I am contemplating running the usual webbing jacklines up either side of the boat as I've done on previous boats. They were easy to clip on to and use. However, I am going to be singlehanding this boat. It has a nice easy boarding walk-thru transom with a ladder I can pull down. I am wondering if I fell over the side, if the safety line would have me dangling over the side which would be difficult or impossible to climb up. It would be nice to slide all the way back down the line to the tail and ladder but I can see the safety line hanging on stanchions. Has anyone experience of falling over whilst clipped on? If so, how would you have fared if on your own?
Singlehanding Jacklines? Left dangling over side?
- Thread starter Patrick Randall
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No kidding, Fred!!!!
Man, just thinking about that little scenario sends a bit of a shiver up the spine! Being hauled through the water and not having any way to get back aboard, while the boat sails on with no one at the helm, sounds like a really bad day to me!
Man, just thinking about that little scenario sends a bit of a shiver up the spine! Being hauled through the water and not having any way to get back aboard, while the boat sails on with no one at the helm, sounds like a really bad day to me!
Better than watching the boat disappear...
...over the horizon. Yeah, I've thought about dangling over the side. And I'd rather be figuring out how to pull myself up to the deck than wondering if anyone will ever see me floating in the water. David Lady Lillie
...over the horizon. Yeah, I've thought about dangling over the side. And I'd rather be figuring out how to pull myself up to the deck than wondering if anyone will ever see me floating in the water. David Lady Lillie
For Information
I know a guy who was about to make a transatlantic crossing single handed. He knew that some transat sailors towed a fender on a long warp to grab if they fell overboard. So he had someone else drive his boat and tried the MOB procedure. He found it was easy to swim to the line and grab it. At two knots he could pull himself towards the boat. At three knots he was unable to move forward. At four knots he could barely cling on and At five knots he was washed off the rope. He devised himself a pin which, when connected to the rope, would pull out of the autopilot and allow the boat to come up into wind. When last seen he was developing another gadget which would also cut the engine. I too do lots of single handing and feel that the stanchion tops would probably prevent the safety line on the lifejacket from sliding all the way to the back. We had an incident where a yacht sailed itself the length of the Solent (15 miles) with the skipper dangling on his lifeline - dead of course. Dunno the answer to that though. Regards,
I know a guy who was about to make a transatlantic crossing single handed. He knew that some transat sailors towed a fender on a long warp to grab if they fell overboard. So he had someone else drive his boat and tried the MOB procedure. He found it was easy to swim to the line and grab it. At two knots he could pull himself towards the boat. At three knots he was unable to move forward. At four knots he could barely cling on and At five knots he was washed off the rope. He devised himself a pin which, when connected to the rope, would pull out of the autopilot and allow the boat to come up into wind. When last seen he was developing another gadget which would also cut the engine. I too do lots of single handing and feel that the stanchion tops would probably prevent the safety line on the lifejacket from sliding all the way to the back. We had an incident where a yacht sailed itself the length of the Solent (15 miles) with the skipper dangling on his lifeline - dead of course. Dunno the answer to that though. Regards,
Outside the lifelines?
I've thought about running the jackline outside the lifelines/stanchions for this very purpose. I too singlehand my 37.5 regularly, and have the transom ladder rigged to pull down easily. Seems that if the line were outside the stanchions, I would slide aft quickly and could get back aboard. Opinions? I also want to rig a quick disconnect, similar to outboards to my autopilot for the very reasons discussed above. That thought really chills me.
I've thought about running the jackline outside the lifelines/stanchions for this very purpose. I too singlehand my 37.5 regularly, and have the transom ladder rigged to pull down easily. Seems that if the line were outside the stanchions, I would slide aft quickly and could get back aboard. Opinions? I also want to rig a quick disconnect, similar to outboards to my autopilot for the very reasons discussed above. That thought really chills me.
