Should I buy another boat or save for cruising???

Sanman · Mar 16, 2014

I'm in the " get what you can afford and sail now " camp on this... and while I realize you have budgetary concerns, I'd recommend getting a Hunter 26, to cruse and learn on and then moving up to the "forever" boat in 5-7 years. The H26 has a Queen size berth aft, so dont think that you have to get a newer H27 in order to find satisfactory berth accommodation. ( plus with your own boat, you can take your dog) also, the beauty of the trailer sailor is, you can trailer it anywhere on a whim, and by keeping it at the house, avoid storage costs, slip fees, etc, and still have a pretty decent size boat to enjoy and cruise on while waiting for "Someday".
Also, we have an H 26 ( and sailed with our dogs) and have just moved up to a C30, so any questions about the accommodations, etc you can PM me. Whatever you decide, good luck!

centerline · Mar 16, 2014

John Nantz said:
If you've got so many years to go to reach retirement that is a major problem because *stuff* can happen. Stuff like changes in health, like the government moving the finish line, like an accident, .... all kinds of stuff.

What I'd suggest is consider getting a boat that you'd want for the intermediate term (until you can go cruising), sail it around the Columbia River and vicinity, and for the periods when you want to cruise Puget Sound just have it hauled up on a truck and trailer, do the cruising for the vacation period, then haul it back home again. It isn't that far and the cost for the size range I think you'd consider wouldn't be a deal breaker.

The plan would be to haul it up a week or a few ahead of time, get it rigged, then do the vacation sailing, and heck, maybe even leave it up here for the season (!), and haul it back home again where it is easier to do maintenance and avoid Washington taxes.

A friend of mine had a Union 36 and he'd sail it up the coast every year from Portland. With a smaller boat maybe harbor hop up/down the coast.

We aren't getting any younger and when the time comes, the thing that you'll regret the most is not doing the thing(s) you wanted to do. Think about that for a bit. It's also called a "bucket list", as in "kick the bucket".

my reply could be directed at almost anyone of us here thinking the same thought as the OP...
the first paragraph in this quote is right on... I think we all agree on that.
so why "wait to see" if something is going to happen that will prevent you from living the dream.
and the only thing the length of time to retirement has to do with anything is when you can draw social security and get medicare..

more time to retirement means more money earned and more time to get the boat ready.... if you are thinking and waiting to see if your health changes, then you are only waiting to be able to say, oh d**n, I guess I cant go now!... or you can start living towards the dream and take whatever happens as it comes.... your quality of life will be more rewarding if you start now, that it ever will if you decide to wait... just to see what happens!

a man can wait to purchase a boat til he is actually retired, and then spend 3/4 of his savings on fixing the boat up to how he wants it, living the good life and planning his leave, only to have a health changing problem or worse happen the next day... but he lived good and fun until then... lots of memories.
and the chances and probability of something happening grows the longer you wait... so why wait? start living the dream as soon as you possibly can... if nothing bad happens, then you got a big jump on your retired life....

and why buy an intermediate boat for now?...
money IS definitely an issue now, and it will be later (unless an unexpected windfall should happen)...buying an intermediate will only rob resources needed for the "right" cruising boat.... buy that "right" one now, and spend the money wisely on it..

whatever boat a person chooses on a budget will take more money and time to put it in the kind of shape necessary needed for safe comfortable cruising.... and it takes a lot of time to get it set up.
buying a boat a couple years away from retirement and spending every spare minute on it trying to get it ready taxes the savings heavily and is too much like work. ALSO, as long as a man is still working and has a few good working years left, he isnt spending his savings trying to fix it up, but he is still making money, saving AND fixing the boat at a more relaxed enjoyable pace.....

and if you get it all fixed up early, you may decide to leave early, and thats ok because you will have the right boat to do it in....

live for now... live and plan like your future (starting now) is going to be the best and most rewarding time of your life... and NOT like something is going to happen to change it all and kill your dreams...

