Peg, Some time ago I ordered a replacement for the commode in my Hunter sail boat. The boat had been badly damaged by a recent hurrican and we had to tear out the vanity and head to effect the repairs. The commode I purchased was an Atlantis A5 with the electric massarator bult in. Last Saturday I was in Home Depot: in the plumbing section looking at the commodes they sell for home use. These are a lot larger than what we boaters are offered. I have not installed the Atlantis A5 as of yet. Reason, the size of the commode opening front to back is only 11 inchec in length. The actual seat is just a shade bigger. In Home Depot the commodes are from 14 to 16 inches in length and the seats are a lot bigger. My question is this - why is the boating industry so in love with these small (read: tiny) commodes (such as the Av A5) that are only fit for use by small women and pre teen kids ?? Is there a marine commode out there that is made for the average American male and female ?? Given that 7 out of 10 Americans are overweight (so sez CNN). Appreciate your comments. RD
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Broad Reach, there is probably no reason why you cant install a "land based" head on your boat.. er well one, er maybe two at least IMHO. Having replaced the one in my house before, the first thing that jumps out is the way the plumbing is set up. Matching a wax ring, and the size of the "head exhaust" to your boats waste lines. Thats gonna be as easy as getting away with wearing a pair of "sea otter earings" at a Green Peace convention. Not to mention your gonna have to figure out a way to cut off your pump electrically if your a fresh water flush kinda boat, just to keep from overflowing the tank in the land based toilet, (the float ball will be fun heeled at 15 on a port tack), to say nothing of the amount of water your gonna go through. If your seawater, then its doable but your gonna need "McGyver" to set it up. I wouldnt want marine critters floating in the the toilet tank and that little "Tidybowl guy" is probably not good for the lines. Also, there is the weight issue.. again not a game breaker but... Peggie probably knows where you can get a "man sized" seat to sit on. Wait and let her chime in here. All in all, you have an idea, but maybe not so good a one. But hey.. who am I. Im sure it has been done by someone. Probably a "power bLoater" 
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Marine toilets have to fit in small spaces
However, there are household size marine toilets that are all china same as household toilets....the Raritan Atlantes is one of 'em. I'm not sure what you're measuring, but according to the dimensions here http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/atlantes/L1001v0105atlantes.pdf the "standard" Atlantes bowl is 18.75" front-back...the "elongated" bowl is 21.5"...which leads me to question whether the toilet you bought is actually an Atlantes. If it doesn't look like the one in the link I gave you, it isn't. If it's a Raritan, I suspect it may actually be a SeaEra http://www.raritaneng.com/products/toilets/electric/sea_era.html Household size toilets won't fit in the head on most sailboats, and then there's matter of weight. Most electric marine toilets weigh around 25 pounds...all china household sized toilets weigh around 75 pounds..about the same as actual household toilets. As for using a household toilet instead of a marine toilet...it won't work on any boat much smaller than a cruise ship because household toilets flush using gravity and a siphon, whereas marine toilets have to push waste through the hose to the tank or thru-hull.
However, there are household size marine toilets that are all china same as household toilets....the Raritan Atlantes is one of 'em. I'm not sure what you're measuring, but according to the dimensions here http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/atlantes/L1001v0105atlantes.pdf the "standard" Atlantes bowl is 18.75" front-back...the "elongated" bowl is 21.5"...which leads me to question whether the toilet you bought is actually an Atlantes. If it doesn't look like the one in the link I gave you, it isn't. If it's a Raritan, I suspect it may actually be a SeaEra http://www.raritaneng.com/products/toilets/electric/sea_era.html Household size toilets won't fit in the head on most sailboats, and then there's matter of weight. Most electric marine toilets weigh around 25 pounds...all china household sized toilets weigh around 75 pounds..about the same as actual household toilets. As for using a household toilet instead of a marine toilet...it won't work on any boat much smaller than a cruise ship because household toilets flush using gravity and a siphon, whereas marine toilets have to push waste through the hose to the tank or thru-hull.
