Should a keel trunk have any flex to it?

[Sunbird22358]

I am slightly familiar with the Balboa 20, but is this boat a Balboa 20, or an Ensenda 20, or a RK 20? All had same hull, but the deck and, I think..interior were different on the Ensenada 20 and one of the RK 20 versions (the RK 20 came in 2 different deck styles, in reality....one was the old Balboa and one was the old Ensenada). Your interior appear to match the pictures that I have of a RK 20 (the "Ensenada 20" version).

Anyway, my experience is with a CAL 21, this was of the same vintage as the Balboa/Ensenada 20 and was, like them, a retractable Keel boat. On the CAL 21 the keel-trunk did flex a bit side-to-side, but was restrained by the structure of the main bulkhead/galley counter/head compartment that spanned the boat and pretty much took the forces of the keel, mast, and side-stay loads. Fiberglass is flexible, that is it's nature....but like any material, too much flex causes fatigue of the structure and may lead to failure. The CB trunk on my old 12' O'DAY Widgeon also flexed a bit, side-to-side, on that small boat no side-bracing was needed, but the whole boat plus her skipper (me) weighed less than your keel probably does.

So, I would think that some kind of bracing does need to be there in your boat. A little flexing is not fatal, but I can't see how the keel trunk as shown in your pictures would possibly be restrained enough to not flex more than what should be. You need to replace that rotted plywood structure for the berths and I would think..add some kind of knees (bracing) on each side of the keel trunk. possibly linking ot the berth structures.

I've added some pics that I found of a RK 20 in only slightly better shape than yours, and to compare.... a couple of pictures/drawings of the CAL 21

 

[hawk232]

great info sunbird!!! you are correct, my rk20 is the same cap as the Ensenada. I believe you are also correct in that there should be some piece of galley furniture supporting the trunk. the other record I found of excessive flex on an Ensenada indicated that the sink/countertop as well as some braces are what held it in place. the stbd setees are not rotten and only the part near the bulkhead on port are rotten so not much of that is rotten. I plan to cut some 45* braces and fiberglass them between the hull (floor) and the trunk. one brace on either side should be plenty to halt the little bit of flex I was observing.

thank you for the useful info!!

 

[pieyed]

I love old boats. hawk232 sounds like you are on the right track. It's only going to get better. Hats off to you for bringing the old lady back.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

But keep your eye on the ball ... your stated purpose is to find out if you like sailing enough to upgrade to a better boat. What's your gut reaction at this time? For many of us, part of the enjoyment is the learning curve in taking on these projects. I suppose that means that you may want to find out if fiberglass repairs are something that you want to be good at.

If that's the case, take on these projects for the skills you gain, not necessarily for the boat. I'm not convinced that you can turn this boat into something worthwhile, but at least you can sail it until you're thru with it ... just don't spend much money on it if you have it in the back of your mind that you are going to buy a better boat. You'll never recover any money you put into it ... well maybe the $500 if you're lucky or have a knack for turning it over.

 

[rufus1138]

hawk i have a 27 hunter tall rig you would just love, needs a little tlc inside but no structural problems and everything has been professionally tuned, slap a new main on and you will have a very spirited old boat lol. pm me if you decide you want more info.

 

[hawk232]

scott, very sound advice as well! if you look at my link in the above posts you will see that the amount of fiberglass work involved here is minimal compared to my other project/past projects!

you are absolutely right to keep the eye on the ball and not lose focus with the fact that the whole point in this boat is to figure out if we like sailing. at this point, we seem to like it. I have only sailed her for about 45 min so far though so its VERY hard to say!!!

I am also more than confident that I can get my money back. it has a good trailer, two good rudders/tillers (one literally brand new ruddercraft rudder/tiller) and two good sails, I should easily get my money back in parts!!

 

[hawk232]

rufus, I would love it, I am sure... but marina costs are not really an option at this point. good luck with the sale though

 

[hawk232]

alright so at this point I have added a sacrificial foot/spacer to the bottom of the compression post and raised it up 1/2". as it turns out, it was not rotten at all, so that was good. I also added some bracing under the deck, I know that this isn't the proper fix it will have to work as the boat is not worth the labor of a deck replacement. also did some poking and prodding and the only areas of significant rot are the port stringer and bulkhead that look rotten in the picture (the rot is literally limited to that area only) and the top of the settee on the stbd side. I made templates tonight for the trunk brace, settee top and table that will replace the rotten bulkhead and portion of that stringer. I am hoping that by the end of the weekend she will be safe to sail!

now I just have to look up how to properly tune the standing rigging now that the deck is a little higher...

thanks for all the help!

