We have a pretty active PHRF fleet here at Watauga Lake, Tennessee, and I'm getting creamed! I'm surprised at what a low handicap the Hunter 28 carries. Would a folding prop help? I mean, this is basically a cruising boat, but I enjoy the Sunday races. How much advantage would I gain from a folding prop, and are there any downsides? Presently, she has a fixed, two-blade prop. I don't know the diameter or pitch, but I assume it's the original factory prop. Thanks, Robert Banks S/V "Susan Bee" Watauga Lake, Tennessee
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Folding Prop
I installed a folding prop on my 28.5 and I think PHRF gives 3 seconds for it. In light air with out the folding is like dragging a bucket around. You will find the prop is a must have for any kind of racing. I have noticed that I am not able to back up as good but the trade off far out weights this. As fas as the folding vs feathering I am not sure I bought mine from a guy on the HOW site and was brand new in the box for allot less then a new one. Used ones are out ther you just need to find the right one. I called Martec with the numbers of the one I bought to make sure it was the right one. This prop from Martec was about $800.00 and I think I paid $250.00 for it. Check EBay Cliff
I installed a folding prop on my 28.5 and I think PHRF gives 3 seconds for it. In light air with out the folding is like dragging a bucket around. You will find the prop is a must have for any kind of racing. I have noticed that I am not able to back up as good but the trade off far out weights this. As fas as the folding vs feathering I am not sure I bought mine from a guy on the HOW site and was brand new in the box for allot less then a new one. Used ones are out ther you just need to find the right one. I called Martec with the numbers of the one I bought to make sure it was the right one. This prop from Martec was about $800.00 and I think I paid $250.00 for it. Check EBay Cliff
feathering
If you are worried about reverse, a feathering does a much better job.. We live on a canal and have very tight turning radius and really need reverse or I might have opted for the folding for the due to lower cost... Very happy with the feathering though and it does make a huge difference in light air. Brian
If you are worried about reverse, a feathering does a much better job.. We live on a canal and have very tight turning radius and really need reverse or I might have opted for the folding for the due to lower cost... Very happy with the feathering though and it does make a huge difference in light air. Brian
Robert, don't even bother trying to race,,
competitively that is, without a folder/feathering prop. Only 3 seconds a mile? In real life, the difference is more like 20 seconds. And unlike the time given for, say a 'no flying sail' boat, the lack of a proper propeller slows you down 100% of the time, up or downwind, light air or heavy. 3 seconds? They're trying to tell you something,,,
competitively that is, without a folder/feathering prop. Only 3 seconds a mile? In real life, the difference is more like 20 seconds. And unlike the time given for, say a 'no flying sail' boat, the lack of a proper propeller slows you down 100% of the time, up or downwind, light air or heavy. 3 seconds? They're trying to tell you something,,,
Racing with fixed prop
I'm going to disagree with Fred, but only on this one point. Plenty of people race cruising-class boats with fixed props. Depending on the hull shape of the boat and the skill of the crew, a fixed prop can be a terrific liability or easily surmounted. There is little or no appreciable difference for the average Cherubini 44, for example, either way-- and the boat always reverses better with a fixed prop. Enquire at your club to see if there is a PHRF allowance for a fixed prop. I know the J-Boats classes have one (and they need it!). Let them handicap you for it and see how you do. For the average cruising-class day racer it is probably easier to sail down from a high rating than to sail down TO a low one. Besides if you do well with a fixed hunk of bronze down there, think how well you'll be when you do go to a folding prop! Of course, aside from cost there is really no reason to not have a folding prop-- I'm just making a point. My preference would be to go with a 'clamshell' folder like a Martec, and then to make sure you have the shaft marked properly so that it indicates when the pins are vertical, not when the tail of the prop is. JC cherubiniyachts.com
I'm going to disagree with Fred, but only on this one point. Plenty of people race cruising-class boats with fixed props. Depending on the hull shape of the boat and the skill of the crew, a fixed prop can be a terrific liability or easily surmounted. There is little or no appreciable difference for the average Cherubini 44, for example, either way-- and the boat always reverses better with a fixed prop. Enquire at your club to see if there is a PHRF allowance for a fixed prop. I know the J-Boats classes have one (and they need it!). Let them handicap you for it and see how you do. For the average cruising-class day racer it is probably easier to sail down from a high rating than to sail down TO a low one. Besides if you do well with a fixed hunk of bronze down there, think how well you'll be when you do go to a folding prop! Of course, aside from cost there is really no reason to not have a folding prop-- I'm just making a point. My preference would be to go with a 'clamshell' folder like a Martec, and then to make sure you have the shaft marked properly so that it indicates when the pins are vertical, not when the tail of the prop is. JC cherubiniyachts.com
Another Handicapp
I don't buy any argument that minimizes the drag problem of a fixed vs folding or feathering prop at least for racing. Specifically for a fin keel boat, (not full or 3/4 keel with skeg and/or aperature) that fixed prop creates turbulence right in front of the rudder. Then you have to crank 5 more degrees of rudder to compensate and that creates more drag and kills your ability to point.
I don't buy any argument that minimizes the drag problem of a fixed vs folding or feathering prop at least for racing. Specifically for a fin keel boat, (not full or 3/4 keel with skeg and/or aperature) that fixed prop creates turbulence right in front of the rudder. Then you have to crank 5 more degrees of rudder to compensate and that creates more drag and kills your ability to point.
