I wanted to run power to the boat to operate a small microwave. I found a regular shore power setup to be expensive. I found a portable quad safety outlet unit at Lowe's. It contains 4 outlets for outdoor protection, a built-in 15 amp circuit breaker, GFI protection and a six foot cord. The unit is UL listed. (this is all one unit) It's called the Shock Buster. The cost was $30. It can be used with up to a 100 ft cord. I plan on using a 25 Ft. 10 guage extention cord fed throuh a blank shore power inlet and then to the galley. It will power a microwave (6 or 7 Amps), A small heater (1500 watts at 12 amps) but not at the same time. Talked with a electrician. He said it was a good setup for the way I planned to use it. I'm redoing the galley so the mircowave will fit beam wise facing the front of the boat. Also am replacing the cheap plastic sink with a stainless steel sink. ($30) Thought I would pass along the information. Total cost including the microwave is $130.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
D
Don Robinson
pic's
HI LEE put some pics on how an wear you are moveing things might give some of us an Idea. Good luck Don
HI LEE put some pics on how an wear you are moveing things might give some of us an Idea. Good luck Don
D
David
SP
Lee, is the electrician you talked with a marine electrician? Does this installation meet ABYC standards?
Lee, is the electrician you talked with a marine electrician? Does this installation meet ABYC standards?
L
Lee
C
Crazy Dave Condon
Shockbuster could be a shock buster
I have read the posts but disagree with the electrician you spoke to that says it might work. Anytime you are in a water environment, you have to be careful. Part of that is to know if the wiriing on the dock is up to code so you will not be electrocuted. I have seen some codes still in the ice ages compared to newer standards. Your system does not have the capability to tell you of reverse polarity. You are asking for trouble without knowing this and thus the item you describe could hurt you. It takes one incident and in this case a death occoured and this is why when installing electriacl shore power on a boat, you have to have all the ingredients to include knowing of reverse polarity or not. My friend, you are playing with fire if you do not have all the ingredients Crazy Dave Condon
I have read the posts but disagree with the electrician you spoke to that says it might work. Anytime you are in a water environment, you have to be careful. Part of that is to know if the wiriing on the dock is up to code so you will not be electrocuted. I have seen some codes still in the ice ages compared to newer standards. Your system does not have the capability to tell you of reverse polarity. You are asking for trouble without knowing this and thus the item you describe could hurt you. It takes one incident and in this case a death occoured and this is why when installing electriacl shore power on a boat, you have to have all the ingredients to include knowing of reverse polarity or not. My friend, you are playing with fire if you do not have all the ingredients Crazy Dave Condon
K
Kevin
ABYC Standards
Lee: I recommend that you consult the ABYC electrical standards first before purchase and installation. I am curious to know which pigtail the unit has for shorepower. I've costed out the price of installing an approved shore power receptical for my boat, a power distribution panel (actually a small box) that has a circuit breaker and polarity reversal detection, a duplex GFI outlet and marine cabling, the cost was $350. This installation also considers problems associated with lightning strikes, galvanic action and electrolysis, as well as isolation from voltage leaks from boats in neighboring berths that are not correctly wired for shorepower. With the single GFI it would be possible for me to charge the battery (actually up to 2) with my Statpower charger and run a microwave. I've also costed the alternative of solar power for battery charging alone, and the price is around $350.00, but this allows extended gunkholing away from marinas. I haven't decided which to do yet.
Lee: I recommend that you consult the ABYC electrical standards first before purchase and installation. I am curious to know which pigtail the unit has for shorepower. I've costed out the price of installing an approved shore power receptical for my boat, a power distribution panel (actually a small box) that has a circuit breaker and polarity reversal detection, a duplex GFI outlet and marine cabling, the cost was $350. This installation also considers problems associated with lightning strikes, galvanic action and electrolysis, as well as isolation from voltage leaks from boats in neighboring berths that are not correctly wired for shorepower. With the single GFI it would be possible for me to charge the battery (actually up to 2) with my Statpower charger and run a microwave. I've also costed the alternative of solar power for battery charging alone, and the price is around $350.00, but this allows extended gunkholing away from marinas. I haven't decided which to do yet.
C
Crazy Dave Condon
Response
You advised the cost to include a reverse polarity detection. I for one would have it as experience teaches me. I have outsold anyone in the world on these Hunters and work on them constantly which does give me something at least to say on safety. I vividly remember a friend of mine being electrocuted at a dock due to miswiring. That is why I strongly urge a dection for reverse polarity and even your response would suggest that. Just a GFI will not cut it alone on this issue. You may want to see if Marinco offers a reverse polarity tester for your application. Crazy Dave Condon
You advised the cost to include a reverse polarity detection. I for one would have it as experience teaches me. I have outsold anyone in the world on these Hunters and work on them constantly which does give me something at least to say on safety. I vividly remember a friend of mine being electrocuted at a dock due to miswiring. That is why I strongly urge a dection for reverse polarity and even your response would suggest that. Just a GFI will not cut it alone on this issue. You may want to see if Marinco offers a reverse polarity tester for your application. Crazy Dave Condon
R
Rick Webb
Reading Too Much Into the Question?
