Size vs Quality

[Cambo]

I'm in the market for a new boat and trying to decide what I want. We currently sail a Bayfield 25 which we enjoy and find to have a good amount of room for us although we would love a private head and a better performing boat.

We do lots of evening sails after work, spend many weekends on board and plan on doing a couple week long trips per summer. It is usually just 2 of us aboard with some friends the odd time for day sail.

I've found a variety of boats that would suit our needs but I can't quite narrow it down.

I have found some beautiful well built boats in great shape around the 27 foot range and then some mass produced 30-34 footers that are not as nice for quite a bit more money.

I realize it is different for everyone but would like to hear some other opinions about buying a smaller nicer more unique boat vs a larger run of the mill boat for possibly double the money. Does size really matter that much?

 

[whatfiero]

Size

Go ahead and get a 50' er or bigger then you won't have to worry about moving up again in a few years. Old boat if enjoy the maintaince and repair thing and new if you do not.

 

[Stretch]

Hi Cambo
I spent many summers at Kilbear Park and remember the Black Back Door, in Parry Sound.

which beautiful well built 27ft boat catches your eye the most ?

Are you considering an open stern modern style, and is speed in light air an issue ?

Fair winds

 

[RECESS]

Owning a used boat that was part of a large production run can be very beneficial when repairs come up, whether you are doing it yourself, or paying to have it done.

 

[Cambo]

Whatfiero: I wish I could pull it off but that will have to wait a few years. I do enjoy the maintenance just don't want to spend more time working on the boat then sailing it.

Stretch: Killbear is a beautiful place! I camped there for the first 24 years of my life and then took a job in Parry Sound last spring and traded the 3hr drive for a short sail across the sound!

I'm not really looking at modern boats. Having a new house and a wedding to pay for this summer I'm trying to limit my budget to $20K. I know I said I was looking for better performance, but that is just about any boat out there when you come from a bayfield 25! Comfort, safety and reliability is the priority.

A couple boats that that have caught my attention are an Aloha 27, C&C 27's and a Hullmaster 27. I have not seen any in person yet though. They all range from $10-12k which would be ideal.

On the higher end, around $20K there is a Hunter 31 and some C&C 29's that seem nice.

Recess: That is a good point that I didn't think of! I would imagine the hunter would have lots of parts available. My main concern with it is the compression post though which could be costly if it is rotten.

Thanks guys!

 

[Delezynski]

Cambo,

I would make the suggestion you check out a Nor'Sea 27. When we were working we had ours in a lake. We were transferred to the San Francisco Bay area, we trailed her there (using a van) and we moved aboard. After a few years, we sailed out under the Golden Gate bridge, turned left and planned to spend a few months in Mexico. After more than 4 years in the Sea of Cortez, we had a family emergency that required us to come back to the USA. Many have sailed around the world.

When we knew we would be in the US for some time, we trailed her back here. Last year, we trailed her back to the SF Bay & Delta area for a 6 month cruise. Later this month, we plan to trailer to New Orleans for our next 6 month cruise on over to Florida.

MORE than enough room for the two of us, AND, not only is a 27 lower cost to cruise in, it's way less cost to NOT sail!

Just another bit of info for you.

Greg

 

[Tim R.]

We went down in size for a newer boat and are very glad we did.

 

[higgs]

If you are not crossing any oceans, a 20k budget opens a lot of possibilities and should be able to get you a nice, but older, 30 some footer suitable for Parry Sound and the surrounding area as well as the open waters of Georgian Bay. Certainly you could find Pearsons, Irwins, Endeavors, C&Cs, etc. in that size and price range. All those boats will handle the Great Lakes just fine. I spent a week in Parry Sound doing day sails before moving on. What a great place to have a boat. Good day sailing on the Sound, but a fantastic jumping off spot for longer cruise. Lucky you. Say hello to Bobby Orr for me.

