I own a Hunter 28 1990 and our skylight that is directly apt of the mast continues to have a leak. I have taken it out twice. I cleaned all the old caulk and cleaned the recess opening with achol. I cleaned the smoke plexiglass with soap and water. After this, I sanded the opening with 80 grit sand paper, and sanded the underside of the window for good adhesion. I purchased the Dow Corning caulk from Hunter number 795 that they recommended. I still get a leak in the corner. Any ideas? I was going to purchase another window and begin again.
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What not to try
I'm in the same boat. Well, not really, but anyway, I have the same problem on my 30 with skylites on port and starboard. Don't try 5200, it worked for a while on the starboard side but is leaking again after 6 months - besides, it is very messy stuff and will get tracked all over your boat. I tried 4200 on the port side and now it's leaking worse than before. I tried silicone to go over both products and they still leak. I even tried creaping crack sealer - still leaks. I'm torn on my next attempt, but I'm thinking about using a rubber strip surounded by regular caulk or automobile window sealer surounded by caulk. The problem here is the heat. The sealers shear with the expansion & contraction and you can see the crack develop around the plastic in a few days. I've also filled the stripped screw holes and gone so far as to seal over the screw heads to eliminate that potential. Let's hope the 3rd time is the charm for both of us.
I'm in the same boat. Well, not really, but anyway, I have the same problem on my 30 with skylites on port and starboard. Don't try 5200, it worked for a while on the starboard side but is leaking again after 6 months - besides, it is very messy stuff and will get tracked all over your boat. I tried 4200 on the port side and now it's leaking worse than before. I tried silicone to go over both products and they still leak. I even tried creaping crack sealer - still leaks. I'm torn on my next attempt, but I'm thinking about using a rubber strip surounded by regular caulk or automobile window sealer surounded by caulk. The problem here is the heat. The sealers shear with the expansion & contraction and you can see the crack develop around the plastic in a few days. I've also filled the stripped screw holes and gone so far as to seal over the screw heads to eliminate that potential. Let's hope the 3rd time is the charm for both of us.
Hunter was right. Use the silicone stuff, BUT
Silicone will not stick to cured silicone. The old stuff must be removed. And just because you scraped the surface with a razor scraper doesn't mean it all came off. It's still there. Start to sand the surface and you will see the film. And that film is all it takes to spoil the new installation. Sand, Sand, Sand or try some of this stuff and report back to us. http://www.amtexchemical.com/pages/1/page1.html?refresh=1067351487284
Silicone will not stick to cured silicone. The old stuff must be removed. And just because you scraped the surface with a razor scraper doesn't mean it all came off. It's still there. Start to sand the surface and you will see the film. And that film is all it takes to spoil the new installation. Sand, Sand, Sand or try some of this stuff and report back to us. http://www.amtexchemical.com/pages/1/page1.html?refresh=1067351487284
Joe , me too
This will be my forth time trying to fix the skylight. To make matter worst, if water is leaking in it is getting into to wood core. These skylights SUCK and Hunter still install them. Well, I guess you know what kind of boat I'll never buy again!
This will be my forth time trying to fix the skylight. To make matter worst, if water is leaking in it is getting into to wood core. These skylights SUCK and Hunter still install them. Well, I guess you know what kind of boat I'll never buy again!
Do not use 5200
that is the worst thing you could do! It will never come off. You might be able to cut is out with a rasor knife. Hunter says to use... Dow Corning 795 Black caulk
that is the worst thing you could do! It will never come off. You might be able to cut is out with a rasor knife. Hunter says to use... Dow Corning 795 Black caulk
Not much help, but from Hunter
I almost bought a new H38 but na! I am not going through this again! Preperation of Deck. Embossment Fig. 1 1. Make sure the window embossments were sanded properly, there should be No shiny areas. Preparation Of Plexiglas Windows Fig. 2 1. Sand the outside edge of the window with 80 grit sandpaper to remove hairs from the window and paper. 2. Remove the paper from the inside of the plexiglas window. (Beveled edge side) 3. Have someone hold the window in the deck embossment making sure the window is centered in the embossment. 4. From the inside of the deck mark the window opening onto the window with a pencil. From the outside of the deck mark the mounting hole locations onto the deck. 5. Remove the window and drill the marked mounting locations with a 5/32” drill bit. 6. On the inside of the window sand the area outside of the marked line with 80 grit sandpaper. (There should be No shiny areas.) 7. Clean the sanded area of the deck with acetone and the window with a clean dry rag to remove any debris. Installation Of Plexiglas Window Fig. 3 1. Apply a thick layer of 795 caulk in the window embossments making sure there are no voids or gaps (no white from deck should be showing). 2. Apply a thin layer of caulk on the sanded area of the plexi-glass window, being sure to cover the entire area. 3. Press the window in place and secure it to the deck using the designated fasteners. (Note: These fasteners will be removed and the holes caulked in the final stage.) 4. Clean up excess caulk with soapy water (inside and outside).