Shorty
Read recently that the concept of having a shorter tether seems to keep you out of the water. Seems like a reasonable idea. I,too, have thought about that. Lin & Larry Pardy suggest working REAL hard on NOT even getting close to going overboard. (Who can guess what book I got for Father's Day this year?) I've also thought about rigging a line to disengage my autopilot, but it gets complicated with an AP3000 on the wheel. It was much easier imagining my old Navico on the C25 tiller. I just do the One hand for yourself One hand for ship whenever I go, and make damn sure I'm ALWAYS hold onto something solid. We have side handholds on our dodger. If you don't' go see an old issue of Good Old Boat magazine, where they show you how to install one. Stu
Read recently that the concept of having a shorter tether seems to keep you out of the water. Seems like a reasonable idea. I,too, have thought about that. Lin & Larry Pardy suggest working REAL hard on NOT even getting close to going overboard. (Who can guess what book I got for Father's Day this year?) I've also thought about rigging a line to disengage my autopilot, but it gets complicated with an AP3000 on the wheel. It was much easier imagining my old Navico on the C25 tiller. I just do the One hand for yourself One hand for ship whenever I go, and make damn sure I'm ALWAYS hold onto something solid. We have side handholds on our dodger. If you don't' go see an old issue of Good Old Boat magazine, where they show you how to install one. Stu
We went forward with two tethers. One was always
hooked to the boat and each was about 6 feet long. That's still too long. No one was allowed to leave the cockpit unless someone was watching. All sail control lines are led aft too. (except spinnaker) When I single hand at sea I stay in the cockpit unless I drop sails and stop the boat. (never happened) I promised my wife.
hooked to the boat and each was about 6 feet long. That's still too long. No one was allowed to leave the cockpit unless someone was watching. All sail control lines are led aft too. (except spinnaker) When I single hand at sea I stay in the cockpit unless I drop sails and stop the boat. (never happened) I promised my wife.
Read Stu about Lin
As others have noted - the first job of the tether-system is to keep you aboard. A jackline, mounted along the centre-line (rather than at the rails), in combination with an adjustable tether works well. The six foot tether can be clipped directly to the jackline (for a 6' leash), or run around the jackline and clipped back to your harness (for a shorter 3' leash). I don’t think I’d use an “outside the rail” jackline - notwithstanding it’s facility in allowing the MOB to slide aft for easier re-boarding (see Donalex’ post, which I can confirm). An aside: I cannot normally board my C
As others have noted - the first job of the tether-system is to keep you aboard. A jackline, mounted along the centre-line (rather than at the rails), in combination with an adjustable tether works well. The six foot tether can be clipped directly to the jackline (for a 6' leash), or run around the jackline and clipped back to your harness (for a shorter 3' leash). I don’t think I’d use an “outside the rail” jackline - notwithstanding it’s facility in allowing the MOB to slide aft for easier re-boarding (see Donalex’ post, which I can confirm). An aside: I cannot normally board my C
use a pelican hook
Whatever you do use a pelican hook so that you don't drown. Being towed underwater reduces your life expectancy to about 3 minutes. If you could stow the rope in a bag you might be able to use a standard 6' tether connected with a pelican hook. But spliced into this a bag with a 20' rope so that when you release the pelican hook you are held by the other rope near the stern. Maybe include a length of bungy to absorb some of the shock or use a climbing rope. All of the advantages of a standard tether with another option if needed.
Whatever you do use a pelican hook so that you don't drown. Being towed underwater reduces your life expectancy to about 3 minutes. If you could stow the rope in a bag you might be able to use a standard 6' tether connected with a pelican hook. But spliced into this a bag with a 20' rope so that when you release the pelican hook you are held by the other rope near the stern. Maybe include a length of bungy to absorb some of the shock or use a climbing rope. All of the advantages of a standard tether with another option if needed.
But what is the advantage of all that line?