Delezynski · Mar 17, 2014

I forgot to post in the replies I did, as our webpage says, if you keep in mind, "Our boat is our bedroom, the world is our living room". Don't try to take EVERYTHING with you :naughty:

Greg

Bigjer40 said:
Sold! I feel a new post coming on "which boat should I buy" :dance:

oldragbaggers · Mar 19, 2014

I agree with the previous posters. Don't wait, sail now. And the reasons offered were the same ones I would give, more time to fix up the boat of your dreams, get to know the boat, develop your cruising skills.

But a little personal story to illustrate what everyone else was saying. My husband's brother had but one dream in life, to retire at age 50. He started working at Grumman Aircraft at age 20 so he would have a 30 year retirement at 50 and he didn't plan to work one day beyond it. He wanted to leave New York, move to Florida and bask in the life of leisure in the sun, travel around in a travel trailer and enjoy his freedom. Who can blame him, right? So, to this end he really put the rest of his life on hold. He drove the same on VW all the years I knew him, he and his wife rarely ever ate out or took vacations. They bought one house when they married and furnished it and it was exactly the same the day he retired. Every penny he earned went into his retirement investments and he rationalized that whatever sacrificies he was making would be more than compensated for when he was enjoying that extended retirement.

And so he did retire, at 50. Moved to Florida and built the house of his dreams, with a pool, bought a 32 foot travel trailer for all those vacations he never took, and was finally set up for the good life. He barely got to enjoy it for 3 years. He passed before he was 53 years old.

I expect, if anyone could ask him whether he thought he had made a good trade, he would probably say that 30 years of sacrificing all the experiences and opportunities that life has to offer in exchange for less than 3 years of the dream, he might offer that he would have done things a little differently. He spent 30 years planning and saving for a life he never got to have.

My husband and I took that lesson to heart and have determined to enjoy whatever opportunities for adventure come our way. If something is important to us we try to make it happen NOW because tomorrow isn't promised. Plan for the future, by all means, but live your life today. It's a day you'll never get to have again.

centerline · Mar 19, 2014

oldragbaggers said:
I agree with the previous posters. Don't wait, sail now. And the reasons offered were the same ones I would give, more time to fix up the boat of your dreams, get to know the boat, develop your cruising skills.

But a little personal story to illustrate what everyone else was saying. My husband's brother had but one dream in life, to retire at age 50. He started working at Grumman Aircraft at age 20 so he would have a 30 year retirement at 50 and he didn't plan to work one day beyond it. He wanted to leave New York, move to Florida and bask in the life of leisure in the sun, travel around in a travel trailer and enjoy his freedom. Who can blame him, right? So, to this end he really put the rest of his life on hold. He drove the same on VW all the years I knew him, he and his wife rarely ever ate out or took vacations. They bought one house when they married and furnished it and it was exactly the same the day he retired. Every penny he earned went into his retirement investments and he rationalized that whatever sacrificies he was making would be more than compensated for when he was enjoying that extended retirement.

And so he did retire, at 50. Moved to Florida and built the house of his dreams, with a pool, bought a 32 foot travel trailer for all those vacations he never took, and was finally set up for the good life. He barely got to enjoy it for 3 years. He passed before he was 53 years old.

I expect, if anyone could ask him whether he thought he had made a good trade, he would probably say that 30 years of sacrificing all the experiences and opportunities that life has to offer in exchange for less than 3 years of the dream, he might offer that he would have done things a little differently. He spent 30 years planning and saving for a life he never got to have.

My husband and I took that lesson to heart and have determined to enjoy whatever opportunities for adventure come our way. If something is important to us we try to make it happen NOW because tomorrow isn't promised. Plan for the future, by all means, but live your life today. It's a day you'll never get to have again.

when the final end comes for us it dont matter any more.... but if a person should become sickly or incapacitated for several years before they meet their end, then there is a lot of reflecting and time for regrets.... live so there are no regrets to reflect back on...

centerline · Mar 19, 2014

Bigjer40 said:
Sold! I feel a new post coming on "which boat should I buy" :dance:

before you make that post, realize no one but you can determine that. there are too many dynamic variables that change with any and every difference that will be found on the many different boats that would work for you.

