Today I was out on the lake with a semi experienced friend. I checked the weather and knew there was possibility of thunderstorms late in the afternoon. As the afternoon progressed I could hear thunder off in the distance. I checked the radar on my cell phone to see what was coming and it appeared small and did didn’t seem to be severe. We discussed our option of traveling the 30-minute ride back to the marina or staying put. I was anchored towards the approaching storm in a well know area and have ridden out a dozen or so storms on this boat. When the rain started we went down below for cover. As the winds picked up I checked our position and noticed the anchor had dragged and we were in danger of going ashore. I went outside started the engine to move us away from shore. I was trying to point us directly into the oncoming wind, rain, and waves, but ran into problems with the anchored being in a new position. We were becoming perpendicular to the winds and waves and starting to heel excessively. At this time visibility was severely reduced and the rain felt like needles as it struck my rain suit. I instructed my friend below to get the knife or scissors and to come outside. Once outside I instructed her to keep us pointing into the wind and waves while I cut the anchor away. Surprisingly the line cut very easily and the boat sprang forward quickly. I came back to relieve my friend and instructed her to go down below while I motored away from shore and into the oncoming storm. One safely away from shore I slowed the boat down considerably and continued to pitch and dive into the waves. There was lightning around, but my biggest fear was running aground. Other than choosing to head towards the marina at the first sign of danger, what else could or should I have done. In the end nothing broke and no damage was sustained. Just a wild ride.
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there are many things you could have done.
i am by no means an expert, as i have only been sailing for a year, but have been a powerboater for 30 years. prudence would suggest heading for the marina, which would have been my first choice. However, if deciding to stay where you were, the first thing i would have done was let out a heap more anchor line to ensure that wave action etc was not going to pull your anchor out. If you were too close to shore, you should have put out to deeper water, put out a heap of anchor line, and backed the boat to ensure the anchor was well set. No use just dropping your anchor over the side and letting out heaps of rope, you must back up and make sure it sets properly and that you are happy that it has dug in deep. If you had a backup anchor, which every boat should have, you should have also put that out with heaps of line also, and made sure it was well set also. Then there is the other question, what type of bollard do you have on deck to tie offf the anchors to, some production boats out there put absolute crap on for us which won't hold in a real blow. You maut be sure of your gear. you would have been in all sorts of trouble if your motor didn't start. After resetting all anchors, i would have waited for the storms arrival and started my motor and left it idling for teh period of the storm, no use trying to start it in the midst of teh storm and find it doesn't work. you don't say whether once deciding to ride out the storm if you had made all sails and gear lashed down. being on a lee shore in a strom is never a good thing, but some careful forethought can get you thru it safely.
i am by no means an expert, as i have only been sailing for a year, but have been a powerboater for 30 years. prudence would suggest heading for the marina, which would have been my first choice. However, if deciding to stay where you were, the first thing i would have done was let out a heap more anchor line to ensure that wave action etc was not going to pull your anchor out. If you were too close to shore, you should have put out to deeper water, put out a heap of anchor line, and backed the boat to ensure the anchor was well set. No use just dropping your anchor over the side and letting out heaps of rope, you must back up and make sure it sets properly and that you are happy that it has dug in deep. If you had a backup anchor, which every boat should have, you should have also put that out with heaps of line also, and made sure it was well set also. Then there is the other question, what type of bollard do you have on deck to tie offf the anchors to, some production boats out there put absolute crap on for us which won't hold in a real blow. You maut be sure of your gear. you would have been in all sorts of trouble if your motor didn't start. After resetting all anchors, i would have waited for the storms arrival and started my motor and left it idling for teh period of the storm, no use trying to start it in the midst of teh storm and find it doesn't work. you don't say whether once deciding to ride out the storm if you had made all sails and gear lashed down. being on a lee shore in a strom is never a good thing, but some careful forethought can get you thru it safely.
You lost your anchor?
Hindsight is 20/20 and I am sure you will get plenty of advice on this. We make decisions on the best way to handle a situation and once done, we live with them - hopefully, I think the question is, what would you have done different. Sounds like you lost an anchor here, but other than that things came out fine. I might have tried to put a fender on the anchor line when I cut it, for later retrieval, but that could be one of those easier said than done deals.
