So have finally purchased the loos gauge and you would not beleive it but using the "KINGS" ( known to most of us as Crazy Dave)advice the actual tension on the uppers and lowers was that close it did not matter./ (thanks Crazy) But just as a matter of interest I am still finding going to wind a rather slow and painfull experiance. On a broad reach not a problem. 6-61/2 knots is common but head her up into the wind on the same day within a few minutes of cruising at 6 knots and the speed drops to a dismal 3-4 knots. Sails trimmed as good as you can get. So I checked the forestay yesterday and sure enough it is sagging, not much mind you but there is a definaite sag. So my question is how can I put more tension on the forestay without putting more on the shrouds. The answer I guess is that can not be done! But I am still open to any suggestions.
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R
Ray Bowles
Mark, I've got an articule I'll forward. Ray
Mark, I've tried to E-mail you twice but I'll do it again right now. Also I've a new articule about forestay sag that might help. Ray My E-mail address is bigadventure@theofficenet.com I don't know if you must as country ID to the end of that adddress
Mark, I've tried to E-mail you twice but I'll do it again right now. Also I've a new articule about forestay sag that might help. Ray My E-mail address is bigadventure@theofficenet.com I don't know if you must as country ID to the end of that adddress
B
Brian
I'd like to read the article as well
Ray, could you please send it to me? I would truly appreicate it. brianb9836 AT msn.com (Replace AT with @) Thanks alot!
Ray, could you please send it to me? I would truly appreicate it. brianb9836 AT msn.com (Replace AT with @) Thanks alot!
Here's a quick way to do it
Increase the jib halyard tension. Use the winch if you have one available. If not you can try raising the sailas far as it will go by hand, secure the halyard, then grab the middle and pull to one side. You should get a few inches of slack, which you can remove by pulling the halyard down. I believe it's called "sweating" the halyard. I'm also curious...the H260 is a trailerable, so the lower end of the forestay is removable. Isn't there a turnbuckle there? H23's have one. Peter H23 "Raven"
Increase the jib halyard tension. Use the winch if you have one available. If not you can try raising the sailas far as it will go by hand, secure the halyard, then grab the middle and pull to one side. You should get a few inches of slack, which you can remove by pulling the halyard down. I believe it's called "sweating" the halyard. I'm also curious...the H260 is a trailerable, so the lower end of the forestay is removable. Isn't there a turnbuckle there? H23's have one. Peter H23 "Raven"
M
Mark
Yes Peter "but"
There is the turnbuckle for the forestay but that is simply to apply correct rake. Once the degree of rake is achieved the forestay should be left alone.
There is the turnbuckle for the forestay but that is simply to apply correct rake. Once the degree of rake is achieved the forestay should be left alone.
I'm not so sure Mark . . . let's talk rig tuning
First, mast rake is set using the forestay while keeping the shrouds loose. The only tension in the forestay is the load needed to keep the mast from falling over backwards under its own weight. It's not much - you can pull the mast forward easily with just a hand on the forestay. Then the shrouds are tensioned to support the mast and keep it in place. Ordinarily, the upper shrouds are tensioned until the leeward shroud won't go slack when sailing close-hauled. This process also tensions the forestay because it s now having to counteract the aft pull from both shrouds. However, the rake of the mast HASN'T changed, because the forestay didn't stretch very much under the increased tension. Even if the forestay stretched half an inch (which I doubt), the rake won't change. If this is true, then adding a couple more turns on the forestay turnbuckle at this stage will increase its tension and eliminate the sag, but its length WON'T change, the masthead WON'T move...and the rake won't change. Why? Because the added forestay tension is being resisted by the upper shrouds. Shroud tension will go up a bit but not much, because there are TWO shrouds and only one forestay. Finally, you've probably heard me say this before but I'm going to say it again. Mast rake is not the huge deal some people make it out to be. The relative position of CE to CLR is only one contributor to balance, and it's not the most influential...mainsail trim is. Hunter mainsails are very powerful, so easing the mainsheet slightly (especially in gusts) will depower the mainsail relative to the headsail. This also reduces heeling force and move the CE forward. Moving crew weight to the windward side of the cockpit will reduce heel and can eliminate a lot of weather helm too. These are simple yet effective and EASILY REVERSIBLE adjustments and are the first things you should try because you can do them without leaving the cockpit. If the wind picks up, go to the next level. Depower the main by tightening the halyard, outhaul and cunningham, bend the mast some more with the backstay if you can or tuck in a reef, Now yo have to leave the cockpit, but again, these adjustments are easily reversible. I've learned that I can sail with a big, ugly (yet temporary) bubble in the luff of the main and still blow past boats with textbook-looking sails that were rail-down, dragging a huge wake behind a rudder more than 30 degrees off-center. The trick is to know how the boat feels when it's sailing right and trim to create that feel. Happy sailing and g'day, mate. Peter H23 "Raven"