I almost bought a new H38 but na! I am not going through this again! Preperation of Deck. Embossment Fig. 1 1. Make sure the window embossments were sanded properly, there should be No shiny areas. Preparation Of Plexiglas Windows Fig. 2 1. Sand the outside edge of the window with 80 grit sandpaper to remove hairs from the window and paper. 2. Remove the paper from the inside of the plexiglas window. (Beveled edge side) 3. Have someone hold the window in the deck embossment making sure the window is centered in the embossment. 4. From the inside of the deck mark the window opening onto the window with a pencil. From the outside of the deck mark the mounting hole locations onto the deck. 5. Remove the window and drill the marked mounting locations with a 5/32” drill bit. 6. On the inside of the window sand the area outside of the marked line with 80 grit sandpaper. (There should be No shiny areas.) 7. Clean the sanded area of the deck with acetone and the window with a clean dry rag to remove any debris. Installation Of Plexiglas Window Fig. 3 1. Apply a thick layer of 795 caulk in the window embossments making sure there are no voids or gaps (no white from deck should be showing). 2. Apply a thin layer of caulk on the sanded area of the plexi-glass window, being sure to cover the entire area. 3. Press the window in place and secure it to the deck using the designated fasteners. (Note: These fasteners will be removed and the holes caulked in the final stage.) 4. Clean up excess caulk with soapy water (inside and outside).
OK, a simple point.
If you don't understand the principals of this repair/maintenance, hire out the work. I don't know where those procedures came from and they seem to refer to illustrations, but they made perfect sense, if you know how to do this job right.
If you don't understand the principals of this repair/maintenance, hire out the work. I don't know where those procedures came from and they seem to refer to illustrations, but they made perfect sense, if you know how to do this job right.
Join the Club!
Took me 3 tries on my '88 33.5. I know what the problem is, the solution is tougher. I could see the problem immediately and I'm not a marine architect! The plex expands and contracts at a different rate than the fiberglass, and the flange is set down into the deck so the water has nowhere to go but in.
Took me 3 tries on my '88 33.5. I know what the problem is, the solution is tougher. I could see the problem immediately and I'm not a marine architect! The plex expands and contracts at a different rate than the fiberglass, and the flange is set down into the deck so the water has nowhere to go but in.
Yep,
That's why it's vital to only use silicone. It flexes and sticks to everything, except cured silicone.
That's why it's vital to only use silicone. It flexes and sticks to everything, except cured silicone.
silicone does not work either
Silicone split right down the seem too. Absolutely, it's 2 different materials in 2 different colours (white & black in my case) expanding and contracting at 2 different rates. I'll tell you what, I'm going to try the rubber seal w/ caulk over the next couple of weeks, take pics of the process and I'll report back. Following factory procedures to repeat what failed in the first place doesn't make sense to me - to the drawing board!
Silicone split right down the seem too. Absolutely, it's 2 different materials in 2 different colours (white & black in my case) expanding and contracting at 2 different rates. I'll tell you what, I'm going to try the rubber seal w/ caulk over the next couple of weeks, take pics of the process and I'll report back. Following factory procedures to repeat what failed in the first place doesn't make sense to me - to the drawing board!
Tim,
Refer to my 'simple point' prior post. And how about a picture? And refer to my 'Hunter was right' post. And how about a picture? The whole reason for using silicone is because of the different expansion rates of the two materials. Well, another is that silicone has a unlimited life when exposed to UV. That's 'unlimited' as in 'no one knows how long silicone will last' None of it has ever died under UV.
Refer to my 'simple point' prior post. And how about a picture? And refer to my 'Hunter was right' post. And how about a picture? The whole reason for using silicone is because of the different expansion rates of the two materials. Well, another is that silicone has a unlimited life when exposed to UV. That's 'unlimited' as in 'no one knows how long silicone will last' None of it has ever died under UV.
What the heck. . .
Well, I must be an idiot then. If only I had read your "simple" lesson better, I'd be much better off and every boat would be dry. By the way, the life expectancy of silicone in this kind of sun, heat, & application is about 2 weeks. Maybe in WA, it's a few lifetimes. As I said, I'm going to experiment on another way of doing it and I'll report back - with pictures Freddy.
