simple (probably dumb) question - reefing the jib

[patsheridan]

i've got a 24' islander, with a simple hank-on jib. can i "reef" the working jib by simply attaching one of the hank-on points to the base of the forestay, where the tack would normally attach, or would this simply tear away under load.

also, if i can, does this alter the shape of the jib thereby altering the dynamics of how it performs?

i am in the s.f. bay and i am looking to power down with the constant 20+ knot afternoon winds, without the benefit of a furler.

thanks in advance.

 

[kloudie1]

Yes, it would probably tear away.. BUT you can take the sail to a sailmaker and for not much money, get him to put in a properly reinforced grommet for the tack and another for the sheets to tie to. Then you’d slack the halyard, attach the upper tack to the deck and re tie the sheets .. Gather the loose sail bottom and bungee it together so it is not all over the place.

 

[patsheridan]

so claude, am i correct in thinking that the clew (to which the sheets attach) would need to move upward on the sail when reefing the jib, to maintian proper sail shape?

 

[caguy]

Probably cheaper and cleaner to just pick one up on Ebay. I've seen the go for as litttle as $35. Minnie's is also a good source for used sails.

 

[John Nantz]

Open Slot issue

One of the problems with reefing the jib is the slot effect. It wasn't stated what percent jib you have but if it is a "working jib", something around 100%, then there is little to no overlap.

If the jib is then "reefed" then a couple things happen which are not very good. First, the slot effect declines or disappears, and it doesn't take much for that to happen. The second thing that happens is the sail plan and the boat becomes will probably become unbalanced causing a problem with the rudder and helm. This latter problem might be able to be mitigated somewhat by reefing the main because it will decrease the wind load on the sails.

To examine the last problem, if you look at the center of gravity, so to speak, of the two sail areas, the keel, and the rudder, the cumulative effect is there is a change (it moves forward) that will affect the helm and probably won't feel right in strong winds.

I agree with a previous comment that the tack and clew would have to properly be reinforced.

The ideal solution would be to have an innerstay to bring the sail plan inboard/downward and maintain the slot effect but then that brings up other problems like running backs, and if you're trying to save money you can forget it.

Another comment is, if you have a hanked-on sail on the Bay, unless it has been replaced in the last few years, it may be blown out. Getting it recut or replaced with a new/newer one would be beneficial and reduce heeling. Then check the main out too because it may be in the same condition.

 

[Anchor Down]

Which brings you full circle, back to the idea that the most cost-effective solution is to get the grommets sewn in to create a new tack and clew.

I'd get a line of smaller grommets sewn in to use to bundle the loose skirt of sail and run permanent ties through the grommets, say 18" or so hanging down on each side, and stop-knot them on each side of the grommet. A quick reef knot under the bundled sail material & it's tidy.

Sure, slot effect is compromised, and the sail will be well-forward, but it seems that will be less of a problem than being seriously over-canvassed.

 

[Stu Jackson]

In our 12 years with our C25

on SF Bay, we had two jibs, a 110 and an 85. We used the 85 all summer. Get a smaller headsail for high winds.

 

[patsheridan]

thanks all.

regarding the smaller jib reducing the slot effect, i have seen and been on boats with roller furling wherein the jib is rolled to 50, 60, 70% full, and of course the main is reefed as well. i assume this creates the same effect, but it seems quite normal and often used. am i wrong?

i am concluding that under 20+ knot conditions a 10 - 30% smaller jib with a reefed main is just necessary. but does this sail plan effect the sailing of the boat, other than to simply de-power?

thanks again.

 

[patsheridan]

also, stu, did you find yourself furling or shortening the 85% jib?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Nope, never had to

since that was what the 85 was for in the first place; we didn't have roller furling/reefing, just hank on. Small jib, reefed main, fine for even late afternoons in the Slot. Another trick: jib only crossing the Slot from AI to TI. Nicer ride, less fight. Could do it going upwind, too. Just used the jib only on Saturday to watch the Master Mariners.

...and the boat sails better reefed than when over canvassed. That's why they make reefing gear...

 

[patsheridan]

thanks for the tip stu. headin' out today @ noon. smaller jib, reefed main, out to the slot then around angel island toward the back side of racoon straights.

