Should I switch to Sail

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Feb 26, 2004
22,982
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
...and I want to make sure I can visit places further than 20miles and not just visit places within 20 miles of our marina. I would get board of those locations really quick.
Andy, I've been sailing on San Francisco Bay for over 25 years. Most of my day sails are from 10 to 25 nm. That means I get to go to many of the same places over and over again. And I love them all: Angel Island, Clipper Cove, and all the other anchorages I frequent and frequently use and return to. Other longer trips are out the Gate up and down the coast, up to the Delta on week long jaunts.

If you want to go further afield maybe sailing isn't for you if you want or need to not get bored. The folks have almost all mentioned "it's the journey." It's really a state of mind. That's a MAJOR thought process difference.

If you do want to go further afield, then consider moving your boat weekend by weekend further away. Heck, you only have to drive another 10 to 20 miles to car-hop.
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
You will NEVER go 30 mph on any sailboat that you can sleep on! You can figure about 6-7 kts on a 32' sailboat (wind/no-wind sails/no-sails). A little faster if there is wind.

You can calculate the cost of using a motor on a sailboat to approx $3-4/hr under power (approx 1 gal/hr). If you calculate your annual fuel cost in the purchase of a new boat you can afford to spend a lot more on a sailboat vs. power.

I would suggest that you look at an older sailboat of a larger size for a family of 5. A boat in the 35-40' range can last you forever. If you kids are still growing they are going to need more space (so will you).

You can handle much heavier weather on a sailboat than you can in a powerboat. If the winds pipe up, you can reduce your sail and still move along a a very good pace.

Once you start sailing you will wonder why you did not do this sooner!

Be sure that EVERYONE in the family takes lessons. The kids will learn faster than their parents.
 
Jun 10, 2004
135
Hunter 30_74-83 Shelburne
There is a question in the title of your post. The answer is yes.

Now, for the rest of your questions, I want you to visualize being disappointed with virtually all of the actual measurable sail to power comparisons you have laid out, plus others. Almost all of your concerns are based on speed, range and transport utility.

You have already quantified the only one of those metrics that will improve (MPG), with the possible exception of heavy storm seaworthiness. You're question about being able to use your motor during a storm (you can) is cool to me because as a life long sailor I always have wondered how power boaters have the guts to depend on just one motor while boating in dangerous weather. Very different outlooks, but not in a bad way, just what we've learned by experiences.

If you can imagine having to check ALL your speed and transport efficiency expectations at the dock, only then will you have a chance at sailboat satisfaction in my opinion.

Get the sailboat, but you've got to treat it more like snow skiing vs water skiing - they are that much different.

Here's some minor pleasures I enjoy from having been a life long sailor.

Less danger from self inflicted collisions and equipment failure requiring a tow- my parents shared the skippering responsibilities with us kids, took longer adventures and later trusted me and my brothers and sister with the boat ourselves much more readily than one with a lot of horses. My kids are old enough to take out the boat now, even if they just go for a short daysail, they love the independence and as you said there's no gas bills so the extra use while I'm not on it doesn't cost any extra.

The total absence of engine noise while sailing. It's great for relaxing, listening to music, eating , having cocktails all while slowly cruising either to a destination or just messing about.

The ability to have a blast on days when the swells seem to make most of the under 30 foot power boats stay at the docks or on their trailers.

The extra element of complexity and skill required to sail. Don't take this as snobbishness, most anyone who put's their mind to it can master competent cruising. I mean it in the same way that mountain climbers, cross country skiers, and snow shoers etc. find the challenges of their sports personally exhilarating and less boring than walking or jogging.

I could go on forever just as you probably find lots of stuff unique to powerboating quite rewarding, and the things I list above probably seem like they only have subtle improvement potential over your experience on your powerboat and you might even see some as detriments.

Don't go completely cold turkey on the joys of motorboating either. Budget for and buy a nice inflatable dingy with a good sized reliable outboard for your dink. If your family likes being towed behind your boat on various things, keep the ones that can be towed behind your sailboat and inflatable. I don't have the dough but one of my friends has a big sailboat AND a fast little no cabin runabout for his occasional need for speed.

I personally love being invited out for some speed boating, it's a blast, but it's interesting that motors have only been on personal boats for the last 70 or 80 years or so. When wondering whether you'll get enjoyment from sailing vs. motorboating, imagine you were born in one of the thousands of other years before that, do you think you and your family would have left the oceans and lakes to us sailors, or do think you might have seen the attraction and had some fun? I try to spend less time deciding what I do and don't like and look for the laughs and thrills in everything.
 