it has been said over and over and over for good reason, KNOW FULL WELL what a fixer upper is and what it means...
shopping hard and purchasing a better rigged and outfitted boat can be the cheapest way to go.
there are a lot of unknowns in a fixer upper....

a guy in a neighboring slip to me bought what he thought was a nice solid 27 for 11,000 to fix up and cruise with. he thought a couple grand or 3 would get him very well set to go.... he has made several passages and has had a great time, but he also has over 60,000 in it at this time, and has a need for more...
he now knows his mistake.... but he really likes his boat and has enjoyed every minute of it, and continues to do so...

as you probably already know what you have to look at, but here are some ideas that come to my mind...
figure out a budget for purchase, and then for fixing it up, where you will sail it and if it will be a livaboard or just a cruising boat that you use for a few months out of the year....

a sloop, cutter, ketch, yawl... do you like wood or fiberglass.... how much room do you need in the saloon/salon, do you like the v-berth accomodations or do you prefer an aft cabin.... will there ever be guests sailing with you....

do you anchor out, or will you be in the marinas.... the question is not what you would rather do, but financially, what will be your style.... marinas are expensive.

then there is hull shape and design.... this will determine if the boat is fast, if it points well, if it pounds or rides like a spring over the seas...

this all plays into what boats will be the ultimate best for what you want, and then you make compromises til you find what you find what works for you and fits the budget you have...

Bad Obsession · Mar 19, 2014

Centerline has some great points.

Remember, this boat is yours. With that in mind make a list of want you want, need, and can't live without. Every boat is a compromise. Figure out what compromises you want to live with.

Really spend a lot of time looking at where you want to sail. What will your home base be? What type of sailing is it? What type of cruising do you want to do?

Take a look around the docks in this area. Note what kinds of boats you observe. Pay attention to the ones that leave the slip and the ones that are dock queens. Talk to some sailors in the area and see what their experiences are.

Most important of all......Have fun! Enjoy looking and daydreaming of the boat. Enjoy the cruising but also the dreams that come along with it!

gettinthere · Mar 20, 2014

Everybody has a story about someone they know who died at an early age. Add my brother who died less than a year after early retirement.

But what you dont hear are the stories of the millions of people who run out of money and try to scrape by on soc security for 20 to 30 years. May be just fine for some but not for me, no thanks. Once you walk away from those good paying jobs for a few years it can be extremely difficult to get back in. What will happen to accrued retirement benefits? Usually once you leave and then come back you start over. Can you qualify for a partial pension now or will you throw away everything you've earned so far? And health insur costs are skyrocketing for those not 65 and eligible for medicaire. With no money you can get medicaid but that is not very good coverage. So a basic plan will run $1000/mo. If you leave USA you will find lots of other options so this might be quite variable depending on your plan.

Only you know your finances. Do you know if you will be able to afford the level of comfort you will want and expect? Do you know if you will be happy living on a small boat for 10 or 20 years? And where will you go after this grand cruise? 20 or 30 years living in a slum because you ran out of money? All that might be worth the risk for you but then again maybe no way! Only you can know that. Someone talked of the regrets if you become disabled and have to sit around for 3 or 4 years thinking about what you missed. But you could just as easily have regrets about everything you gave up.
My advice, be careful not trap yourself in a dead end life by falling for the siren song of 'cruising'.

Which ones of you who say go now will pick up the bill for a nice apartment when the OP runs out of money at age 60?

med2463 · Mar 20, 2014

Buy an inexpensive boat for current sailing. Spend vacation time chartering different boats to get idea of what you like. About 2 yrs before retiring buy the retirement boat. Worked for us 19 yrs ago.

dlandersson · Mar 20, 2014

Hear, hear. You can rent (fractional share or take sailing lessons or volunteer to crew on a boat while you think about your wants. If you are in the Chicago area I'm always looking for crew.

med2463 said:
Buy an inexpensive boat for current sailing. Spend vacation time chartering different boats to get idea of what you like. About 2 yrs before retiring buy the retirement boat. Worked for us 19 yrs ago.

oldragbaggers · Mar 20, 2014

gettinthere said:
Everybody has a story about someone they know who died at an early age. Add my brother who died less than a year after early retirement.