 

[Ray Bowles]

We recently returned from live aboard cruising after retirement. I bought a 38 foot very well found cutter. We had a fixed amount of money and after that was gone the dream would be over. We set a total amount for purchase and a reserve for improvements or repairs. After 1 month of looking at up to 10 boats a day we found an Island Packet 38 that had just returned from Italy in Mobile Bay. It had been refitted before leaving Europe. Knowing this boat was totally out of our price range I tried shooting a very lowball cash offer. They took it. They needed to sell the boat for reasons that were as pressing as our need to find a boat.
I had to transfer 50% of our repair money to purchase price but the boat was in "Bristol Condition."
When all was said and done we could have been just as happy with a 32 to 35 foot boat if it was as well equiped and cared for. Our dream could not have been better.
Sit down and totally define what you need in a boat. Only include what you must have on this boat. Have a range of size you need. 27 to 35 feet or whatever. Do NOT pay more for a boat equiped with extras you do not need. Shoot your low price and I do mean low. If you want it bad enough you can come up but you can't go down.
HAVE THE BOAT SURVEYED! If there are any repairs needed to the hull, motor, decks or electrical system run away. Look some more. A summer spent finding that dream boat will return years of dream adventures.
Ray

 

[Cambo]

Lots more great info, thanks again!


Delezynski: those are beautiful boats and sounds like quite the adventure. From my searches, it looks like they are hard to find for sale around here. Ideally I'd like to find a boat on Georgian Bay or Lake Huron so I can sail it home.

Tim: good to hear, so many people always say go bigger.

Higgs: I will keep a look out for some of them. It is a great place, I'm really looking forward to going on some longer adventures though! Haven't seen bobby around here yet!

Ray: sounds like a great retirement, only another 30 years for me to get there. I guess it can't hurt to make a low offer, many of the boats I have seen have already been replaced by newer bigger boats so the owners could be real motivated to sell. A survey is a must, I did not get one on my last boat and got lucky but this will be much more money this time so I will have one done. I would imagine more boats will come up for sale closer to spring as well.

 

[Delezynski]

Lots more great info, thanks again!


Delezynski: those are beautiful boats and sounds like quite the adventure. From my searches, it looks like they are hard to find for sale around here. Ideally I'd like to find a boat on Georgian Bay or Lake Huron so I can sail it home.

Ahhh... yes, there may not be once close by, but remember, they go to weather at 55 MPH.

Greg

 

[BobM]

I was moving up from a 25 and a 27-28 footer just didn't seem much of an upgrade. The fact that I am 6' even helped make the decision to go to 30' easier. It is the systems not the size that makes for more work, but there are trade offs that are important depending on what you will do 80% of the time. An outboard, port potty and a jug of water mean less maintenance. If you are day sailing a C&C 25 is a nice boat. The 27-29 will likely mean an inboard and more work in exchange for more fuel economy and range.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Very good question and very useful answers.

The KEY things that stand out are:

--- to DEFINE just what you want to do with the boat.

--- to get as BIG a boat as you can because you'll never regret it and once you get to a certain size the SYSTEMS are all the same

--- to find on hat "catches you eye"

--- to find one that is supported VERY WELL by owners associations and websites so you don't have to "reinvent the wheel" when something comes up to fix, 'cuz there will be dozens who have btdt [A new neighbor with exactly the same boat as mine just noved in literally next door. He spent his first month of ownership "fixing" his tach, 'cuz he said it didn't work when he started his engine. Well, of course not, since his batteries were ALWAYS full charged since he plugged in AND has a WIND GENERATOR!!! If he'd only asked... He said finally that someone told him to start his fridge, but didn't explain why! I did. But if he'd asked on this or our C34 Forum, he could have saved a LOT of work and worries. )

Happy Hunting!

 

[Stu Jackson]

Very good question and very useful answers.

The KEY things that stand out are:

--- to DEFINE just what you want to do with the boat.

