When I bought my 30 it had blisters. I did alot of reading about them before I made an offer. I am happy I got my boat. I do dive it often just to look for blisters. The boat had been very well maintained and lots of extras on her. If your happy with the boat do not pass it by for blisters. There are alot worse things. If I was a seller I would not haul out for everyone that is looking. At least where I am at they charge for a haul out. I keep dive gear they would be welcome to it.
Should I walk or reduce offer?
- Thread starter MH
- Start date
speedup, have you ever sold a catalina 30 in the water without a buyer insisting on a haul?
as soon as the second boat i saw was hauled i knew she was mine pending a survey. so did the seller. the seller of the first boat i saw would not haul, and did not sell for almost at least two years. part of selling is determining who is a real buyer and who is not. of course i would not haul for 'any buyer who came along.'
as soon as the second boat i saw was hauled i knew she was mine pending a survey. so did the seller. the seller of the first boat i saw would not haul, and did not sell for almost at least two years. part of selling is determining who is a real buyer and who is not. of course i would not haul for 'any buyer who came along.'
At least for every transaction I've heard of, the potential buyer pays the haulout costs as part of the survey. Certainly I've never paid for one as a seller and have always paid for one as a buyer, and have never heard of it being done otherwise. Of course, as a seller you could pay for it if you *wanted to,* but with all of the "tire kickers" ("hull kickers"?) out there you'd go broke in a hurry!
I always wondered why a seller would not go ahead and have a survey done before listing his boat. He can then fix any issues and list what was not done. I know as a buyer I would pass on boats that I was on the fence due to not wanting to pay for haul out and survey costs. Having a recent survey there on the boat would attract more offers and a better price. Just my 2 pennies.
Do you really think your due diligence is satisfied based on a seller's survey?
I suspect most people do not which speaks to the answer to your question.
Corollary - why would a seller offer information to a prospective buyer which would potentially prevent a sale?
We agreed on $25,500 which is $500 below appraised value "as is". Will probably have many more questions once I close on it. Thanks for the many comments.
Yeah, nothing like the same boat having 10 surveys done by prospective buyers.....the surveyors love it. I looked at over 15 boats last year. If I had to pay haul out and survey fees I would have nothing left to purchase. I don't believe any surveyor would risk his reputation by turning a blind eye when surveying his "buddies" boat. I would think a seller would want to know about the problems and either fix them or adjust his price accordingly. Just saying, if the seller has a recent survey for the potential buyer to look at from day one, they are more likely to negotiate and not just walk away.
I cant agree more. Just like buying a house. Buyer can if they like have an inspection done at their expence. I do think as a seller we should have as much information for the buyer. I sold my 27 footer and the buyer did not want to spend time and money for a survey. I told him all I knew was not perfect. I told him it had been almost 7 years since last haul out and I recomened a bottom job at least. I did have it priced accordingly. I either sold to low or priced just right. First looker at it and he went the bank came back with the check. Unusual, yes but I think price and I showed receipts and it was from at least waterline up in great shape.
Good point. It seems when it comes to boats, it's like "you have to pay to find out what's wrong with my boat"......since I don't and want to know myself"
m25xp, 1000 hoursCongratulations, you'll LOVE that boat. Great find, I know how you felt when you were looking, and how much damn FUN it is finding "The RIGHT One."
What engine does it have?
x2, congrats...
have you decided on a name for her ?
Very good MH congratulations. I think you will be happy. Keep us posted. The great thing about this forum is we all might agree or disagree but all bring ideas and different experiences that we all can learn from.
well... this is not a fair assessment at all!
it could be, that for every perspective buyer looking at the boat, if the owner had to pay to haul the boat to show it, then it could get VERY expensive for him, especially when there is no guarantee the perspective buyer will buy it even if the hull is perfect....
its up to the buyer to look at the hull if he wants to... or not, if he doesnt. the buyer has to have to have it hauled to do a proper survey anyway...
but what can happen is this... the buyer should already know the condition of the bottom(as well as the actual condition of the rest of the boat), so after disclosing what he knows to be fact to the buyer, and if it sounds reasonably acceptable to the buyer, an agreement can be made between the seller and the buyer.
The agreement could be such that if the bottom is NOT up to par with what the seller disclosed, THEN the seller assumes the cost of hauling the boat. and the perspective buyer pays nothing, other than a show up fee for the surveyor.... and everyone goes home:cry:
but if all is acceptable, the survey commences and the buyer pays the bill...
its not fool proof but it would help weed out the lookers who may insist on seeing the bottom, but are not as interested in the boat as they should be when somebody else is paying the hoist fees involved, and it could greatly reduce the perspective buyers cost when looking at several boats. its the only fair way to do it
no matter how you look at it, its an expensive thing to deal in boats, no matter if your buying or selling.
those that say they actually make money buying and selling used boats are VERY, VERY rare... or they are ignorant to the actual costs they have incurred, OR they are just plain old Liars!