Wouldn't you just be dragged the same as if on that tether only farther back with no chance of being able to pull yourself back on deck during a wave surge? Has anyone here gone over the side while on a tether, or know someone who has? Maybe it's not an issue because tethers are working the way they are suppose to; keeping sailors on deck. Anybody?
Wouldn't you just be dragged the same as if on that tether only farther back with no chance of being able to pull yourself back on deck during a wave surge? Has anyone here gone over the side while on a tether, or know someone who has? Maybe it's not an issue because tethers are working the way they are suppose to; keeping sailors on deck. Anybody?
the idea is that you will end up near the ladder
My idea is that if the jacklines don't keep you onboard and you find yourself being dragged through the water beside the boat. You then release the pelican hook and float back near the transom where you have a ladder to climb back on board. Maybe trail a heavy line to grab onto. For that matter it would then be easy to trail a line leading to a tiller or autopilot switch to slow or stop the boat.
My idea is that if the jacklines don't keep you onboard and you find yourself being dragged through the water beside the boat. You then release the pelican hook and float back near the transom where you have a ladder to climb back on board. Maybe trail a heavy line to grab onto. For that matter it would then be easy to trail a line leading to a tiller or autopilot switch to slow or stop the boat.
OK P, thanks.
But, I still would be more secure next to the boat. As much as anyone could feel secure, overboard. Anybody out there, gone over? (out there
)
But, I still would be more secure next to the boat. As much as anyone could feel secure, overboard. Anybody out there, gone over? (out there
)Nice idea, I'll try it this weekend.
Sometimes the best ideas seem to escape my mind. I'm sure my wife agrees. I singlehand just putting a tension rope on the tiller. On some points of sail she'll go 10, 15 minutes without a touch ... pleanty of time for me to do my work on the bow, mast, etc. I'm like Stu, and just work real hard at not falling off, but I always picture myself bobbing around in my pfd while she goes happily on her way. Thanks Donalex. I'm going to try rigging a trailing line this weekend and see if grabbing it will disengage my cheapo self-steering. (Crew aboard, of course.) Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
Sometimes the best ideas seem to escape my mind. I'm sure my wife agrees. I singlehand just putting a tension rope on the tiller. On some points of sail she'll go 10, 15 minutes without a touch ... pleanty of time for me to do my work on the bow, mast, etc. I'm like Stu, and just work real hard at not falling off, but I always picture myself bobbing around in my pfd while she goes happily on her way. Thanks Donalex. I'm going to try rigging a trailing line this weekend and see if grabbing it will disengage my cheapo self-steering. (Crew aboard, of course.) Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
So Far
So far, the only report in this thread of someone going over did not end well. I think that once you are over the rail and on a 6' tether, things are probably not headed to a good ending. If you are close enough to land to utilize a handheld VHF, you might want to keep one in your pocket. You might not get back to the boat, but maybe someone will get to you. If farther from land, there are handheld EPIRB's. I thoought the guy who experimented with getting back on at different speeds provided an interesting point. If you are only going two knots, you probably aren't going to fall off. It's when you are cranking 6 with a rail in the water that something like that is more likely to occur. I don't think a longer line, ladder at the back of the boat, a float, or anything short of a means to round up the boat and kill the engine if running is going to help you. And it better round it up fast, because if the wind is blowing, it might still outrun your swimming ability. That's probably why there are not a lot of singlehanders who have fallen off writing in their experiences. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