--- to get as BIG a boat as you can because you'll never regret it and once you get to a certain size the SYSTEMS are all the same

--- to find on that "catches your eye"

--- to find one that is supported VERY WELL by owners associations and websites so you don't have to "reinvent the wheel" when something comes up to fix, 'cuz there will be dozens who have btdt [A new neighbor with exactly the same boat as mine just moved in literally next door. He spent his first month of ownership "fixing" his tach, 'cuz he said it didn't work when he started his engine. Well, of course not, since his batteries were ALWAYS full charged since he plugged in AND has a WIND GENERATOR!!! If he'd only asked... He said finally that someone told him to start his fridge, but didn't explain why! I did. But if he'd asked on this or our C34 Forum, he could have saved a LOT of work and worries. ]

Happy Hunting!

 

[Cambo]

This has been very informative and will help me out once I have to make a decision.

The good news is that my boat has some of the systems that larger boats do like diesel inboard, running water and pump out head so the learning curve won't be too steep.

The Bayfield 25 is technically only a 23 footer because the bowsprit counts towards the LOA so even a 27 is a good step up.

I think once a get a better look at some boats I will have an easier time deciding. I would prefer the biggest I can get but it has to seem a lot bigger and better then a 27 for me to spend the larger sum of money.

I will post once I see some boats!

 

[RECESS]

I would add to know your budget. If you think you want a 38 ft boat, look at how much replacing the rigging would cost. Look at how much to replace the sails. They could be in great working condition, but things happen and you better be able to afford the repairs when hard luck hits. The bigger the boat, the deeper pockets you need.

 

[Ray Bowles]

Cambo, Just an aside to the posts, when Reba and I came back the boat we wanted for use here in NE Washington State was a Bayfield 25. It's easier to put toothpaste back into the tube than to find a B25 outhere. I have a San Juan 23 and love it. Fast and great for up to 10 days out.
Enjoy your hunt.
Ray

 

[Kings Gambit]

In my opinion, a bigger (& newer) boat is better for most of the things you'll probably wish to do. Also, it seems the things that you can and wish to do improve in diversity and in pleasure with a larger boat. By "larger" I'm thinking 38' - 39' minimum. You can get a lot of boat in 38' to 39', but that varies with the brand and type. Think COMFORT & SPEED (=RANGE). If you do stuff on weekends you'll appreciate that you can get there faster on a larger boat, AND you'll be more likely to go in the marginal conditions that you might not wish to brave in your smaller (= wetter & slower) boat. If you go away for long periods, you'll still appreciate the greater distance you can travel b/f ducking into some cozy spot for the night! A bigger boat can carry more stuff, so it has more endurance. Two people need (wish for) the same amount of stuff whether on a small boat or large. On a large boat you have somewhere to put the stuff where you don't have to move it around every day, depending on what you are doing. If you get a newer boat, you won't have to fix as many things as often. So, you're sailing on her, not waiting on her to be ready to go! If you have the money, use it for the greater pleasure of seeing and doing more in relative comfort!!

 

[David in Sandusky]

Buy the "right" size

In your price range you are buying an older boat. The "Cherubini" Hunters from 27 through 33 feet are all possible in today's market. All have a private head, 6 feet of clearance, and a good turn of speed, especially cruising off the wind.

The Admiral and I bought a '77 h27 in 2000, and have sailed 6,000 nm and spent 400 nights on her. We have chartered 30 to 40 footers of modern vintage most years, and have never been tempted to buy a newer or larger boat.

Advantages of a smaller, older boat include:

- Simpler but very functional systems. I can fix any of them myself.
- Much lower forces on sails and while docking.
- Overhangs and more displacement increase comfort underway. By the way our cockpit is quite dry due to good design, size isn't the only solution.
- they have better lines than many of the plumb bows and plastic look of some modern designs.

Google luck! Don't forget the fun factor!

 

[Jackdaw]

We have two boats, at both ends of your length spectrum. Both are great boats for their length, and we love them both.

There is a HUGE difference in operational costs on a 34 footer vs a 27 footer. Sails, bottom paint, slip fees, etc. And as other note, the systems are much more complex. Not trying to talk you out of it, but remember that when looking at costs beyond the purchase price.

A C&C 29 MkII is a very nice boat if you can find one in good shape.