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I had the opportunity to work in a Pawn shop when I was in the ninth grade. The one thing I learned from the owner is "It's all in the buy". If your going to make money you have to buy low.well... this is not a fair assessment at all!
it could be, that for every perspective buyer looking at the boat, if the owner had to pay to haul the boat to show it, then it could get VERY expensive for him, especially when there is no guarantee the perspective buyer will buy it even if the hull is perfect....
its up to the buyer to look at the hull if he wants to... or not, if he doesnt. the buyer has to have to have it hauled to do a proper survey anyway...
but what can happen is this... the buyer should already know the condition of the bottom(as well as the actual condition of the rest of the boat), so after disclosing what he knows to be fact to the buyer, and if it sounds reasonably acceptable to the buyer, an agreement can be made between the seller and the buyer.
The agreement could be such that if the bottom is NOT up to par with what the seller disclosed, THEN the seller assumes the cost of hauling the boat. and the perspective buyer pays nothing, other than a show up fee for the surveyor.... and everyone goes home:cry:
but if all is acceptable, the survey commences and the buyer pays the bill...
its not fool proof but it would help weed out the lookers who may insist on seeing the bottom, but are not as interested in the boat as they should be when somebody else is paying the hoist fees involved, and it could greatly reduce the perspective buyers cost when looking at several boats. its the only fair way to do it
no matter how you look at it, its an expensive thing to deal in boats, no matter if your buying or selling.
those that say they make money buying and selling used boats are VERY, VERY rare... or they are ignorant to the actual costs they have incurred, or they are just plain old Liars!
I take exception to your inaccurate statement that a sailor cannot make money buying & selling boats. I have made good money buying & selling every one of my boats, even taking into account the costs of necessary repairs & maintenance. As the last post stated its about buying low & selliing high. Many unknowing sailors simply pay too much for thier boats because they are green, & don't understand required maintenance. I bought my 1st boat an 1985 C 25 for $1,200. A put in about $1,500. to fix the keel trunk, recovered cushions, etc. & sold her for $7,500. That's a profit of nearly 5k. I then bought an S 2 28 ft. yacht for 5k, a good deal & did similar renovations & standard engine maintenance & sold her for $12,000. That's a profit of nearly 6k. I then bought our current C 30 for 9k, put in about 2k to bring her up to snuff, & will sell her for around 20 k when I'm ready. It's all about knowing what to look for: a good boat with a good keel, hull, working engine & sails, an attractive cabin, & regular maintenace performed. The boat can be a little dirty, & may need a haulout & bottom job, which helps to drive the price down up front.well... this is not a fair assessment at all!
it could be, that for every perspective buyer looking at the boat, if the owner had to pay to haul the boat to show it, then it could get VERY expensive for him, especially when there is no guarantee the perspective buyer will buy it even if the hull is perfect....
its up to the buyer to look at the hull if he wants to... or not, if he doesnt. the buyer has to have to have it hauled to do a proper survey anyway...
but what can happen is this... the buyer should already know the condition of the bottom(as well as the actual condition of the rest of the boat), so after disclosing what he knows to be fact to the buyer, and if it sounds reasonably acceptable to the buyer, an agreement can be made between the seller and the buyer.
The agreement could be such that if the bottom is NOT up to par with what the seller disclosed, THEN the seller assumes the cost of hauling the boat. and the perspective buyer pays nothing, other than a show up fee for the surveyor.... and everyone goes home:cry:
but if all is acceptable, the survey commences and the buyer pays the bill...
its not fool proof but it would help weed out the lookers who may insist on seeing the bottom, but are not as interested in the boat as they should be when somebody else is paying the hoist fees involved, and it could greatly reduce the perspective buyers cost when looking at several boats. its the only fair way to do it
no matter how you look at it, its an expensive thing to deal in boats, no matter if your buying or selling.
those that say they actually make money buying and selling used boats are VERY, VERY rare... or they are ignorant to the actual costs they have incurred, OR they are just plain old Liars!
As far as I'm concerned marine surveyors are a waste of money & are for suckers. I work as a professional building inspector, & I have never seen so many errors & ommissions as what the average surveyor gets away with. They typically do not run engines or generators, etc. if the boat is on the hard. They also do not typically go up the mast & thoroughly inspect the standing & running rigging. That means they have missed half of the major boat systems. Get a copy of the invaluable book "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" by Don Casey, which contains a complete guide to yacht inspection, & a flashlight & rubber hammer to sound the decks & you'll likely do just as good a job as a typical surveyor.
Your $$ are better spent on a haulout & use your own eyes to see defects in the hull to keel joint, & running gear. etc. I do routinely hire a marine mechanic to perform a compression test of inboard engine cylinder health (or lack there of) & have a Pro. rigger go up the mast to give me an accurate assessment of the mast & rigging. This $200.00 of advice is still cheaper then an incomplete survey & is a lot more accurate.
You can indeed make maney on buying & selling sailboats, while upgrading,
if you are prudent, use common sense, & have an understanding of marine & mechanical systems; and that is no lie!