Slipping through a tack

[JoshGray]

Hope some of you guys with more experience can help me out there. I took my shoal keel 22 out to the lake yesterday and had a frustrating experience trying to make way to weather.

I sailed off the dock with a reefed main into a semi-protected channel about 80-100 yards across. To clear the channel an make the main waterbody I needed to sail to about 500 yards to weather up the channel.

I could make about 50 or so yards up the channel on one tack. Then, I would turn for the tack, the sail wouldn't "catch" close to the wind and the boat would drift through nearly a 100 or more degree turn before the boat would finally sail, then I could head up more and trim. The problem here is that in the time elapsed from initiating the turn, stalling through the turn, falling too far off the wind, and finally getting back close-hauled... the boat will have drifted down the channel and lost nearly all of the headway made on the previous tack.

I suspected we were underpowered and pulled out some of my 155 genoa until it was about the same size as a 100 (though obviously the physics weren't the same). This made the problem worse as the foresail would fill too late and exacerbate the drifting backwards. Several time we had to fall completely off and jibe to avoid crashing into the docks/shore. Think "wearing ship" in the opposite direction!

At one point I seriously considered poking around underneath the boat to make sure we still had a keel! Haha! In the end I cranked up the motor and cleared the channel under "iron sail" From there on the boat seemed to tack fine although it was much harder to distinguish how much we had "slipped" through these tacks because of the distance to any landmarks.

Any ideas? I know that it was user error and most humbly accept your advice.

Cheers,

 

[Joe11688]

Clawing to weather

Josh,
It's pretty tough to claw to weather under a reefed main and stub keel. My boat doesn't tack as well with a reefed main and centerboard down as it does under just a full main with no Gennie. A lot of times I've been able to just claw my way through a narrow passage with a full main and head up in the puffs instead of letting off the main sheet. I'm not sure if the O'Day 22 can do this, as I've never sailed one with a stubby keel. The centerboard on my boat really makes a difference. I found that out one morning as I was trying to claw my way off Menemsha on Martha's Vineyard on a windy day, and forgot to lower my centerboard. When I finally got it down, she clawed right out. Dave's advice may help you out on this, if not, you may have to try to experiment under these conditions and see what you come up with. Keels make a big difference. A friend of mine who lives on the river owns a Pearson 23-C. C is for Cat boat. They only built about 44 of them and it doesn't really look like a conventional cat boat. It resembles a sloop with one big Marconi sail on a free standing spun aluminum mast, and drafts 4' with a fin keel. This boat can go to weather closer than any sloop that I've ever seen, and she's faster than my boat even with my main and Gennie up. It's a trade-off though. He can't go into shallow coves the way we can with our O'Day sloops.
Joe

 

[JoshGray]

Ol' Stubby Clawing to Weather

Thanks for the advice Dave and Joe.

I've learned how to backwind the foresail through a tack the way you suggested Dave. In fact, it's the only way that I can consistently get the big 155 across the bow in light air. This time however, when the backwinded jib cleared the foretriangle and was trimmed on the appropriate side it would just spin the boat like a top. I think that the main problem was boat speed, as you suggested, Dave. We just got completely stalled and lost the forward momentum that would've allowed for the appropriate apparent wind direction to work for our desired course, at least until we could regain speed and head up. And since we were stalled beam-to-wind the high freeboard and current slipped us right back down the channel.

Joe, I am able to pinch with a full main upwind if it is puffy. It invariably is where I sail, so I've gotten comfortable with easing both the main and gennie in gusts. I should've just hoisted the full main and given myself some more speed. It was particularly gusty, even in the protected parking lot, so I chose to put a reef in. It was my first reefing attempt! I had been wanting to make sure I could put one in and was curious to see how the boat would behave in low gear. I wonder if a more substantial keel, or centerboard, would've helped me since the boat wasn't moving very fast. Would it resist the twisting motion anymore than a stub keel when the boat speed is very low? Does a longer foil allow you to attain higher speeds? I am really beginning to wish that I had a CB. You're right though, we can sneak our little sloops into the smallest of coves.

Thanks again for the advice.

