Single line reefing

[jwieneck]

I currently have a traditional main with single line slab reefing. The main has two reef points the single line runs from the cockpit to the mast then up to a block back down to the boom then back through the boom to the end of the boom then up to the aft reef ring and down to the boom again. Over the years I have not really liked this system because there is a lot of friction as the main goes up I normally have to pre pull the reef line. The other reason I do not like it is when I reef seem the forward reef point (at the mast) comes down first then as pressure is place on the reefing line it goes through the block and the aft end comes in. This puts a lot of pressure on the main sail car’s I have to help with the main. This last weekend as I put in a reef the pressure popped one of the cars as the stack was pressed down. So I have decide to go to single line reefing one line for the forward reef point and one for the aft reef point which should make this much simpler without stressing the main sail car’s. Has anyone done this? If so how did you run the reefing lines? I have been told to run the forward reef line to the mast then down so it pulls the sail forward some any thoughts on that? Any other thoughts or information would be helpful pictures would be great. Thanks.

 

[Rick D]

I went the other direction ;-) My 40.5 had been modified to traditional. I changed it back to single-line. I found that I had no problems raising the main if I left the reefing lines slack. I just loop them at the mast. I also had some problems with the forward reef block until I re-read the manual and found that the block is not supposed to bottom out. Rather, when fully reefed, the forward block and aft reef clew should be slightly elevated from the boom. in order to do that, the halyard must be pre-marked so that you can let the halyard down to that level which will accomplish it when the reef is pulled in.

Now, I appreciate you already know all that and would just like some input and dispense with all the gratuitous instruction. When mine had been converted, the leech reef lines went directly to the rope clutches and simply bypassed the luff points. There was no horn installed for the luff points; I assume the PO simply tied it off.

Hope this is clear. If not, just ask and I'll see if my feeble mind can recall it better.

 

[Steve Dion]

Our Hunter Vision has a simlar (but not exactly the same) setup as your boat. Do you have the block on the main at the reef point?

I also think that the reefing lines should be a little smaller. I think that they are 7/16" and would probably do better with 3/8".

We spoke with a guy that used to do rigging and he has converted many boats from single line reefing to jiffy reefing.

Before I would get rid of your existing I would try check all of the sheaves/block etc to be sure that they are running smoothly and use a smaller line if yours are 7/16.

Maybe some other owners that have "resolved" these issues will have some other ideas too.

 

[jwieneck]

Rick I think I follow you. I did have the halyard premarked so the forward block and reef point forward came to about 2 inches off the top of the boom at the goose neck. When I stop the halyard there the roller car's on my main are stacked end to end. The issues comes as I continue to put pressure on the reef line to get the aft end down it presses on the block which in ture puts pressure on the car stack i.e. popped a intermediate car off. If the process ran the other way pullling down the aft end first then the tack end (mast end) this may take the pressure off. I have to think about it but I have stood there pulling and pushing to see how to keep this from happening I just cannot figure it out I guess I should get a rigger out before I make a change.

 

[jwieneck]

Steve ya the reef line is a lot smaller and the block is right at the reef point on my main it actually has a reenforced patch and loop on the main not a ring line other mains.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Does your mainsail look like this one( http://www.zsparsuk.com/slrboom.htm ) ? Seems like there should not be a lot of friction or binding.

 

[Rick D]

Mast, one thing to try is what Rich Stidger did (at least I think it was him). As I recall, he put blocks also at the leech and found it was very helpful. That may be worth a whirl before calling a rigger. I have been thinking of doing the same thing. Maybe we can get Rich to weigh in here to clarify.

 

[jwieneck]

Yes and no the aft or luff of the sail only has the ring not a block the forward edge has the blocks and yes I pre pull the lines to keep the friction down

 

[jwieneck]

Steve you maybe right I was thinking that if I put a line around the boom where each reef line is pull down and out using a block secured by the line this my improve the system I am not sure this takes pressure off the cars I will be at the boat on Friday I think I will take some pictures and post them to see if anyone has a better idea or recommendation. Thanks

 

[jwieneck]

One of my reefs (reef 1 )comes down on port reef 2 comes down on starboard

 

[Rick D]

Mast, I think you meant to say the leech (aft) has only a reefing ring. That's the same as mine and one side goes one way and the other opposite as does yours it sounds. This is where Rich put blocks. He has some polymer plug made which would fill the ring and then had a block made to attach to it... at least as best this feeble mind can recall. Anyhow, I think that is a great idea at several levels and would reduce friction a whole lot and address just the issue with which you are frustrated. I may try it too. BTW, I changed the blocks at the reef point at the luff for lower friction ones when I had new sails made and it made a noticeable difference.

 

[Rick D]

Calling SYBARIS; calling SYBARIS....

... Rich Stidger, are you there?? Please take a look at this thread and tell us what you think.

 

[Steve Dion]

I will try to remember to take some pictures of Serenisea2 this weekend. He has a 376 and it appears that they system is working "okay". This 376 does have blocks on the sail.

