the additional power delivered by a staysail when reaching (a cutter by design is a 'reaching' boat) .... many of the top of the line racing sleds are now mounting 'staysails'. 2. A staysail on a beat (even when not 'visibly drawing') adds aero efficiency by reducing mast turbulance (hence better main efficiency) and definitely adds upwash to the jib/genoa. The downside is that a staysail is 'bitch to trim' especially since the aerodynamics of thin foils/sails is impossible on a 'perception' or 'intuition' basis. Sorry but when the weather is stink, Ill take a self tacking bladed staysail over a jib any day of the week, especially if flown from a vanged boom. see http://www.arvelgentry.com/magaz/The_Double_Head_Rig.pdf
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