Hindsight is 20/20 and I am sure you will get plenty of advice on this. We make decisions on the best way to handle a situation and once done, we live with them - hopefully, I think the question is, what would you have done different. Sounds like you lost an anchor here, but other than that things came out fine. I might have tried to put a fender on the anchor line when I cut it, for later retrieval, but that could be one of those easier said than done deals.
marina
I am not a fan of thunder storms while on a boat let a lone a sailboat. I know of a guy who while fishing on his boat was struck by lightning. If I had that choice I would have high tailed it to the marina. Alan
I am not a fan of thunder storms while on a boat let a lone a sailboat. I know of a guy who while fishing on his boat was struck by lightning. If I had that choice I would have high tailed it to the marina. Alan
Another thought
What if the storm hit while Donovan was in a narrow channel or, worst yet, a fairway at his marina? If I could not be sure of having time to secure the boat in its slip, I would do what the previous posters suggested. Start engine, set anchors with plenty of rode and proper scope for the waves, monitor for dragging. I have always remained in the cockpit with my foulies on to be on top of anything that might occur.
What if the storm hit while Donovan was in a narrow channel or, worst yet, a fairway at his marina? If I could not be sure of having time to secure the boat in its slip, I would do what the previous posters suggested. Start engine, set anchors with plenty of rode and proper scope for the waves, monitor for dragging. I have always remained in the cockpit with my foulies on to be on top of anything that might occur.
second anchor
Oh boy, it's what we call "don't f.... with nature". Anyway, it 's easy to say things while in front of a screen but when you are in such a situation the most important thing is to remain calm and be able to think and take decisions. Personally I would prefer the marina ONLY if I knew I could make it there BEFORE things get tough. Given the fact that I decided to stay out there, well, my only suggestion would have been to drop a second anchor. You could connect it to the main one (directly or with a few meters of chain), since you had enough time before the storm. Besides this "mistake" it seems that you have reacted in the most proper way under these circumstances to avoid damaging your boat but most of all to save your lives.
Oh boy, it's what we call "don't f.... with nature". Anyway, it 's easy to say things while in front of a screen but when you are in such a situation the most important thing is to remain calm and be able to think and take decisions. Personally I would prefer the marina ONLY if I knew I could make it there BEFORE things get tough. Given the fact that I decided to stay out there, well, my only suggestion would have been to drop a second anchor. You could connect it to the main one (directly or with a few meters of chain), since you had enough time before the storm. Besides this "mistake" it seems that you have reacted in the most proper way under these circumstances to avoid damaging your boat but most of all to save your lives.
Thank you for your input everyone. Heading to the marina should have been my original choice, but I was concerned about making it before it came through. A few years ago I was with my young daughter and didn’t make it back before a storm hit. I didn’t want to go through that again, but like you say Hindsight is 20/20. I was originally anchored in deeper waters with and all sails were down, but when I checked my position after the storm initially hit I realized I had moved because the anchor wasn’t set well. I had 80 feet out for 20 feet of water, but it didn’t hold like it has many times before (probably should have let out more line). I do have another anchor on the boat, but didn’t think about using it. Good idea. Also, I didn’t think about using an extra fender to help so I could retrieve the anchor later. Another good idea!
Donovan...while no means an experienced...
sailor...however done a lot of stinkpotting...the general rule is depth X seven for the right ammount of rode. 20 feet of water under the boat would be 140 feet of line. That would have PROBABLY (Note I said probably) been enough to keep you from dragging anchor. Instead of the anchor digging in it was probably being not allowed to dig in therefore dragging. That was a lesson learned...and thanks for sharing in order to make us all better sailors. Jack
sailor...however done a lot of stinkpotting...the general rule is depth X seven for the right ammount of rode. 20 feet of water under the boat would be 140 feet of line. That would have PROBABLY (Note I said probably) been enough to keep you from dragging anchor. Instead of the anchor digging in it was probably being not allowed to dig in therefore dragging. That was a lesson learned...and thanks for sharing in order to make us all better sailors. Jack
slipping the anchor.....
.... you should have tied a floating marker, such as a fender, to the anchor line with a lightweight leader so you can retrieve the ground tackle later on. Since wind direction will likely change it might have been prudent to set you second anchor at 45 degrees to the first. Let out enough scope for the event, 7 to one if possible.
.... you should have tied a floating marker, such as a fender, to the anchor line with a lightweight leader so you can retrieve the ground tackle later on. Since wind direction will likely change it might have been prudent to set you second anchor at 45 degrees to the first. Let out enough scope for the event, 7 to one if possible.