I agree with Stu and Fred
In heavy air haivng a fixed prop will not be all that noticible. In med to light air it will be over, the 3 seconds you will get from PHRF is a joke. It all comes down to where you want to finish in the race. Will you be happy with mid fleet. I am not saying that the folding prop will bounce you to the front of the pack but it will be big part of the big picture in going fast. If you are going to get at some point serious about racing then the prop needs to be on the list. If your going out and don't care if you finish 5th or last then your not all that serious and the prop won't matter. But if you are serious or are going to get serious then it should be on your list with allot of other stuff. All of us that race and take it serious spend more $$ then we willing are willing to let our wife's no about. But I can tell you it is a better party to go to after the race when you know they are calling your boat for a trophy. Cliff
In heavy air haivng a fixed prop will not be all that noticible. In med to light air it will be over, the 3 seconds you will get from PHRF is a joke. It all comes down to where you want to finish in the race. Will you be happy with mid fleet. I am not saying that the folding prop will bounce you to the front of the pack but it will be big part of the big picture in going fast. If you are going to get at some point serious about racing then the prop needs to be on the list. If your going out and don't care if you finish 5th or last then your not all that serious and the prop won't matter. But if you are serious or are going to get serious then it should be on your list with allot of other stuff. All of us that race and take it serious spend more $$ then we willing are willing to let our wife's no about. But I can tell you it is a better party to go to after the race when you know they are calling your boat for a trophy. Cliff
OK,, I'll stick with my original post/opinion
and back in the '70s as J was talking about prop orientation, I came up with a system of having the prop properly oriented.
)) sorry. I used epoxy to glue two magnet 'buttons' 180 degrees apart on the shaft flange. They would trip a magnetic reed switch as used in burglar alarms of the day. A 12volt light was wired via the switch. The light could be seen in the cabin above the engine. When sailing, the trans was left in gear. The prop, being a martec folder, was oriented so that the blades were properly positioned when the light was 'lit'. I installed a hex head bolt into the crankshaft of the engine and turned the crankshaft with a socket and ratchet from outside the engine box, until the light came on. Then we were ready to compete. Make sense? If not, sorry, I'm on my 3rd cocktail.
and back in the '70s as J was talking about prop orientation, I came up with a system of having the prop properly oriented.
)) sorry. I used epoxy to glue two magnet 'buttons' 180 degrees apart on the shaft flange. They would trip a magnetic reed switch as used in burglar alarms of the day. A 12volt light was wired via the switch. The light could be seen in the cabin above the engine. When sailing, the trans was left in gear. The prop, being a martec folder, was oriented so that the blades were properly positioned when the light was 'lit'. I installed a hex head bolt into the crankshaft of the engine and turned the crankshaft with a socket and ratchet from outside the engine box, until the light came on. Then we were ready to compete. Make sense? If not, sorry, I'm on my 3rd cocktail. 
Better Tracking Angle
First off, as has been mentioned before, the PHRF allowance for a fixed-blade prop doesn't come even close to what it should be. Besides the obvious benefit of a low-drag prop, speed through the water, there is another crucial component and that is tracking angle. The tracking angle of a boat with a low-drag prop will be much higher than one with a fixed-blade prop. The higher tracking angle is a good weapon to use against boats which can't go as high because you can do thing like drive over the top of them thereby stealing their wind. If this happens even once in a race it's enough to make a difference in one or two places. There are certainly numerous other situations where a higher tracking angle is useful. The handicap difference between props isn't enough to compensate for all the advantages of a fast prop. The same argument as above can also be made for a fast clean and smooth bottom. To answer your question about how much you would gain, on our HL-35 I guestimate we pick up about, say, 0.4 knots in the 5 to 6 knot boat speed range plus several degrees in tracking angle. Question on downsides? Initial cost is the only thing I can think of. Upsides, though, is much more fun! A fast feathering/folding prop can be used on all points of sail and in light as well as heavy wind conditions. You can use the benefits when you aren't racing and it doesn't require a reef or a sail change (read "happy crew")! Plan B is to appeal your clubs handicap for using a fixed-blade prop but this is probably a looser. Bottom line, Robert, I really think the decision is a no-brainer!!! (besides, money is meant to be kept in circulation)
First off, as has been mentioned before, the PHRF allowance for a fixed-blade prop doesn't come even close to what it should be. Besides the obvious benefit of a low-drag prop, speed through the water, there is another crucial component and that is tracking angle. The tracking angle of a boat with a low-drag prop will be much higher than one with a fixed-blade prop. The higher tracking angle is a good weapon to use against boats which can't go as high because you can do thing like drive over the top of them thereby stealing their wind. If this happens even once in a race it's enough to make a difference in one or two places. There are certainly numerous other situations where a higher tracking angle is useful. The handicap difference between props isn't enough to compensate for all the advantages of a fast prop. The same argument as above can also be made for a fast clean and smooth bottom. To answer your question about how much you would gain, on our HL-35 I guestimate we pick up about, say, 0.4 knots in the 5 to 6 knot boat speed range plus several degrees in tracking angle. Question on downsides? Initial cost is the only thing I can think of. Upsides, though, is much more fun! A fast feathering/folding prop can be used on all points of sail and in light as well as heavy wind conditions. You can use the benefits when you aren't racing and it doesn't require a reef or a sail change (read "happy crew")! Plan B is to appeal your clubs handicap for using a fixed-blade prop but this is probably a looser. Bottom line, Robert, I really think the decision is a no-brainer!!! (besides, money is meant to be kept in circulation)
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