 

[Luzern]

Starboard Shrouds

In the first picture you posted there seems to be a rust stain on the starboard shroud protector. Not that you need more work, but have you looked at the shrouds/ chain plates? In the picture the one seems to have an odd "kink" in it. No since fixing the other parts and then having the rigging let loose. Only bad things happen when that occurs.

 

[hawk232]

Good eyes!!! The "rust" spot is actually a burn spot where I tried to heat the PVC up and straighten it out some. The pvc on both sides is bent like that in the same spot, stbd was worse so I tried to straighten it.

As for the rigging, I have run my hands over the stays/shrouds feeling for any frays and there are none. Any other way I should be checking?

 

[Luzern]

The fact that your hands are not bloody is a good sign! If the shroud cable doesn't exhibit any kinks or places where it might have been crushed by having something clamped to it, I'd assume it is adequate (by that, I mean for your stated purpose).

I'd focus then on the swages, turnbuckles and attachment tangs/ chain plates. The thing I found most useful for inspecting these is a jewelers loop. My eyes aren't what they used to be and that type of magnifying lens is very handy to see if there are any small cracks. If any of these parts exhibit cracks, severe corrosion or a lot of wear, I'd replace it.

From a practical standpoint, you can get away with galvanized parts instead of say 316 stainless and save some money (again I'm thinking of your intent, if it was me and I planned to keep the boat long term, then stainless it would be.) I'd suggest looking online for companies that sell rigging (as in moving heavy equipment rigging) supplies.

In general trust your eyeballs and common sense. If you think something is suspect, it probably is.

 

[hawk232]

here is where I am as of right now! just showered to get all of the laquer thinner residue off from resin cleanup... in a little bit I will go step the mast and start trying to tune the standing rigging since raising the roof (literally!!)...

 

[Merlin Clark]

Looking a WHOLE lot better!

 

[hawk232]

thanks Merlin!!

stepped the mast and adjusted the stays/shrouds and I am glad I did!! they were WAY out of whack before!! im sure they are far from perfect how I have them but I am confident they are much closer than they were before!!

tomorrow depends on how well the glass cures overnight, if still tacky then who knows what I will do. if its not tacky (which it shouldn't be, but the humidity has me concerned) then I plan to sand the whole interior in preparation for paint. in "keeping my eye on the goal" I am just going to use some porch and floor polyurethane from a big box store since it is CHEAP and I have used it in my race (powerboat) interior and it held up terrific!

 

[hawk232]

alright, well all of the fiberglass work is done and I just came inside from the first coat of paint on the interior!! hopefully by this time tomorrow I will be able to post a pic of the finished product! cant wait to go sailing again! unfortunately it will not be until after Christmas (im thinking of a new years day sail)

 

[rpwillia]

Like to see the paint

Really nice to see you fix that boat up. It is looking good, and paint will only make it look better.

 

[hawk232]

and here is where its at now!! the rest will just be smaller detail stuff like refinishing the compression post and making a top for the table. im so ready to put the interior back in, it will be nice to have my garage back!!

 

[Ken Cross]

I think it may be worth your time to also check rudder integrity and check your cleats, jib cars, Bow eye (of you trailer) and winches to make sure the backing is good. That's more load points no one mentioned. For these last items, they are normally pretty easy to reinforce if needed. I think for a $500 boat, you don't really care if it looks different than the factory original, just make it strong.

Something also to consider when stiffening fiberglass. Don't create stiff corners that will simply move the load to a weaker point. That's why repairs are typically tapered from the middle. I hope this makes sense. I know what I intended to say.

 

[hawk232]

Ken you have a valid point. I have already assessed those items on my own and my bow cleat is the only item that I will have issues with. I plan to make a large backing plate for it and just be very conscious of the potential weak link there. Thanks for the advice!! In regards to the fiberglassing, I am pretty familiar with the process and believe that I understand what you mean. are you saying that when laying up the glass the endpoint should be staggered to help spread the load? If so, that's what was done. I used 6" tape (3" of tab on the trunk/brace/hull)for the first layer on the trunk braces then my top layer was tabbed in with 6" overlap. The edge of the board was also rounded over and all of the joints were rounded out with cabosil to avoid any hard angles.

 

[Apex]

nicely done hawk!