Essentially what we are talking about is an extension cord with a GFI. I cannot imagine where a problem with reverse polarity would come in as nothing is to be hard wired and he undoubtedly has an outboard. While you are at Lowes pick up a GFI tester it is a $5.00 or so gadget that will test to se if a plug is wired correctly (power, ground, polarity) and if your GFI is tripping when it should. Quiz your electrician friend again on these questions. I have been thinking that a GFI on the extension cord that powers my battery charger would be a good idea.
Essentially what we are talking about is an extension cord with a GFI. I cannot imagine where a problem with reverse polarity would come in as nothing is to be hard wired and he undoubtedly has an outboard. While you are at Lowes pick up a GFI tester it is a $5.00 or so gadget that will test to se if a plug is wired correctly (power, ground, polarity) and if your GFI is tripping when it should. Quiz your electrician friend again on these questions. I have been thinking that a GFI on the extension cord that powers my battery charger would be a good idea.
K
Kate
R
Rick Webb
Ouch, Probably a Good Idea Kate
BTW I would bet I have more training in electronics than do you or Dave, not to discount Dave I believe him to be a deity in regards to our boats. I also understand exactly what reverse polarity is, it's potential dangers, and why now all plugs are polarized, along with electrolysis, and the difference between a single pole and double pole switch and why they may be useful in this regard do you? This sort of setup would not be a good idea in a boat with any sort of fixed AC electrical equipment but for a couple of items from time to time it would be adequate. It is not a replacement of a fixed AC system with a circuit breaker panel only an alternative for the indicated use. Thank you for you vote of confidence anyway.
BTW I would bet I have more training in electronics than do you or Dave, not to discount Dave I believe him to be a deity in regards to our boats. I also understand exactly what reverse polarity is, it's potential dangers, and why now all plugs are polarized, along with electrolysis, and the difference between a single pole and double pole switch and why they may be useful in this regard do you? This sort of setup would not be a good idea in a boat with any sort of fixed AC electrical equipment but for a couple of items from time to time it would be adequate. It is not a replacement of a fixed AC system with a circuit breaker panel only an alternative for the indicated use. Thank you for you vote of confidence anyway.
K
Kate
Yes Rick,
as to the answer of your question. No, I probably don't have your electrical training but I seem to have a better understanding of accepted marine safety standards.
as to the answer of your question. No, I probably don't have your electrical training but I seem to have a better understanding of accepted marine safety standards.
L
Lee
Thanks to all
Along with the unit I described, I did plug in a reverse polarity detector in one of the outlets. I talked with the "experts" at West Marine and Boat Us. They said if the boat isn't hard wired for AC this would be a good setup.(Total cost $37) Thanks to all of you for your good advice and concern. You guys are great! By the way, the new galley is about 1/2 done. So far so good. Used mahogany. If I overlooked something and checked out, at least it would be on the boat.
Along with the unit I described, I did plug in a reverse polarity detector in one of the outlets. I talked with the "experts" at West Marine and Boat Us. They said if the boat isn't hard wired for AC this would be a good setup.(Total cost $37) Thanks to all of you for your good advice and concern. You guys are great! By the way, the new galley is about 1/2 done. So far so good. Used mahogany. If I overlooked something and checked out, at least it would be on the boat.