Jun 3, 2004
130
Seaward 24 Indianapolis
Sailboats are slow. If you need to get somewhere in a hurry then they aren't for you. Your wife may never grow out of the fear of heeling....mine hasn't.
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
ok----i have been sailing most of my life--since age 7. i have also owned and operated stinkpots----lol-----i prefer the ragbagging-----i own a formosa 41. love it.....you will find there is much less room in the 32 ft sailboat----lots less room. i donot know the storage capacity of a hunter---i donot like the modern looking boats. they all look same to me. i swhy i have an antique leaky teaky--is not a same same kind of boat like catahunterbenelina.......but many do like the look--is kinda euro looking.....there is a lot of room inside a hunter....i wouldnt ever take it across an ocean, but is good in gulf and caribean.....and florida....they do sail fast-----mebbe get 9 kts in a good storm....
sailing isnt a magical mystery--is easier then many say--try motor sailing with jib first, if ye donot take lessons--ye need to know wind and current well as the engine isnt full of POWAH!! --is just to get ye out of troubles and into tight places......ye will have to remember the keel is longer than the hull of yer powah boat......keeps it upright in waters.....ye will have a good time----wont cost as much to travel in a sailboat as it did in a powah boat-----who knows-- ye might even like it!!!
i agree--do a charter first--find out how the boat moves and what is going on before ye buy--mebbe ye will even grow to love a boat that doesnt say hunter on it--is alll up to you and mrs you.......have fun!!!
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,468
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Tim
If I could do arithematic I would have been an accountant. I was figuring 24 hrs. times 7 knots. 168 miles as the upper range.
Andy,
You would avoid powering into large waves on a sailboat. Therein lies a big difference. You can't power your way out of trouble with a sailboat. You need to be more wary and avoid situations that will be uncomfortable. Here, where we have significant current, I usually travel with the current. It just better. Some days while cruising are travel days and others aren't. I'm not alone. After a day or two in port awaiting storms to clear, and when that weather window opens, at first light you will see the sailors en masse making tracks. They won't be drifting around with the sails up and no wind. They'll be motoring for the tide at flank speed. In the in the PM they'll be sailing with smiles. I've beat myself senseless motoring into waves and I hope I never do it again. You have to be flexible enough to change plans. That means for many l
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,818
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
Charter

Only because you have always been apower boater you and wife and family should try it out before buying.
Try it for a year first and than see how you and family like it or not,it is alot to learn at first but most fall in love.
I did some small boat sailing while still power boating and fell in love with Hobie Cats and now a newer Hunter 36 with in-mast and all the extra's.
Nick
 

RECESS

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Dec 20, 2003
1,505
Pearson 323 . St. Mary's Georgia
The only thing I can add is sailing is enjoying the art of going places very slowly. Even in a blow your heart is racing when you are going 12 knots..... which is a whooping 14 mph. You have to really love sailing for the sake of sailing.

I do not mind getting places very slowly, the whole purpose of being out there is to leave the "race" of daily life behind.

We have a few wives at our club that will never adjust to sailing, but 90% of them love it even though very few of them will actually captain the boat or take a watch. It is a beautiful boat that you take to beautiful locations, most people women and men can get onboard with that concept.
 
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Jan 2, 2009
93
Gulfstar 50 ketch holland
You can also sail all day all night to get to your destination cooking ,eating and sleeping in shifts around the clock . I took a 37 c from your bay to holland straight in one day and a overnight. It was a nice trip if you like sailing? Try walking the docks start talking someone will take you out for a ride.
 

druid

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Apr 22, 2009
837
Ontario 32 Pender Harbour
Welcome to ragboting!

At one point I thought I might trade my sailboat for a powerboat, but realized... I already have one! Most sailboats make excellent trawler-style powerboats. They're much more comfortable than a high-speed powerboat, especially in heavier weather. So, even if they only cruise at 6 knots, you can go for 12 hrs or so if you want to get somewhere.

But in heavier weather, a sailboat is MUCH more stable under sail than under power, so we will sail through storms. Again, you'll find a sailboat under sail MUCH more comfortable than a powerboat. Remember, some powerboats have a "steadying sail".

But as others have said, in a sailboat it's not about the destination. Many times I go "out there", and my destination for the night is where I end up around 6pm. My "definition of cruising" came one day I was sailing out from Secret Cove, and a guy in another sailboat asked me to take some pics of his boat (yes, you can talk to people on OTHER sailboats when under sail without your VHF). After circling each other for a while and snapping some pics, I asked where he's headed. He looks past his bow to where the boat's pointing and says "looks like Lasquitti!" :D

Not THAT's cruising!
druid
 
Jun 30, 2004
446
Hunter 340 St Andrews Bay
Charter and face the wind! Andy, as others suggested-take a charter. Contact John Gauthier and take a charter out of Racine.
http://www.greatlakessailingcharters.com/page2.html

Second comment-your worries about storms? As a sailor, it SCARES me to be on a powerboat! What if the engine quits, what if the prop comes off, what if you run out of fuel! Sailboats can be jury rigged to make way in most weather, but when the motor boat quits motoring....! The sailboat can usually take more than you can!
 