Well, I must be an idiot then. If only I had read your "simple" lesson better, I'd be much better off and every boat would be dry. By the way, the life expectancy of silicone in this kind of sun, heat, & application is about 2 weeks. Maybe in WA, it's a few lifetimes. As I said, I'm going to experiment on another way of doing it and I'll report back - with pictures Freddy.
Dow Corning 795
...is a silicone building sealant and is what Hunter uses and recommends. It's not the same as regular residential silicone caulking found at places like HD or WM. 795 is a commercial product used to hold highrise windows in place. Use the Dow Corning primer with the 795 for better adhesion. I used it last year to replace all of the fixed windows on my Hunter. I don't have any leaks.
...is a silicone building sealant and is what Hunter uses and recommends. It's not the same as regular residential silicone caulking found at places like HD or WM. 795 is a commercial product used to hold highrise windows in place. Use the Dow Corning primer with the 795 for better adhesion. I used it last year to replace all of the fixed windows on my Hunter. I don't have any leaks.
Have Adhesion on Edges - NOT Bottom
A watertight solution to the fixed skylights requires what is known as an "engineered solution". The name of what I use is "DOW CORNING® 995 Silicone Structural Adhesive". Hunter uses Dow 795 but you can use what you want but I prefer the "industrial grade". In any event, the important part is you can't just slap the parts together and squirt sealant on all over the place - it won't work. The sealant is NOT designed nor suposed to act as a glue; it's supposed to act like a rubber band, to expand and contract, and this is a totally different concept for some do-it-yourselfers. What Fred said about sanding the edges of the two surfaces is spot on. The sealant is supposed to stick to the EDGE of the plexiglass and the EDGE of the coachroof - not the BOTTOM of the plexiglass or the part of the coachroof which the plexiglass rests on. The above is predicated on the fact Dow sealant is being used because this is according to their product literature. If you use something else then use read (I know, this is anti-mail gene stuff) their literature if you want to apply it properly. Tim: for life expectancy I recommend using BLACK (not white) as it lasts longer. Joe: If you decide to go this route then don't use soap and water to clean the surfaces unless you sand (Fred's way) afterward. Leak in corner recommendations: Have no clue what the problem is but one thing for sure is that screw holes are the root cause of probably 95% of all leaks. Reason: there is no way to have the proper clearance for the sealant to work properly. Loose fiting/larger holes are better than tight fitting/smaller holes but even then the holes are a problem area. Fewer/none is better. Use Backer rod under the sealant and between the skylight and coach roof to keep the sealant from flowing down. On top, tape off with blue masking tape the area where you want the sealant. Remove the tape before the sealant cures - this is a function of temperature but 30 min to a couple hours would be the approx. window. Try one strip and see if it's okay first. Clean up 996 with alcohol like stove fuel. Don't use MEK or acetone - not needed. Bump-ons: Order these from Hunter or buy soemthing at the hardware store. The ones Hunter uses are self-sticking neoprene squares probably 1-mm thick and about 3/8-in square (based on memory). The size isn't particularly critical but you don'w want them too thick. Remember, read (and understand) the appropriate manufacturers product literature! The 995 is designed for skyscraper glazing so you have to adjust for your project accordingly. Hope this helps.
A watertight solution to the fixed skylights requires what is known as an "engineered solution". The name of what I use is "DOW CORNING® 995 Silicone Structural Adhesive". Hunter uses Dow 795 but you can use what you want but I prefer the "industrial grade". In any event, the important part is you can't just slap the parts together and squirt sealant on all over the place - it won't work. The sealant is NOT designed nor suposed to act as a glue; it's supposed to act like a rubber band, to expand and contract, and this is a totally different concept for some do-it-yourselfers. What Fred said about sanding the edges of the two surfaces is spot on. The sealant is supposed to stick to the EDGE of the plexiglass and the EDGE of the coachroof - not the BOTTOM of the plexiglass or the part of the coachroof which the plexiglass rests on. The above is predicated on the fact Dow sealant is being used because this is according to their product literature. If you use something else then use read (I know, this is anti-mail gene stuff) their literature if you want to apply it properly. Tim: for life expectancy I recommend using BLACK (not white) as it lasts longer. Joe: If you decide to go this route then don't use soap and water to clean the surfaces unless you sand (Fred's way) afterward. Leak in corner recommendations: Have no clue what the problem is but one thing for sure is that screw holes are the root cause of probably 95% of all leaks. Reason: there is no way to have the proper clearance for the sealant to work properly. Loose fiting/larger holes are better than tight fitting/smaller holes but even then the holes are a problem area. Fewer/none is better. Use Backer rod under the sealant and between the skylight and coach roof to keep the sealant from flowing down. On top, tape off with blue masking tape the area where you want the sealant. Remove the tape before the sealant cures - this is a function of temperature but 30 min to a couple hours would be the approx. window. Try one strip and see if it's okay first. Clean up 996 with alcohol like stove fuel. Don't use MEK or acetone - not needed. Bump-ons: Order these from Hunter or buy soemthing at the hardware store. The ones Hunter uses are self-sticking neoprene squares probably 1-mm thick and about 3/8-in square (based on memory). The size isn't particularly critical but you don'w want them too thick. Remember, read (and understand) the appropriate manufacturers product literature! The 995 is designed for skyscraper glazing so you have to adjust for your project accordingly. Hope this helps.
