Size of turnbuckles

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JMonda

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Aug 1, 2009
49
2 26S Alaqua Bayou
Hi Folks,
I've been puzzling over whether I should change the rigging on my 26-S so that it can be tuned with turnbuckles. I'm not sure what the working load needs to be. I think the 1/4 inch turnbuckles have about a 400 pound working load. The 3/8 turnbuckles have significantly more load capability (I think about 800 but I didn't write it down when I was looking).

Also, the larger turnbuckles may have some advantage in that they are closer in length to the devices that come stock on the boat. So if I choose the right size I may not have to replace the side stays.

Just in case I don't put on turnbuckles, I did buy the adjustment tool for adjusting the stock hardware...but it's still unopened in the box it came in.

No doubt some of you have converted to turnbuckles. What size did you use?

Thanks a lot, Jerry
 

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Do you trailer your boat? From what I understand the stock setup is less likely to kink the shrouds vs. turnbuckles when raising and lowering the mast.

Do you race the boat? If so fine tuning might be a factor, but if not once you adjust the rigging it should be good for a long time.

On the load the 5/32 nd shrouds don't need even 400 lbs. on them. I might still move from 1/4 to 5/16 to just help with the ease of turning them. Another thing to worry about with the turnbuckles is galling and freezing. One day you might want to adjust them and find that they don't turn.

Adjusting the stock shrouds can be done very quickly without a tool if you have a mast raising system and even if you don't. Just lower the mast slightly to take the tension off and move the plates to a new hole and pull it back up and pin it and adjust the tension on the forestay and check things. Once you are happy you are done and have pretty much a non-maintenance system that has worked on thousands of boats.

Here is a cut and past from what I put on another Mac board recently. Take it for what it is worth and realize I'm not being critical of how you or anyone else sets up their rigging.

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at first we used the mast raising system to pull forward on the forestay and pin it. Then I would tighten the turnbuckle after that. I thought I had it plenty tight with proper tension on it. There was no side to side sway of the mast when sailing.

Then in Canada I was on another guys boat and noticed that his shrouds seemed to be much tighter than ours. He showed me how he would pull in on them with his hand to where they would come in about 1 1/2 inches under moderate to heavy pull. The next time the boat was on the trailer I lowered the mast and then adjusted the shroud chainplates to tighten the forestay further and ran that way at Lake Powell.

Then I wanted to make up all new standing rigging for the boat before we went to Florida. I had a forestay made up by rigging only as I needed a swagged end for the turnbuckle, but made up all the rest of the rigging myself. At the same time we bought a loos gauge and used it when I rigged the boat. Using it I found that the rigging still could be quite a bit tighter and rigged it that way using the new Johnson lever and headstay for the furler. I really like the way it feels now. If you go forward on the boat and grab the shrouds they hardly move at all.

Now we use the mast rasing system and pull very hard using the winch to just pin the forestay with the Johnson lever un-done. Then it is pretty hard to snap it over center and pin it. Now the forestay is a lot tighter than when I pinned it and then turned the turnbuckle.

The moral of the story is that I'll bet most of the rigging out there is not near as taught as if you bought and used a loos gauge to set it up. I also doubt now that you can get a really tight rig by just using the winch, or pulling on the forestay and pinning it. Will your rigging fail. Probably not as we and others have done this for some time.

I've been trying to think of some easy way we could share a loos gauge between us that would work. If you ever get the chance use one and see how tight the forestay and shrouds are on your boat. I think you will be surprised by what you find. Ours is now over 300 lbs. Can you pull that hard?

I'm certainly not trying to tell anyone on here how to rig their boat. Most of you have been sailing way longer than us.

When we bought the boat we had to read and learn everything on our own and one of the things I worried about was how tight should the rigging be and was I over-tightening it with the turnbuckle on the forestay. Well as you can see from my other post I was a long ways from having it too tight. That info might help someone else like us that maybe worried.

When we had the new forestay made up we went from 1/8th to 5/32nds (personal choice). I also went to the next larger size Johnson Lever than what most use and all of the rest of the fittings associated with the forestay have also all been increased in size so there is no one weak link.