But what you dont hear are the stories of the millions of people who run out of money and try to scrape by on soc security for 20 to 30 years. May be just fine for some but not for me, no thanks. Once you walk away from those good paying jobs for a few years it can be extremely difficult to get back in. What will happen to accrued retirement benefits? Usually once you leave and then come back you start over. Can you qualify for a partial pension now or will you throw away everything you've earned so far? And health insur costs are skyrocketing for those not 65 and eligible for medicaire. With no money you can get medicaid but that is not very good coverage. So a basic plan will run $1000/mo. If you leave USA you will find lots of other options so this might be quite variable depending on your plan.

Only you know your finances. Do you know if you will be able to afford the level of comfort you will want and expect? Do you know if you will be happy living on a small boat for 10 or 20 years? And where will you go after this grand cruise? 20 or 30 years living in a slum because you ran out of money? All that might be worth the risk for you but then again maybe no way! Only you can know that. Someone talked of the regrets if you become disabled and have to sit around for 3 or 4 years thinking about what you missed. But you could just as easily have regrets about everything you gave up.
My advice, be careful not trap yourself in a dead end life by falling for the siren song of 'cruising'.

Which ones of you who say go now will pick up the bill for a nice apartment when the OP runs out of money at age 60?

I am not necessarily an advocate of "go now," (although if you have the resources and the wherewithal to do it, more power to you.) I am an advocate of "sail now," and those reasons you give are just as valid for that as is the possibility of not living, or having the health, to cruise later. In addition to all the health and mortality stories, there are also stories (and ours is one of them) of people who plan to retire and go cruising but don't make it for financial or other reasons. But if you love to sail, you could be cheating yourself out of many years of enjoying your own boat on the water just because you set the goal at a life of full time cruising and think you need to wait until you can achieve that goal to get started.

Lance and I thought we would have been retired and cruising years ago. For the first 30 years of our marriage that was our dream. Each time it seemed in reach (like when he retired from the Navy in 1993) something else was going on in our life that made it seem impractical at the time.... a kid in college, sick parents, grandchildren....so many things. And of course we could have chosen to cruise anyway, but as life changes, so do priorities. Yours might change too. But sailing doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. There are plenty of summer weekends, vacations, beautiful evenings, raft-ups with friends, group cruises, beer can races, friendly gatherings at the docks, family daysails....all can be enjoyed and savored, and contribute to a lifetime of wonderful memories, as we continue to work, take care of our families, secure our future, and hopefully set ourselves up to eventually enjoy that dream.

Lance and I walked, talked, and breathed the cruising dream for so many years.....too many years. How happy I am that we didn't put sailing on hold as well while we waited. We might make it someday but at this point we realize we may never cut those docklines for good, and that's okay. But we will probably always sail, and we have 30 years of wonderful sailing memories behind us, and that's just fine with us.

oldragbaggers · Mar 20, 2014

med2463 said:
Buy an inexpensive boat for current sailing. Spend vacation time chartering different boats to get idea of what you like. About 2 yrs before retiring buy the retirement boat. Worked for us 19 yrs ago.

Excellent advice!!

Scott T-Bird · Mar 20, 2014

Nice to hear your opinion!

oldragbaggers said:
but as life changes, so do priorities. Yours might change too. But sailing doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. There are plenty of summer weekends, vacations, beautiful evenings, raft-ups with friends, group cruises, beer can races, friendly gatherings at the docks, family daysails....all can be enjoyed and savored, and contribute to a lifetime of wonderful memories, as we continue to work, take care of our families, secure our future, and hopefully set ourselves up to eventually enjoy that dream./QUOTE]

Exceptionally well said. I agree with you. (not sure why that quote thing didn't work)

John Nantz · Mar 20, 2014

The body is kinda like a car ....

In some ways our body is kinda like a car ....