Run, Throw or Punt
80' of rode in 20' of water is less than 4:1 scope, once you allow for deck height. This is seriously short-scoped. I agree w/ Jack. Let's figure deck height is 5' above the water. That's 25' from your deck to the bottom. You're going to have to pay out 175' of rode to achieve a 7:1 scope. That may have done it. If I know weather is coming in, I like to set a second anchor by motoring up abreast of my primary, about 40–50 yards off to one side, and deploying a secondary anchor. After setting, I fall off to both, with plenty of scope (see discussion above). If you really have to get out, it's fairly simple to leave a fender-float on your line as a marker, so you can come back to retrieve it later. That is, if someone else hasn't beaten you to it. Not a bad move: free and maneuverable beats dragging any day.
80' of rode in 20' of water is less than 4:1 scope, once you allow for deck height. This is seriously short-scoped. I agree w/ Jack. Let's figure deck height is 5' above the water. That's 25' from your deck to the bottom. You're going to have to pay out 175' of rode to achieve a 7:1 scope. That may have done it. If I know weather is coming in, I like to set a second anchor by motoring up abreast of my primary, about 40–50 yards off to one side, and deploying a secondary anchor. After setting, I fall off to both, with plenty of scope (see discussion above). If you really have to get out, it's fairly simple to leave a fender-float on your line as a marker, so you can come back to retrieve it later. That is, if someone else hasn't beaten you to it. Not a bad move: free and maneuverable beats dragging any day.
Anchor Down...good point...
...about adding the five feet from the water to the top of the bow...I hadn't thought about that! Thaks Jack
...about adding the five feet from the water to the top of the bow...I hadn't thought about that! Thaks Jack
Another recient experience.
Weekend before last was in similar situation. About 50 yards from lee shore from stern (and windward shore) in 25 ft of water 140 ft rhoad out. At 0400 VHF alarmed with heavy weather about 30 minutes away packing winds of 70 mph hail and lightning. I wanted to get bact to the marina but when picking up the anchor it would not free. There are a lot of stumps in this area and we often get the rhoad hung up. Well, I did a stupid thing and cleated the rhoad down and was using the engine to pull free. Usually, I feel the boat lurch as the line frees, but this time I did not. Still thinking I was hung up, I gave the engine more gas. When my wife called out that the trees looked awful close I realized my mistake and shoved it in reverse. BAD MOVE!! Prop caught the anchor line. I immeadeatly shut down and prepared for damage control least we be driven to the shore. Pulled out Wally-Mart back up anchor, tied 50 ft of line and tossed it as far as I could. Unbelievably it caught and held along with the original anchor which had about 15 ft of line from the prop to the anchor. Storm passed with about 50 mph winds and we were on the windward side of the cove. NO impact on anything. After the storm about midday, got the line free from the prop and went sailing. MORAL OF STORY: When moving with anchor rhoad out, be aware of the angle! Don't panic and have your towel. Comfort Zone.
Weekend before last was in similar situation. About 50 yards from lee shore from stern (and windward shore) in 25 ft of water 140 ft rhoad out. At 0400 VHF alarmed with heavy weather about 30 minutes away packing winds of 70 mph hail and lightning. I wanted to get bact to the marina but when picking up the anchor it would not free. There are a lot of stumps in this area and we often get the rhoad hung up. Well, I did a stupid thing and cleated the rhoad down and was using the engine to pull free. Usually, I feel the boat lurch as the line frees, but this time I did not. Still thinking I was hung up, I gave the engine more gas. When my wife called out that the trees looked awful close I realized my mistake and shoved it in reverse. BAD MOVE!! Prop caught the anchor line. I immeadeatly shut down and prepared for damage control least we be driven to the shore. Pulled out Wally-Mart back up anchor, tied 50 ft of line and tossed it as far as I could. Unbelievably it caught and held along with the original anchor which had about 15 ft of line from the prop to the anchor. Storm passed with about 50 mph winds and we were on the windward side of the cove. NO impact on anything. After the storm about midday, got the line free from the prop and went sailing. MORAL OF STORY: When moving with anchor rhoad out, be aware of the angle! Don't panic and have your towel. Comfort Zone.
Anchors and scope
I believe one of the answers may be "use a decent anchor". You do not say what size or type you were using, almost as if it hasn't entered consideration. A good anchor should simply not drag in an area which you describe as well known and in your estimation appropriate for riding out a storm. Putting out a second anchor is no solution if it is no better alone than the first; it is likely to only complicate things. The primary anchor should be good enough in the first place. "I had 80 feet out for 20 feet of water, but it didn’t hold like it has many times before (probably should have let out more line)." And how high is the roller off the water? Let's say five feet, when the boat is pitching and the bow up a bit higher (also the point of maximum strain). That's a ratio of 80:25 = not much more than 3:1! While a modern appropriately sized anchor would probably handle that, anything slightly dubious most certainly could not be expected to. 5:1 minimum, and up it to 8:1 (that's 200' chain + rope in 20' depth) for such poor conditions. Lastly, did you 'set' the anchor properly? Close to full throttle in reverse? So the answer to your original question is that your anchoring practice was poor. Reconsider the anchors you have onboard, and learn to be more familiar with the appropriate rode scopes. In terms of the lost anchor, buoying the anchor itself with a dedicated line to it's retrieval point is one approach which can assist with retrieval and marking your anchor's position. Or just tie a fender to the rode before you dump it, if time permits.