Missed the Point
Think both of you have missed my point. I have no intention of using a Home Depot household commode in my boat. The Atlantis A5 I have in hand is still to small for my body frame. That marine commodes are made to fit in small spaces - I don't buy. In my Hunter 35 the original head area is completely stipped out. I have as much space as I care to, to dedicated to the commode install. Just as the designers of the newer boats have as much space as they care to. to dedicae to their commode installs. If all there is in the market place are the small and smaller commodes, then they are left to what products are available in response to their RFP's. I submit that more than one sail boat sale has been put off once the man of the house got a look at the small commodes in the newer boats. Why put out $300thou if one can not enjoy the "can" as one is use to ??? If Hunter and Catalina would band together and put pressure on the producion and design personnel in the commode business prehaps we would have a better more functional and comfortable product line. With the advent of the many many new types of plastics available why do they still use "china" ?? Because they always have ? I still maintain that the manufacturers of these items have a "small" mindset. I will measure my Atlantis A5 again to see just how it "seats. Appreciate your iterest. RD
Think both of you have missed my point. I have no intention of using a Home Depot household commode in my boat. The Atlantis A5 I have in hand is still to small for my body frame. That marine commodes are made to fit in small spaces - I don't buy. In my Hunter 35 the original head area is completely stipped out. I have as much space as I care to, to dedicated to the commode install. Just as the designers of the newer boats have as much space as they care to. to dedicae to their commode installs. If all there is in the market place are the small and smaller commodes, then they are left to what products are available in response to their RFP's. I submit that more than one sail boat sale has been put off once the man of the house got a look at the small commodes in the newer boats. Why put out $300thou if one can not enjoy the "can" as one is use to ??? If Hunter and Catalina would band together and put pressure on the producion and design personnel in the commode business prehaps we would have a better more functional and comfortable product line. With the advent of the many many new types of plastics available why do they still use "china" ?? Because they always have ? I still maintain that the manufacturers of these items have a "small" mindset. I will measure my Atlantis A5 again to see just how it "seats. Appreciate your iterest. RD
I didn't miss the point...
You can turn the whole cabin into a head, complete with separate tub and shower, if you want to, but there are only so many square feet in a boat, and the more space that's used for the head, the less there is for seating, a galley, berths, and storage...things most people consider more important than a large head. Marine toilet mfrs design toilets to fit the space available...full household size "thrones" for the large yacht market, smaller toilets for smaller boats...and they seem to satisfy at least 95% of the market. Why do they continue to use china? For two reasons: 1. it's more durable and can support more weight than any plastic. There are plastic--also metal--toilets...they aren't very attractive or durable. 2. household toilets are china and people today want their boat toilets to be as close "to the one at home" as possible, same as you do. But since they also want lots of other "living space," that means smaller heads than their bathrooms at home. 7 out of 10 Americans may be overweight, but not MOST sailors 'cuz sailing burns calories and builds muscle. Most overweight people decide against buying a sail boat once they've been on one because of the effort required just to move around one...they can't do it. Be careful in laying out your cabin design...weight distribution doesn't matter in a house, but it does on a sailboat. 'Cuz unless the weight is evenly distributed the boat will list and trim will also be greatly affected. I had a dockmate who bought a 33' boat that had been completely gutted and redone by the PO. He couldn't figure out why it listed about 5 degrees to starboard till he realized that the water tank, holding tank, 3 batteries, the head and a full size refrigerator were all on the starboard side. The only weight on the port side was the galley and seating. It was gorgeous, but a design disaster.