I will also try to get a photo of mine too. It is slightly different, but it is finally working after 2 years of screwing around with it.

 

[nick8489]

I changed the single line on my H33 for exactly the the same reasons as you MC and now have an excellent system.
I ran new luff lines from the crindles down to two new blocks at the foot of the mast and then back through new clutches either side to the cockpit winches. I used the old single line system through the boom just for the leech control. I thus have the two lines and clutches for the 2nd reef on the port side and those for the 1st on starboard. So the drill to reduce sail is loose off the halyard {pre-mark the position (leaving a bit of slack) with whipping cord} pull in the leech line untill it is on the boom then make sure the luff line is also hard on the boom and then haul up the halyard. Yesterday racing in very gusty 15 to 30 knot Westerlys we changed from full through 1 and 2 reefs a total of six times, a record for me in a 2 hour race!

 

[walmsleyc]

Legend 35:

- Had single line reefing system.
- Not blocks at leech or luff.
- New line, not too big.
- Always hard to reef.
- Always had too much tension on the luff compared to the leech.

Moved to using reefing hooks at the goosneck, and the reefing line for only the leech.

- Halyards are marked so going forward is quick and easy to hook the new tack down.
- The reefing lines are easy to trim now (very very much easier), and I can get the
proper clew tension.

Another alternative (as noted in various other posts) is to use block or other friction reducing devices at the cringles. Additionally, using the double block system in the
boom should work well too. I considered that, but worried about having too many failure point in inaccessable locations.

Chris

 

[Rich Stidger]

Hellooooo,

Yes I am here but was not at my 'puter.

Here is a link with pictures of the reefing modification that Rick Dinon accurately remembered. See my answer #17.

http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=109468

It really does work much better than the factory setup, but I am unhappy with the replacement lines I put on a few years ago. I can't remember what the lines were but they are very stiff and not easy on hands.

I also have the problem that the luff pulls down first and to get the leech down to the boom you really have to crank in on the reefing lines. Pre-marking the halyard is a must.

The best practice I have done is to pull up on the topping life. Then as the halyard is released to drop the mainsail, I pull in on the reefing line. I stop when the halyard is at the mark so that I don't pull the luff block into the guide loops on the mast. Finally I continue to pull the reefing line until the leech is at the boom level. Then I relax the topping lift.

The real key is to pull up on the topping lift BEFORE you start reefing.

I think next Spring I will swap out the reefing lines for something softer and more flexible.

The other key point is that practice makes perfect. If you only reef once or twice a season, it is never going to be smooth or easy.

 

[jwieneck]

Rich see if I have this right you de-power the sail. I normally come up around 60 to the wind if I can then relax the mainsheet and drop the traveler and the vang (my vang is spring loaded). Once the sail is de-powered you pull up on the topping lift then drop the main to the mark. You then pull in the reefing line until both are at the boom. If I have this right what keep the pressure off the car stack at the goose neck is the fact that the main halyard will not allow the sail to come down anymore is that right? So the error I have is I am letting the main down to far this allows the reef line to go below the boom and when I do pull in on the reef line this buts pressure on the stack is that right? To stop this I really just need to move my main halyard mark up so the block is further above the boom because as I crank on the reef line it will be pulled down but the main will stop it this will force the pressure to the aft end of the boom bring in the aft reef segment. Think what I said through iif that is the issue I am working the wrong end of the problem it is not the reef lines it is my main halyard.

And your right most of the time I put the reef in at the mooring and then let it out I only end up reefing on the fly maybe 5 to 6 times a year unless we take a week long trip. I am going to the boat in the morning to take the main down and put may extra main on so I can get the car repaired ( I am luck to have two mains both with a car system) I look at this as a solution

 

[Rich Stidger]

Rich see if I have this right you de-power the sail. <snip> Once the sail is de-powered you pull up on the topping lift then drop the main to the mark. You then pull in the reefing line until both are at the boom.

This is correct.

If I have this right what keep the pressure off the car stack at the goose neck is the fact that the main halyard will not allow the sail to come down anymore is that right?

Absolutely correct.

So the error I have is I am letting the main down to far this allows the reef line to go below the boom and when I do pull in on the reef line this buts pressure on the stack is that right? To stop this I really just need to move my main halyard mark up so the block is further above the boom because as I crank on the reef line it will be pulled down but the main will stop it this will force the pressure to the aft end of the boom bring in the aft reef segment. Think what I said through iif that is the issue I am working the wrong end of the problem it is not the reef lines it is my main halyard.

You got it all correct.

And your right most of the time I put the reef in at the mooring and then let it out I only end up reefing on the fly maybe 5 to 6 times a year unless we take a week long trip. I am going to the boat in the morning to take the main down and put may extra main on so I can get the car repaired ( I am luck to have two mains both with a car system) I look at this as a solution

I think the single-line system is quite workable, but you must perform all the steps above to get it to work right. My problem is that I don't reef frequently, and when I do I tend to forget a step- usually the topping lift- until I am in the middle of the reef process and realize that it's not working......