Bigjer40 said:
I should add that those of you that keep pounding in the notion that tomorrow is not a guarantee is ringing in my ears. On Monday, we have a funeral for one of my co-workers. I have watched many of co-workers pass and the cold hard fact is that if you do make it to retirement in my line of work, the average life expectancy after retirement is SIX years. But, my genes are strong! Still, dangerous job that takes it’s toll on your longevity, it should be a no brainer

As a car gets older stuff starts to happen to it. First off, when the sticker is removed (that's a little like the paper band around the wrist of a newborn), there is the "new car smell" ... okay, so bad analogy there.

As time goes on, though, there are oil changes, tune ups (dental visits for teeth cleaning), break jobs, tires, engine overhaul (open heart surgery with stint, or pacemaker), paint job (skin cancer), upholstery getting worn (wrinkles), headlight adjustment (new glasses), windshield chip repair or replacement (filling or false teeth), ...

When the car is new we just drive it and put gas in it and hopefully do the oil changes. As the car gets older it winds up being in the shop once in a while, then more often. With the annual checkup (oil analysis = blood panel) the mechanic (doctor) finds that some things are getting a little out of kilter (the exhaust check shows the compression not so good, carburetor needs adjustment, ignition timing is off) ....

By now the mechanic (doctor) says you need to report back every four months for an air quality exhaust emission check or the state won't renew the tabs/license plate on the vehicle (strict air quality state), or drivers license (blood/x-ray check) . It was a nice model when it was new but the dings, dents, scratches, trunk seal water leak, and other stuff is starting to take it's toll ...... anyway, by now you might be getting the idea.

So now that the old jalopy has a quarter million miles on it, it has so many problems and isn't trustworthy for a cross-country trip (assuming there is no major accident and isn't T-boned by a drunk driver), it has now become tied more and more to the garage and the parts store (doctor's office and the pharmacy).

Unfortunately, we don't get to trade it in on a newer model.

oldragbaggers · Mar 20, 2014

Enjoyed that analogy, John. You forgot the hard starts on cold mornings though.

John Nantz · Mar 21, 2014

Greg - were you in the Northwest?

Delezynski said:
We were faced with same decision YEARS ago! .....
.... What we did was get a boat that was capable of circumnavigating and yet fit on a trailer. You can see our past cruising down the west coast and Mexico for years. Now we cruise about 50% of the time.

Greg - I remember seeing a boat like yours up in the Northwest a few years ago and it had Arizona as a registration. Just can't remember exactly when or where. Inside passage? British Columbia? Port Townsend? Time-wise was after 2001.

Were you up here around then?

I was thinking that it would be an interesting way to get around to different areas.

Before we bought our present boat we bought a F-150 "heavy-half" with the intent of being able to tow a Catalina 25 or equivalent. Still have the truck and (I) still have thoughts of another boat for going to other places.

Delezynski · Mar 24, 2014

John,

Was not us. :cry: We were in the San Francisco bay prepping to head out. Departed there in 2004. Under the Golden Gate and turned left...

Trailer transporting and sailing/cruising is working out very well for us!

Spent about 5 years in Mexico (west coast) full time cruising with about 20% in a slip. The rest at anchor. We are now cruising about 50%. 6 months on board and 6 months at a shore side place. Brought the boat back from Guaymas Mexico to the Phoenix area at 55 mph.

Went back to the San Francisco Bay & delta area last year for just under 6 months. This year we towed to New Orleans. Did Mardi Gras and are getting ready to head toward Florida till hurricane season.

LIFE IS GOOD! :dance::dance:

Greg

John Nantz said:
Greg - I remember seeing a boat like yours up in the Northwest a few years ago and it had Arizona as a registration. Just can't remember exactly when or where. Inside passage? British Columbia? Port Townsend? Time-wise was after 2001.

Were you up here around then?

I was thinking that it would be an interesting way to get around to different areas.

Before we bought our present boat we bought a F-150 "heavy-half" with the intent of being able to tow a Catalina 25 or equivalent. Still have the truck and (I) still have thoughts of another boat for going to other places.