I believe one of the answers may be "use a decent anchor". You do not say what size or type you were using, almost as if it hasn't entered consideration. A good anchor should simply not drag in an area which you describe as well known and in your estimation appropriate for riding out a storm. Putting out a second anchor is no solution if it is no better alone than the first; it is likely to only complicate things. The primary anchor should be good enough in the first place. "I had 80 feet out for 20 feet of water, but it didn’t hold like it has many times before (probably should have let out more line)." And how high is the roller off the water? Let's say five feet, when the boat is pitching and the bow up a bit higher (also the point of maximum strain). That's a ratio of 80:25 = not much more than 3:1! While a modern appropriately sized anchor would probably handle that, anything slightly dubious most certainly could not be expected to. 5:1 minimum, and up it to 8:1 (that's 200' chain + rope in 20' depth) for such poor conditions. Lastly, did you 'set' the anchor properly? Close to full throttle in reverse? So the answer to your original question is that your anchoring practice was poor. Reconsider the anchors you have onboard, and learn to be more familiar with the appropriate rode scopes. In terms of the lost anchor, buoying the anchor itself with a dedicated line to it's retrieval point is one approach which can assist with retrieval and marking your anchor's position. Or just tie a fender to the rode before you dump it, if time permits.
Interesting, I remember a simular situation......
Wife and I were taking a vacation on Freebird, H33c, and we were anchored in one of our favorite spots, not usually subject to much exposure from storms and a nice place to swim. I had put out enough anchor for just an afternoon meal and swim and we planned to anchor elsewhere for over night. As summer can be, hot, humid and the unexpected thunderstorm. I could hear it off in the distance, decided to move to a better location, but when we tried to free our anchor, it would not budge. Nothing seemed to break it loose, and with the storm getting closer, I decided to pay out as much scope as we could, but we had a lee shore behind us of sand and rock, there was not much space to gain scope. The storm hit and the wind instrument read up to 60 knots before it stopped reading. It lasted for what seemed 30 minutes, although it was prob. only 10 or 15 minutes long. Our anchor held. The storm passed and we tried again to bring the anchor up, no luck. It was getting dark and I decided to wait until morning and try again. The next morning, while trying to break the anchor loose, another storm repeated. Again I let out all the scope we could without getting too close to shore. This storm hit with 45 knots, lasted at lease 20 mins. Finally, after that storm passed, I was determined it was time to move no matter what. This time I tried to bring the anchor up and it came up with very little effort. Strange. Later, I learned the area we were in was full of tree trunks and roots. I guess our anchor had snagged a strong tree trunk and it saved us. Scary to think what would have happened otherwise. I guess even if anchoring for just a few hours, you have to consider the unexpected!
Wife and I were taking a vacation on Freebird, H33c, and we were anchored in one of our favorite spots, not usually subject to much exposure from storms and a nice place to swim. I had put out enough anchor for just an afternoon meal and swim and we planned to anchor elsewhere for over night. As summer can be, hot, humid and the unexpected thunderstorm. I could hear it off in the distance, decided to move to a better location, but when we tried to free our anchor, it would not budge. Nothing seemed to break it loose, and with the storm getting closer, I decided to pay out as much scope as we could, but we had a lee shore behind us of sand and rock, there was not much space to gain scope. The storm hit and the wind instrument read up to 60 knots before it stopped reading. It lasted for what seemed 30 minutes, although it was prob. only 10 or 15 minutes long. Our anchor held. The storm passed and we tried again to bring the anchor up, no luck. It was getting dark and I decided to wait until morning and try again. The next morning, while trying to break the anchor loose, another storm repeated. Again I let out all the scope we could without getting too close to shore. This storm hit with 45 knots, lasted at lease 20 mins. Finally, after that storm passed, I was determined it was time to move no matter what. This time I tried to bring the anchor up and it came up with very little effort. Strange. Later, I learned the area we were in was full of tree trunks and roots. I guess our anchor had snagged a strong tree trunk and it saved us. Scary to think what would have happened otherwise. I guess even if anchoring for just a few hours, you have to consider the unexpected!
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