So far, the only report in this thread of someone going over did not end well. I think that once you are over the rail and on a 6' tether, things are probably not headed to a good ending. If you are close enough to land to utilize a handheld VHF, you might want to keep one in your pocket. You might not get back to the boat, but maybe someone will get to you. If farther from land, there are handheld EPIRB's. I thoought the guy who experimented with getting back on at different speeds provided an interesting point. If you are only going two knots, you probably aren't going to fall off. It's when you are cranking 6 with a rail in the water that something like that is more likely to occur. I don't think a longer line, ladder at the back of the boat, a float, or anything short of a means to round up the boat and kill the engine if running is going to help you. And it better round it up fast, because if the wind is blowing, it might still outrun your swimming ability. That's probably why there are not a lot of singlehanders who have fallen off writing in their experiences. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Multiple Jacklines
Was reading on a website today about some singlehanded racing in the Great Lakes, and their race rules advocate a single jackline down the center line, dual jacklines down the sides outside the lifelines, and then a double 6ft/3ft tether. The premise I took to be is that the center jackline SHOULD keep you on the boat, but if you find yourself over the side, you clip on to outer jackline and unclip from the inner. Not sure if it would work in practice, but seems like a reasonable theory. I think what I would look for is something ala "WaterWorld", so that if I went over it would activate a power winch to hoist me back on board. That's crazy enough that it just might work. T J
Was reading on a website today about some singlehanded racing in the Great Lakes, and their race rules advocate a single jackline down the center line, dual jacklines down the sides outside the lifelines, and then a double 6ft/3ft tether. The premise I took to be is that the center jackline SHOULD keep you on the boat, but if you find yourself over the side, you clip on to outer jackline and unclip from the inner. Not sure if it would work in practice, but seems like a reasonable theory. I think what I would look for is something ala "WaterWorld", so that if I went over it would activate a power winch to hoist me back on board. That's crazy enough that it just might work. T J
Just a thought
How about draging a dingy astern. Its a lot easier to climb into a dingy than over a sailboats transom.
How about draging a dingy astern. Its a lot easier to climb into a dingy than over a sailboats transom.
Four lines
Thanks for starting this thread as it has finally resulted in me figuring out how to handle this situation as I have been wrestling with it for some time. I have a dodger with a full enclosure, Hunter rigging with mast supports and a single line down the middle won't work without multiple clipping and unclipping or a double 6 foot teather. Even a double teather won't work along the side of the dodger. I am going to rig two lines inside the lifelines that are going to be pretty tight to the deck starting from the table connection in the cockpit, out the zipper door and to the forward cleat. From the forward cleats, I am going to rig another two lines outside the lifelines starting at the forward cleat and ending at the hand holds at the swim platform. Each outside line will be hung from the stanchion connections with weak zip ties that will break if loaded. The ties will keep the line relatively tight and short enough that it won't be in the water and a potential prop hazard. The line will be just under the rub rail and coiled at the stern platform and similarly tied with weak zip tie to allow uncoiling when loaded. I will make a short second teather connected to the harness that will have a wichard shackle on the end attached to the harness and let it hang attached to the elastic teather. My normal elastic 6 foot teather will be used to attach to the inside jackline. Should I fall overboard, I will attach the second short teather to the outside jackline, unattach the elastic teather, and the load will break the zip ties and I will slide to the rear plaform and board via the swim ladder. Given all the options I have thought about for several months, this is the only option I think would actually work and allow easy unassisted access back aboard. Before, when alone, or in rough weather, I have used the jacklines on the inside of the lifelines. I am pretty sure I could fall overboard with this arrangement, but they will not allow me to get back aboard if I fall over without climbing back over the lifelines. If you make these inside lines long enough to reach the stern swim platform, they have many potential places to get hung up without allowing enough length. Climbing aboard forward can be done, but I believe would be very difficult for me (57 year old with heart problems). Add in pitching seas and the energy required to get back aboard this way is pretty high. If my spouse has to come and help me get in, it affords the opportunity for both of us to be in the water with three times the problem. I would like some feedback on this concept, partcularly from someone who has actually fallen off!