Cheers,

 

[Joe11688]

The keel makes a difference

Josh,
The keel really makes a big difference, but does that mean you should buy a boat with a keel centerboard? No. It only means that some boats have certain limitations. It's a trade off. I think that a 155% Gennie is way to big for our 22' boats. I have a 125% Gennie on mine. I received some emails from a guy named Tony who lives in Niantic Connecticut. He bought an O'Day 22 stubby keel off a private party in Michigan. He only saw pictures of it. The last boat he had was an O'Day 23 and he gave it to his son who live in Rhode Island. He had previously owned an O'Day 22 short mast stubby keel, and kicked himself for selling it. So he wanted to buy another one. It took 16 hours on the road for some outfit to deliver it to him, and when he got it he was happy because this boat was better than he expected. Tony is like me, he loves to get out and sail a little bit and just hang out in his boat on the hook. We're not interested in speed or performance as much as we're interested in just the fun of having the boat and using it. Tony told me that he loves this boat because the mast can make it under a bridge in his area and the stubby keel allows him to go into shallow waters where other boats can't go. I think these are good reasons for wanting to own an O'Day 22 stubby keel sloop, don't you? Here's a picture of Tony's O'Day 22. Isn't she a beauty?
Joe

 

[JoshGray]

tradeoffs

Tony's 22 looks great! I completely understand what you're saying about the limitations and tradeoffs of boat designs. The 22 fits my sailing style perfectly right now. I love the ability to take 3 other folks out on the water comfortably and futz about. I spent a lot of time at anchor and swimming and bird watching this summer (ospreys and bald eagles!). I bought it as a boat to learn how to sail on, and for that it seems pretty good. I would really like to have a proper mainsheet/traveler setup however, but the high cost isn't worth it. I also think that the 155 is way too big for the boat. It's a decksweeper (I don't have lifelines) so it's fun upwind as tight as it will go, but really has trouble holding shape on reaches in lighter wind. I'd love to have a standard jib for her. I know the 22's aren't performance machines, and I don't even think I could handle one right now, all of the reasons you listed for owning a stubby winnegabo boat are great and I would also add that they trailer and launch well.

 

[LordNelson]

swing keel down?

you didn't mention whether you were sailing with the swing keel up or down? sounds like it may have been was up.

my oday 20 does not like to come about with the swing keel up. it does not want to turn through the wind. yesterday i had plenty of wind on my stern quarter had retracted the board rathe than have it flopping as i was not worried about side slip. it would still not come about, however, when i tried and had to drop the keel to make the change in tack.

with the swing keel down, i usually don't have any trouble if i have any steerage at all, unless i'm trying to eat peanuts or something.

 

[Kevin]

swing keel

Josh:

I had a similar situation about 4 weeks ago in my O'day 23. I was trying to get to a small inlet to our dock. There's a small island and about 100 yards to the lake bank between me and the inlet.

Instead of going around the island and swinging into our inlet, I tried to tack between the bank and island.

Every time I tried to tack, by the time the jib and mainsail filled...

#1: My boat would be on a beam reach and not make any forward movement because we turned too much AND
#2: The current/wind would move the boat back.

I had the centerboard up on the 23 because the depth was around 5' or 6'.

By the way, it was the 2nd time on my boat...so I'm not an expert.
We ended up giving up and sailing around the island.


By the way, I used to live in Carrboro, NC. I was there 92-96 while going to UNC. Haven't been there since then, but I hear a lot has changed.

Kevin

 

[JoshGray]

Thanks for the advice

Unfortunately, this boat does not have a swing keel. Just the fixed stubby "shoal keel"

Kevin, I'm a grad student at UNC (was an undergrad there as well). I lived in Carrboro for several years. I don't know what it was like in the mid-90's, so it's hard to say what's changed. The whole Triangle area is getting huge, Raleigh Durham and Chapel Hill have grown into each other and it's rapidly going west towards Mebane and Burlington. My wife and I bought a house in Hillsborough last year. Five years ago Hillsborough was the "new frontier" of the area, now it is well within the sphere of the triangle. I think it was a sound investment.

 

[Joe11688]

Hey Josh!

I have a childhood buddy who lives near Elizabeth City in a place called Camden. His name is Tom Moody and he's the nephew of the late Ralph Moody of Holman and Moody Racing fame that was located in Charlotte NC. Tommy has an Auto repair shop right in Camden. His late Uncle Ralph, grew up in my neighborhood and became a famous Midget Racing driver. I went down to Charlotte to visit him with Tommy in the 1960s, and toured the Holman and Moody Racing plant and grounds.
Joe

 

[JoshGray]

racin'

Joe, racing (or, racen') is pretty big around here. The NASCAR guys get pretty into it. I think the races are fun, but I prefer the Indy series. Just what you grew up with I guess. The Midgets are great fun! The night before the Indy 500 there are midget/bandit/gocart races at a dirt track close to the stadium. When I was much younger I really wanted to race go-karts and work my way up to Indy cars. Hahaha, too many hobbies!

 

[Joe11688]

Racin'

Josh,
I never got interested in racing, myself. I was interested in boats, canoes, hunting, fishing, and the outdoors. I was always a guitar player too. Right now, it's the guitar, PCs, and my sailboat. Who knows what it will be later.
Smooth Sailing!
Joe