May 23, 2007
1,306
Catalina Capri 22 Albany, Oregon
So the one thing I haven't really seen addressed in all the responses is Andy's wife's aversion to heeling. With that in mind I'm going to suggest that maybe two charter trips are in order - one on a monohull and, especially if his wife really can't stand the heeling, a second run on a cat or trimaran. A multihull is also likely to be somewhat faster than an equivalent monohull so may help assuage any "need for speed" left over from his powerboat days.
 

Gail R

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Apr 22, 2009
261
Pearson 34 Freeport, ME
Andy... please, please take the advice of TimR and like-minded sailors here. Before you even consider investing $80K in a sailboat, you and your family should go sailing on OPBs (other people's boats) a few times to see if you are even going to like it. You mentioned your wife doesn't like heeling but you think she'd get used to it. While that MAY hold true, you can't really count on it. There are countless stories here and elsewhere of people whose wives and kids have never gotten used to heeling and all the other stuff that goes along with sailing.

I'm compelled to respond to something else that someone brought up regarding sailing in foul conditions. A few here said (or at least implied) that they douse sail completely in high wind/waves. We've found that keeping the main up helps to stabilize the boat when the seas are lumpy. Now this could apply in light wind or heavier wind; in the latter case the main would be reefed. We do douse all sails for a thunderstorm or something really nasty, but I think that's more because the skipper hates putting away wet sails!

But again, Andy, try sailing on someone else's boat before taking the big plunge.
 
Jun 8, 2004
853
Pearson 26W Marblehead
should I switch to sail my 2c

Ive got 50 years experience 48 of them have been in sailboats: first you mentioned 2-3 day
weekends and wanting to explore lots of different places more than 20 miles from home.

Its not going to happen in a sailboat. As mentioned before, most powerboats have a destination and like to explore lots of places in a short time. Most sailors are interested in the sport of sailing as opposed to picking out a destination and going there. Sailors usually start out with no destination in mind. When they set sail they are already at their destination. Sailing is a sport. A Motorboat is a vehicle. very very different.

And finally I assume that you are a women. In my 50 years Ive found very few women that
truly like sailing. You say you want to sail, Im not sure what your reasons are. But please before you go out and buy a sailboat charter one for a month this will give you enough time to find out if its for you.
 

Gail R

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Apr 22, 2009
261
Pearson 34 Freeport, ME
And finally I assume that you are a women. In my 50 years Ive found very few women that
truly like sailing. You say you want to sail, Im not sure what your reasons are. But please before you go out and buy a sailboat charter one for a month this will give you enough time to find out if its for you.
Interesting assumption, considering this other post from Andy K:
05-06-2010, 12:52 pm #16 (permalink) andy k
Sea Ray 260 sundancer
Wisconsin


Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7




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My wife hates the sunfish, her dad has a 21 ft hunter and she only likes it when that boat is level. :cry: , however I love when the boat heels, I guess once she gets used to it she will be fine
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OldCat

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Jul 26, 2005
728
Catalina , Nacra 5.8, Laser, Hobie Hawk Wonmop, CO
Probably Not

IMHO - you should probably not switch to sailing unless you like sailing - and have other family members who like it. It helps if the other family members are at least OK with sailing. One cheap way to find out is to either go sailing with a friend a few times, or take a basic keel boat sailing course. You can find a sailing school here: http://www.american-sailing.com/

The course(s) will also give you a lot of safety info specific to sailboats. Another reasonable cost approach is to charter a boat (30-40 ft) WITH a captain/instructor - take your whole family out and and see how it goes. Without sailing experience or certifications - they are very unlikely to charter you a sailboat alone. Many of the sailing schools listed in the link above will be able to do this.

OC
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,578
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
Sailing

Lot's of good questions, Andy - here are some of my ideas:

Storm conditions. A 33 foot sailboat is a whole lot stronger and more stable than a power boat, especially when it is sailing. 5 foot waves are just a good day, while 10 foot waves imply gale force winds. There are a number of tactics to keep you and yours safe in a gale, for instance, sailing on a reach along the waves. When the weather is up, though, you will have more power and stability sailing than motoring. Honestly, with modern weather radar and forecsting, we have only been in thunder storms 3 times in 10 summers, including crossing Lake Erie about 35 times.

It takes us about a half hour to load the boat, and get underway when we arrive. We could do the same on return, but usually take a slower pace over about an hour.

For a number of reasons, many of use are very happy in sailboats from the 70's or 80's. Water intrusion in the usually wooden stiffening layer of the deck is the big enemy, and a good surveyor can tell you if a boat has that problem. The Cherubini designed Hunter 33 of the 70-80's and its successor, the Hunter 34 are both great boats in my opinion.

Lot's of folks cross Lake Michigan. While top speed may be around 6.5 knots, we usually use a planning number that is more reasonable - say 5.5 knots. At that speed, the crossing would take a very doable 8 to 12 hours depending on where you cross.
 
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