Thanks for starting this thread as it has finally resulted in me figuring out how to handle this situation as I have been wrestling with it for some time. I have a dodger with a full enclosure, Hunter rigging with mast supports and a single line down the middle won't work without multiple clipping and unclipping or a double 6 foot teather. Even a double teather won't work along the side of the dodger. I am going to rig two lines inside the lifelines that are going to be pretty tight to the deck starting from the table connection in the cockpit, out the zipper door and to the forward cleat. From the forward cleats, I am going to rig another two lines outside the lifelines starting at the forward cleat and ending at the hand holds at the swim platform. Each outside line will be hung from the stanchion connections with weak zip ties that will break if loaded. The ties will keep the line relatively tight and short enough that it won't be in the water and a potential prop hazard. The line will be just under the rub rail and coiled at the stern platform and similarly tied with weak zip tie to allow uncoiling when loaded. I will make a short second teather connected to the harness that will have a wichard shackle on the end attached to the harness and let it hang attached to the elastic teather. My normal elastic 6 foot teather will be used to attach to the inside jackline. Should I fall overboard, I will attach the second short teather to the outside jackline, unattach the elastic teather, and the load will break the zip ties and I will slide to the rear plaform and board via the swim ladder. Given all the options I have thought about for several months, this is the only option I think would actually work and allow easy unassisted access back aboard. Before, when alone, or in rough weather, I have used the jacklines on the inside of the lifelines. I am pretty sure I could fall overboard with this arrangement, but they will not allow me to get back aboard if I fall over without climbing back over the lifelines. If you make these inside lines long enough to reach the stern swim platform, they have many potential places to get hung up without allowing enough length. Climbing aboard forward can be done, but I believe would be very difficult for me (57 year old with heart problems). Add in pitching seas and the energy required to get back aboard this way is pretty high. If my spouse has to come and help me get in, it affords the opportunity for both of us to be in the water with three times the problem. I would like some feedback on this concept, partcularly from someone who has actually fallen off!
Ok...I have gone overboard unitentionally...
I'll tell you about it and then about how I try to avoid it now. It has been 35 years since then, but I can recall it as if it were yesterday. I was 19 and was either crossing from Port Everglades to Bimini or running up the coast from Key West (I don't remember which trip, but we were not in sight of land). I had the dog-watch with the owner/skipper and our other crewman below, asleep in the cabin. We were making about 5 knots in about 15 knots of wind, clear skies and 3'-4'seas. I had the tiller tied off and clumsily slipped overboard while standing on the boomkin, occupied as the vast majority of folk who go overboard in mild weather are (though I was stone cold sober). Fortunately, it was our practice to trail a 1" fifty-foot long warp with knots tied in it every 3' at all times while off-shore. I was nineteen, a former competitive swimmer and experienced commercial diver. I could swim three lengths of an Olympic pool under water in one breath. Yet, at 5 knots, it was all that I could physically do to drag myself back up the line and climb aboard. At that speed, a swimmer hanging onto the line is constantly submarined. It is very difficult to get a breath and the drag force is incredible. Initially, I thought it was kind funny in a stupid way. But after advancing a couple of knots up the line I became concerned. Before I was half-way back to the boat, I was having doubts. By the time I made it all the way, I barely had the strength left to get my foot on the boomkin bob-stay and haul myself aboard. I was utterly exhausted and humiliated at the stupidity of my arrogance. I'm still in pretty decent shape, but I doubt that I could hang on and keep breathing for very long now...no matter how much adrenaline is pumping. I would be very concerned about being clipped to a line that was dragging me along. I have a Catalina 320 and wear an automatic inflatable vest with integral harness when single-handing or in any rough weather and in moderate winds in cold weather or at night. I have twin jack-lines with clips on one end and I have them tied together in a knot about six feet from the clips, which I snap on the bow cleats. This keeps the tether short when I am at the bow. I run them back on either side of the mast along the centerline, over the dodger and bimini, then tie them to the split backstays. This keeps the tether short in the cockpit and along the sides. The short tether keeps me in the boat...period. Yet, I have access to all parts of the boat. If I am reaching or running, the leeward jack-line has to be run inside the mid-boom main-sheet. You have to keep to the windward side, or unclip if going forward on the lee side. Other than that, is not a problem unless I have to jibe frequently. I have found that the process of running the jack-lines and clipping on makes me far more attentive, less careless and I seem to hold on tighter. It seems as if I slip or lose my balance far less when clipped on. In light air at night with crew aboard, I trail a 30' dock line with a knot in the end and wear a light-weight manual inflatable vest.