First, mast rake is set using the forestay while keeping the shrouds loose. The only tension in the forestay is the load needed to keep the mast from falling over backwards under its own weight. It's not much - you can pull the mast forward easily with just a hand on the forestay. Then the shrouds are tensioned to support the mast and keep it in place. Ordinarily, the upper shrouds are tensioned until the leeward shroud won't go slack when sailing close-hauled. This process also tensions the forestay because it s now having to counteract the aft pull from both shrouds. However, the rake of the mast HASN'T changed, because the forestay didn't stretch very much under the increased tension. Even if the forestay stretched half an inch (which I doubt), the rake won't change. If this is true, then adding a couple more turns on the forestay turnbuckle at this stage will increase its tension and eliminate the sag, but its length WON'T change, the masthead WON'T move...and the rake won't change. Why? Because the added forestay tension is being resisted by the upper shrouds. Shroud tension will go up a bit but not much, because there are TWO shrouds and only one forestay. Finally, you've probably heard me say this before but I'm going to say it again. Mast rake is not the huge deal some people make it out to be. The relative position of CE to CLR is only one contributor to balance, and it's not the most influential...mainsail trim is. Hunter mainsails are very powerful, so easing the mainsheet slightly (especially in gusts) will depower the mainsail relative to the headsail. This also reduces heeling force and move the CE forward. Moving crew weight to the windward side of the cockpit will reduce heel and can eliminate a lot of weather helm too. These are simple yet effective and EASILY REVERSIBLE adjustments and are the first things you should try because you can do them without leaving the cockpit. If the wind picks up, go to the next level. Depower the main by tightening the halyard, outhaul and cunningham, bend the mast some more with the backstay if you can or tuck in a reef, Now yo have to leave the cockpit, but again, these adjustments are easily reversible. I've learned that I can sail with a big, ugly (yet temporary) bubble in the luff of the main and still blow past boats with textbook-looking sails that were rail-down, dragging a huge wake behind a rudder more than 30 degrees off-center. The trick is to know how the boat feels when it's sailing right and trim to create that feel. Happy sailing and g'day, mate. Peter H23 "Raven"
Peter
I agree with a lot of your advice however the 240 and 260 have no back stay. I have added a cunningham on my 240 but it doesn't come with one. If you have a cdi furler you can't sweat the halyard in the manner you describe due to it's internal run and line size. We often race with a reefed main up wind to keep the boat flat and shake it out at the turning mark. The main halyard is marked so the adjustments can be made quickly. The 240 and 260 go to winward much better with a full jib and a reefed main than a partial furl in the jib and a full main. Just my 2 cents Sean Coerse 1998 H240 "Right Coerse"
I agree with a lot of your advice however the 240 and 260 have no back stay. I have added a cunningham on my 240 but it doesn't come with one. If you have a cdi furler you can't sweat the halyard in the manner you describe due to it's internal run and line size. We often race with a reefed main up wind to keep the boat flat and shake it out at the turning mark. The main halyard is marked so the adjustments can be made quickly. The 240 and 260 go to winward much better with a full jib and a reefed main than a partial furl in the jib and a full main. Just my 2 cents Sean Coerse 1998 H240 "Right Coerse"
Hi Sean
The H23 rig can be tuned drum-tight as I described with the backstay COMPLETELY disconnected. This is because the shroud chainplates are aft of the mast step. The mast is supported by forestay and shrouds only. All the H23 backstay does is bend/bow the mast. Since the B&R rig is similar to the H23 rig in terms of shroud/chainplate location, it seems to me that tensioning the forestay cannot move the masthead forward because of the opposing pull from the shrouds. Have I completely missed the mark regarding the aft sweep of the shrouds? Do the shrouds and forestay all attach to the same point on the mast? Has anyone tried to tension the forestay AFTER the shrouds have been properly tensioned? If the masthead moves forward (reduced rake) when the forestay is tensioned then the shrouds could NOT have been properly tensioned. Peter H23 "Raven"
The H23 rig can be tuned drum-tight as I described with the backstay COMPLETELY disconnected. This is because the shroud chainplates are aft of the mast step. The mast is supported by forestay and shrouds only. All the H23 backstay does is bend/bow the mast. Since the B&R rig is similar to the H23 rig in terms of shroud/chainplate location, it seems to me that tensioning the forestay cannot move the masthead forward because of the opposing pull from the shrouds. Have I completely missed the mark regarding the aft sweep of the shrouds? Do the shrouds and forestay all attach to the same point on the mast? Has anyone tried to tension the forestay AFTER the shrouds have been properly tensioned? If the masthead moves forward (reduced rake) when the forestay is tensioned then the shrouds could NOT have been properly tensioned. Peter H23 "Raven"
The H23 backstay....for Sean
The H23 backstay bends the mast, nothing more, When rigged with an adjuster (it's a simple modification) all I do is pull a line to tension the backstay and bend the mast. This flattens the main and opens the leech at the same time, effectively depowering the top third to half of the sail (depending on wind speed and amount of mast bend). It's the same effect as reefing, except it's faster and infinitely adjustable. After rounding the windward mark, the backstay tensioning line is eased, the sail deepens and the leech closes to provide more power off the wind. Nobody has to move and in a couple of seconds I have the full main back. Nice... Peter H23 "Raven"
The H23 backstay bends the mast, nothing more, When rigged with an adjuster (it's a simple modification) all I do is pull a line to tension the backstay and bend the mast. This flattens the main and opens the leech at the same time, effectively depowering the top third to half of the sail (depending on wind speed and amount of mast bend). It's the same effect as reefing, except it's faster and infinitely adjustable. After rounding the windward mark, the backstay tensioning line is eased, the sail deepens and the leech closes to provide more power off the wind. Nobody has to move and in a couple of seconds I have the full main back. Nice... Peter H23 "Raven"
Sean is correct…
You can’t tension the forestay (on the fly) because the roller furler covers the entire turnbuckle. Reefing the main would be the first thing I would try as well. One last thing – in a light wind, the H26260 gains about 5 degrees to windward if you can pull the boom to windward. Not being rigged with a traveler doesn’t make that easy – another project to consider.
You can’t tension the forestay (on the fly) because the roller furler covers the entire turnbuckle. Reefing the main would be the first thing I would try as well. One last thing – in a light wind, the H26260 gains about 5 degrees to windward if you can pull the boom to windward. Not being rigged with a traveler doesn’t make that easy – another project to consider.
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