You can turn the whole cabin into a head, complete with separate tub and shower, if you want to, but there are only so many square feet in a boat, and the more space that's used for the head, the less there is for seating, a galley, berths, and storage...things most people consider more important than a large head. Marine toilet mfrs design toilets to fit the space available...full household size "thrones" for the large yacht market, smaller toilets for smaller boats...and they seem to satisfy at least 95% of the market. Why do they continue to use china? For two reasons: 1. it's more durable and can support more weight than any plastic. There are plastic--also metal--toilets...they aren't very attractive or durable. 2. household toilets are china and people today want their boat toilets to be as close "to the one at home" as possible, same as you do. But since they also want lots of other "living space," that means smaller heads than their bathrooms at home. 7 out of 10 Americans may be overweight, but not MOST sailors 'cuz sailing burns calories and builds muscle. Most overweight people decide against buying a sail boat once they've been on one because of the effort required just to move around one...they can't do it. Be careful in laying out your cabin design...weight distribution doesn't matter in a house, but it does on a sailboat. 'Cuz unless the weight is evenly distributed the boat will list and trim will also be greatly affected. I had a dockmate who bought a 33' boat that had been completely gutted and redone by the PO. He couldn't figure out why it listed about 5 degrees to starboard till he realized that the water tank, holding tank, 3 batteries, the head and a full size refrigerator were all on the starboard side. The only weight on the port side was the galley and seating. It was gorgeous, but a design disaster.
Atlantes Head
The Raritan Atlantes marine toilet, in standard form, uses the exact same size toilet seat as a conventional round-front household toilet. The Elongated Atlantes uses the same seat as a conventional household elongated toilet. They may look smaller because there's no toilet tank, etc., but the actual seating area is exactly the same as the respective household toilet. Household toilets were used as the design criteria for the Atlantes series toilets. The seats are interchangeable between household toilets and the Atlantes series toilets, in the respective sizes. The seating height of the Atlantes series toilets is exactly the same height as a household toilet.
The Raritan Atlantes marine toilet, in standard form, uses the exact same size toilet seat as a conventional round-front household toilet. The Elongated Atlantes uses the same seat as a conventional household elongated toilet. They may look smaller because there's no toilet tank, etc., but the actual seating area is exactly the same as the respective household toilet. Household toilets were used as the design criteria for the Atlantes series toilets. The seats are interchangeable between household toilets and the Atlantes series toilets, in the respective sizes. The seating height of the Atlantes series toilets is exactly the same height as a household toilet.
Marine Heads
I think Broad Reach (interesting name, considering the topic we're discussing) has things a little out of focus. Marine toilet manufacturers simply build what the customers (boat builders) will buy. Even manual toilets are available with household size seat and bowl - but do you ever see one on a sailboat? No! Why not? They're too big, and they're more expensive. The boat builders simply won't buy them. If you're having a custom boat built, that's another story. But be it Hunter, Catalina, Hinckley, Beneteau or Jeanneau, if you're getting a standard production sailboat, it's gonna have a small-sized toilet in the head. The ability to fit into a small space - and the lowest possible cost - are what they're looking for. I've been in this business for going on 36 years now, and if the builders wanted them and would buy them, you'd see them on their boats. As far as china bowls go, that's what the builders want - they're easier to keep clean, they don't scratch up and they don't absorb smells the way plastic toilet bowls do.
I think Broad Reach (interesting name, considering the topic we're discussing) has things a little out of focus. Marine toilet manufacturers simply build what the customers (boat builders) will buy. Even manual toilets are available with household size seat and bowl - but do you ever see one on a sailboat? No! Why not? They're too big, and they're more expensive. The boat builders simply won't buy them. If you're having a custom boat built, that's another story. But be it Hunter, Catalina, Hinckley, Beneteau or Jeanneau, if you're getting a standard production sailboat, it's gonna have a small-sized toilet in the head. The ability to fit into a small space - and the lowest possible cost - are what they're looking for. I've been in this business for going on 36 years now, and if the builders wanted them and would buy them, you'd see them on their boats. As far as china bowls go, that's what the builders want - they're easier to keep clean, they don't scratch up and they don't absorb smells the way plastic toilet bowls do.
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