I'll tell you about it and then about how I try to avoid it now. It has been 35 years since then, but I can recall it as if it were yesterday. I was 19 and was either crossing from Port Everglades to Bimini or running up the coast from Key West (I don't remember which trip, but we were not in sight of land). I had the dog-watch with the owner/skipper and our other crewman below, asleep in the cabin. We were making about 5 knots in about 15 knots of wind, clear skies and 3'-4'seas. I had the tiller tied off and clumsily slipped overboard while standing on the boomkin, occupied as the vast majority of folk who go overboard in mild weather are (though I was stone cold sober). Fortunately, it was our practice to trail a 1" fifty-foot long warp with knots tied in it every 3' at all times while off-shore. I was nineteen, a former competitive swimmer and experienced commercial diver. I could swim three lengths of an Olympic pool under water in one breath. Yet, at 5 knots, it was all that I could physically do to drag myself back up the line and climb aboard. At that speed, a swimmer hanging onto the line is constantly submarined. It is very difficult to get a breath and the drag force is incredible. Initially, I thought it was kind funny in a stupid way. But after advancing a couple of knots up the line I became concerned. Before I was half-way back to the boat, I was having doubts. By the time I made it all the way, I barely had the strength left to get my foot on the boomkin bob-stay and haul myself aboard. I was utterly exhausted and humiliated at the stupidity of my arrogance. I'm still in pretty decent shape, but I doubt that I could hang on and keep breathing for very long now...no matter how much adrenaline is pumping. I would be very concerned about being clipped to a line that was dragging me along. I have a Catalina 320 and wear an automatic inflatable vest with integral harness when single-handing or in any rough weather and in moderate winds in cold weather or at night. I have twin jack-lines with clips on one end and I have them tied together in a knot about six feet from the clips, which I snap on the bow cleats. This keeps the tether short when I am at the bow. I run them back on either side of the mast along the centerline, over the dodger and bimini, then tie them to the split backstays. This keeps the tether short in the cockpit and along the sides. The short tether keeps me in the boat...period. Yet, I have access to all parts of the boat. If I am reaching or running, the leeward jack-line has to be run inside the mid-boom main-sheet. You have to keep to the windward side, or unclip if going forward on the lee side. Other than that, is not a problem unless I have to jibe frequently. I have found that the process of running the jack-lines and clipping on makes me far more attentive, less careless and I seem to hold on tighter. It seems as if I slip or lose my balance far less when clipped on. In light air at night with crew aboard, I trail a 30' dock line with a knot in the end and wear a light-weight manual inflatable vest.
Rails instead of lines?
I would think that replacing the wire lifelines with stainless rails (with no bumps at stanchions) would do it. A bit expensive maybe. WIth regular sidemounted jacklines one would be pulled to the stern ok I think. I sailed once on a SC70 with such a setup. It was thus equipped for USCG regs (carrying pizza/wine laden passengers on day trips) Heavy but effective probably. I might try getting some quotes. Especially as my lines need replacement and I'm suspicious of the stanchion mounts (one pulled right through the toe rail when I tried to leave the dock with a line wrapped around the lifeline - but we won't go into that here..)
I would think that replacing the wire lifelines with stainless rails (with no bumps at stanchions) would do it. A bit expensive maybe. WIth regular sidemounted jacklines one would be pulled to the stern ok I think. I sailed once on a SC70 with such a setup. It was thus equipped for USCG regs (carrying pizza/wine laden passengers on day trips) Heavy but effective probably. I might try getting some quotes. Especially as my lines need replacement and I'm suspicious of the stanchion mounts (one pulled right through the toe rail when I tried to leave the dock with a line wrapped around the lifeline - but we won't go into that here..)
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