 

[Benny]

There is no proper way of reefing a hancked on jib. If there were, the manufacturers would have incorporated them in their designs back in the 70's. Just thinking of the loose material and hanks flapping on deck give me the willies. Just get yourself a smaller jib for those windy days. What is a 100% jib on a smaller boat could be an 80% for you. Shop around for a used sail you can probably find one in decent shape.

 

[caguy]

Pat you may want to check out some of the postings on home made furlers if money is a issue. You can make one up for about $25.

 

[tsmwebb]

There is no proper way of reefing a hancked on jib. If there were, the manufacturers would have incorporated them in their designs back in the 70's.

That's not quite true. I had a ~115% jib with an extra tack and clew grommet and reef points. It was slab reefed in much the same way as a main. It used to be a fairly common thing to see on cruising boats of the voyaging type pre-roller furling. There are, however, a host of issues that make slab reefing jibs less good than slab reefing mains. For day-sailing just putting up the next smaller jib even if it is a bit too small makes much more sense.

--Tom.

 

[patsheridan]

thanks again all. and caguy, i will definately check out the home-made furler. seems excessive to spend much on a furler for my 24', but it would be useful to have one.

also, stu, you opt for the jib-only as opposed to the main-only when in heavy bay winds on a smaller boat?

 

[kloudie1]

Working at boat = Late reply
Slab reefing of the genoa used to be really common like Tom said and yes the clew has to come up to keep the shape correct.. The line of reef grommets for ties was normal to keep the loose sail in check on deck. This is the least expensive option.. Roller furling is great too but a hanked on sail would have to have a good bit of modification at the sailmaker to make it sorta maintain shape as it is furled.. And of course you can buy a smaller sail too.. there are two good things that slab reefing has over roller furling .. one is that the sail center of effort is lower for the same sail area, which makes less heel. The other is that the sail shape is generally MUCH better slab reefed .. Have fun, Patsheridan

 

[Stu Jackson]

also, stu, you opt for the jib-only as opposed to the main-only when in heavy bay winds on a smaller boat?

"Jib only" is easier for me even on the C25 with hanks, and on our C34 with a furler, and is better for almost all points of sail for a masthead rigged boat because it's the "driver" as far as sails go. It's not worth retyping all the discussions about jib vs. main if you choose only one sail - you can look up all the previous postings on this subject. My C22, C25, and C34 all work great on just the jib on ALL points of sail. The main is slower on a masthead rigged boat and can ALSO be used as a single sail from maybe close-reach, to a run, lousy upwind, but slow and useable if you choose.

Instead of taking my work for it, why not simply TRY IT OUT on your boat?

As far as home made furlers are concerned, Maurice Griffiths, an Englishman who wrote wonderful books about sailing the North Sea between WWI and WWII, wrote a lot about the "Markham Walker" [I think, or something like that, don't have time to check the specific name right now] furling gear which was used for hank on jibs. That was over 70 years ago. Somehow, the "technology" died for 50 years and was revived in the 70s and 80s by Harken and others. Maybe by folks who were interested in sailing and actually read books!

 

[Don Guillette]

I was hoping I had the solution to your problem. Before purchasing a Catalina30 many years ago I had a catalina25 with a hank on jib. Since the jib was either up or down I did not like to go forward on the small deck to drop the jib. Since 95% of the time I was single handling the boat this could be a tricky situation. I got pretty good at reading the weather because I had to.

I solved the problem by adding a hank on toller furler made by a company in Fullerton, Ca. I did a google search and sadly that company appears to be out of business. The google search did not turn up any companies that I could find that made a hank on roller furler.

I can tell you that the system I had was really slick and very easy to install and use.

 

[patsheridan]

thanks stu. i will use the jib by itself next time conditions dictate; i am sure it will work well.

 

[PShera]

yes, you can. BUT you need to reinforce the clew point where you will attach the sheets when reefed, and reinforce where the new tack is. It is also best to install some cringles (reinforced grommets) along the foot of the sail in line between the new tacked clew and tack. Bundle and tie the foot of the sail through newly installed cringles along the foot of the sail. I have an old 140 genoa with hanks which has been used on my Catalina 30 this way many times. Be aware that the now-heavy foot and clew will become a lethal weapon if allowed to flog in higher winds. This is slower and cheaper to "reef" than changing to a smaller headsail, but better than being overpowered or bareheaded.