According to the table here....
http://www.loosnaples.com/how-to-use-90-91

1/8th on the forestay can be 320# and 5/32nd on the forestay can be 500#
and on the shrouds 5/32nd can be 350

If I remember right I have the forestay a little over 300# now and the shrouds around the 350 number. Right now I'm way under on what could be on the forestay with the 5/32. I was going to increase the backstay to 5/32nd, but then figured that wasn't really necessary on our boats since the backstay doesn't do much in the way of taking big loads so made up a new 1/8th inch one.

Since we tend to stay out for long periods we can't pick weather days and never know what we might end up with. That was the reasoning behind increasing the forestay. We are cruisers and aren't that concerned with performance, so now have more of weight aloft with the little heavier forestay. We still have the old forestay attached under and inside of the new one on the mast so that it can be pinned behind the furler and our old hankon sails used if needed. Also if we get one we could run a storm jib up the old forestay. We also have a topping lift in the back and a separate anchor sail halyard and now the VHF antenna at the top of the mast. To tell you the truth we aren't good enough to feel the difference of more weight aloft vs. when we first sailed the boat.

We now sit about 1 1/2 to 2 inches deeper in the water with the new mods and loaded with water/fuel and food for a month. We can tell the difference there and it has seemed to of stiffened the boat up as a lot of that weight is down low in the hull. So for us that has been a good change.
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Good luck,

Sum

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

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JMonda

.
Aug 1, 2009
49
2 26S Alaqua Bayou
Thanks Sum,
I ordered a Johnson Lever. I have hank on fore-sails so I'll have to see how much hardware ends up in the front. Hopefully there won't be so much that the first two sail clips won't span it.

Jerry
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Thanks Sum,
I ordered a Johnson Lever. I have hank on fore-sails so I'll have to see how much hardware ends up in the front. Hopefully there won't be so much that the first two sail clips won't span it.

Jerry
I love our Johnson lever, but I'm sure you realize that if you use it along with the turnbuckle the forestay will probably have to be changed out. Not sure of which one you ordered, but I think Bob Hussey replaced the turnbuckle with the Johnson lever and was able to use the same forestay.

Here is one picture of his setup...



Note he has the Johnson lever attached directly to the bottom of the furler. You might be able to attach the bottom of the fore stay to the top of the lever. There are a couple of, I think 1 inch, adjustment points on the lever and if you need it to be longer just add a chain link or two to the assembly at the top or bottom.

He and I also added a .....



.... toggle under the Johnson lever, which I think is a very good idea when using the furler, but would be an option I would think with a forestay and a hank-on sail.

Good luck and I love the Johnson lever myself,

Sum

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links
 

JMonda

.
Aug 1, 2009
49
2 26S Alaqua Bayou
Thanks a lot,
I was thinking if I need a new forestay or need to make mine shorter, I could just go to West Marine and buy the stuff from them and make it right there with their swedge tool. Do you recommend that? Or would you find someone else to do that? It seems fairly straight forward although it would be pretty bad if it came undone under sail.
Jerry
 

JMonda

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Aug 1, 2009
49
2 26S Alaqua Bayou
Like the old show Columbo...just one more question. The loos guage says its for 302/304 stainless wire. West Marine sells both the 302/304 and 316. I understand 316 is a better grade of stainless. Which did you use?
 

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
I bought my rigging wire from....

http://www.riggingonly.com/

....rigging only and also the sleeves, thimbles, toggle and turnbuckle for the furler. I had them make up the forestay as the turnbuckle screw has to be machine swagged on.

I made up the shrouds and backstay myself. You could make up the forestay at West Marine probably. I feel mine are safe and trust them, but making them was a nervous job for me. You might be able to have riggingonly make up a forestay for what you would pay for the materials at West Marine.

I bought a Tie Down hand swag....



... tool for about $55. No West Marine near me.

Good luck,

Sum

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Like the old show Columbo...just one more question. The loos guage says its for 302/304 stainless wire. West Marine sells both the 302/304 and 316. I understand 316 is a better grade of stainless. Which did you use?
Personally I would only use the 316...

http://www.riggingonly.com/wire.htm#WIRE

... and it isn't that bad from them for the sizes we use.

That is interesting about the loos gauge being for the 302/304. I did not realize that. I'll have to research that. They do say the reading will be repeatable. It also seems strange as most people that I see use the 316. I might call them tomorrow if I can't find something on line that I trust.

c ya,

Sum
 
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