Primer
With regard to Monty's comment about primer - that is a good note. Dow does have such a product that they recommend for use with their sealant. I didn't mention it (it's probably referenced in the link I provided in my previous post) because it costs more and must be used exactly according to the directions. If it isn't used properly the results won't be that satisfying if you know what I mean. These products (995 and primer) are available from Distributors that supply the commercial glazing trade. If you get the product from one of them then talk to the guy behind the counter (assuming he's more than just an order taker) and see what he says. Also, one can call the Dow company tech rep. for an opinion - that's what I did and he recommended I go without the primer for the above reasons. Note the tech rep. I talked to was different from my phone notes below. Oh, and in the interest of honesty, my aft port skylight just developed a leak two weeks ago but it's been far more than four years since I recaulked it. My phone notes: Technical Service (800) 521-3168 Recommended CO or a heavy degreaser like Brake Cleaner. [forgot what was meant by "CO"] 26 Oct 2001 Dow Corning Corporation Midland, MI 48686 Phone: 800-248-2481
With regard to Monty's comment about primer - that is a good note. Dow does have such a product that they recommend for use with their sealant. I didn't mention it (it's probably referenced in the link I provided in my previous post) because it costs more and must be used exactly according to the directions. If it isn't used properly the results won't be that satisfying if you know what I mean. These products (995 and primer) are available from Distributors that supply the commercial glazing trade. If you get the product from one of them then talk to the guy behind the counter (assuming he's more than just an order taker) and see what he says. Also, one can call the Dow company tech rep. for an opinion - that's what I did and he recommended I go without the primer for the above reasons. Note the tech rep. I talked to was different from my phone notes below. Oh, and in the interest of honesty, my aft port skylight just developed a leak two weeks ago but it's been far more than four years since I recaulked it. My phone notes: Technical Service (800) 521-3168 Recommended CO or a heavy degreaser like Brake Cleaner. [forgot what was meant by "CO"] 26 Oct 2001 Dow Corning Corporation Midland, MI 48686 Phone: 800-248-2481
Thanks Monte....
.... maybe I should have listened to "the other" tech rep and used the primer? At least on the one problem skylight. Spending a few bucks vs. having to redo a job like this is money in the bank. And one other note for those on the great Northwest - the stuff works down to really cold temperatures (good) but the surfaces are are required to be DRY (bad)!!! That means, according to today's weather forcast, you have about three more days to get your skylights fixed or wait until next May!
.... maybe I should have listened to "the other" tech rep and used the primer? At least on the one problem skylight. Spending a few bucks vs. having to redo a job like this is money in the bank. And one other note for those on the great Northwest - the stuff works down to really cold temperatures (good) but the surfaces are are required to be DRY (bad)!!! That means, according to today's weather forcast, you have about three more days to get your skylights fixed or wait until next May!
Good stuff John.
I wish I'd had some of your info when I did the work. But my research did lead to #795. I used it for my four Bomar hatches and the fixed side cabin windows. The nine opening ports got GE silicone from HD. (their best) Not a leak anywhere. But it's only been two years. Tim, it's been my experience that when people call me Freddy that I've pissed them off. Sorry. *sry I'm just trying to help.
I wish I'd had some of your info when I did the work. But my research did lead to #795. I used it for my four Bomar hatches and the fixed side cabin windows. The nine opening ports got GE silicone from HD. (their best) Not a leak anywhere. But it's only been two years. Tim, it's been my experience that when people call me Freddy that I've pissed them off. Sorry. *sry I'm just trying to help.
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