C
Crazy Dave Condon
Perspective
Lee; As most folks realize, this is a forum for shared ideas. Both of us have good ideas and to see that you have gotten the reverse polarity plug in tester, that is good. There are alot of folks out there who do not know as much and they learn from the forum. I will be looking at the Shock Buster as it has a gfi which is very important but will always recommend a reverse polarity tester as you have mentioned. These can be obtained at any marine retail outlet or the Chandlrey. If you have any questions on how to install, I have alot of ideas that I willb be glad to share with you. Happy sailing and Merry Christmas
Lee; As most folks realize, this is a forum for shared ideas. Both of us have good ideas and to see that you have gotten the reverse polarity plug in tester, that is good. There are alot of folks out there who do not know as much and they learn from the forum. I will be looking at the Shock Buster as it has a gfi which is very important but will always recommend a reverse polarity tester as you have mentioned. These can be obtained at any marine retail outlet or the Chandlrey. If you have any questions on how to install, I have alot of ideas that I willb be glad to share with you. Happy sailing and Merry Christmas
M
Mark Kissel
Perspective II
I'll go with Rick on this one (sorry Kate). Lee, the setup you are planning should be fine. As far as polarity goes, the microwave and heater could care less. I would suggest, and you probably have already considered, making sure the extension cord does not chaff on anything. I would also suggest keeping the outlet on the extension cord inside the boat to keep it out of the weather. Mark Kissel Kittiwake 98H240
I'll go with Rick on this one (sorry Kate). Lee, the setup you are planning should be fine. As far as polarity goes, the microwave and heater could care less. I would suggest, and you probably have already considered, making sure the extension cord does not chaff on anything. I would also suggest keeping the outlet on the extension cord inside the boat to keep it out of the weather. Mark Kissel Kittiwake 98H240
E
Ed
Good Advice
Seeing as I am also contemplating a shore power installation I find all of the comments and advice helpful. Past experience with electrical installations I would not necessarily trust the work of anyone to be 100% guaranteed to be correct. It is better to err on the side of safety than to risk your life by thinking that when you hook up to the dock that the electrical is correct. The GFI and reverse polarity set up is the right way to go. There are a lot of ways to have even a DEAD circuit knock you on your @!@$ i.e. being tied into an active (common) neutral.
Seeing as I am also contemplating a shore power installation I find all of the comments and advice helpful. Past experience with electrical installations I would not necessarily trust the work of anyone to be 100% guaranteed to be correct. It is better to err on the side of safety than to risk your life by thinking that when you hook up to the dock that the electrical is correct. The GFI and reverse polarity set up is the right way to go. There are a lot of ways to have even a DEAD circuit knock you on your @!@$ i.e. being tied into an active (common) neutral.
R
Ron Mehringer
Shock Buster
Couldn't find the product at Lowe's web site, but a search revealed a reference to it at an acquarium site. '...Shock Buster brand "Portable Quad Safety Outlet" with GFCI and a built-in 15 AMP circuit breaker. It cost $30. It is part #30334054.' I tend to agree with Rick. There is a big difference between an extension cord brought aboard and a shorepower wired system. However, I do see one hazzard, but it probably applys to shorepower the same. If the boat were to take on water at dock, you'd have live wires in the water, since the breakers and GFCI are on the boat, not at the connection on land. The couple occasions where I've needed to bring power aboard via an extension, I had the extension plugged into a GFCI on land.
Couldn't find the product at Lowe's web site, but a search revealed a reference to it at an acquarium site. '...Shock Buster brand "Portable Quad Safety Outlet" with GFCI and a built-in 15 AMP circuit breaker. It cost $30. It is part #30334054.' I tend to agree with Rick. There is a big difference between an extension cord brought aboard and a shorepower wired system. However, I do see one hazzard, but it probably applys to shorepower the same. If the boat were to take on water at dock, you'd have live wires in the water, since the breakers and GFCI are on the boat, not at the connection on land. The couple occasions where I've needed to bring power aboard via an extension, I had the extension plugged into a GFCI on land.
K
Kevin
AC and lightning protection
Another reason to consider carefully the ABYC standards is lightning protection from either a atrike to your ouwn mast, a neighbor's mast when that boat is also on shorepower, or a lightning strike elsewhere that enters the AC shorepower circuit. By the way, single-pole breaks contact on one wire, double-pole breaks contact on two wires so both hot and neutral are shutoff---this is important if polarity from shorepower is reversed: the neutral is hot and the hot is neutral, otherwise one could be left with a hot neutral line being live. Note that ground and neutral are two different lines. Ground a neutral line that is actually hot and you get a live circuit. So if a microwave oven shorts out then the cabinet, which is grounded, could go live if the polarity is reversed. If you touch the cabinet and ground line, a new parllel circuit is created. Hard to do in a house with the ground rod in the basement. On a boat, just touch the water, or the keel bolts---so make sure the bilge area where the keel bolts are is dry and the sole boards are in place.
Another reason to consider carefully the ABYC standards is lightning protection from either a atrike to your ouwn mast, a neighbor's mast when that boat is also on shorepower, or a lightning strike elsewhere that enters the AC shorepower circuit. By the way, single-pole breaks contact on one wire, double-pole breaks contact on two wires so both hot and neutral are shutoff---this is important if polarity from shorepower is reversed: the neutral is hot and the hot is neutral, otherwise one could be left with a hot neutral line being live. Note that ground and neutral are two different lines. Ground a neutral line that is actually hot and you get a live circuit. So if a microwave oven shorts out then the cabinet, which is grounded, could go live if the polarity is reversed. If you touch the cabinet and ground line, a new parllel circuit is created. Hard to do in a house with the ground rod in the basement. On a boat, just touch the water, or the keel bolts---so make sure the bilge area where the keel bolts are is dry and the sole boards are in place.
B
Ben
Shore Power
As a surveyor who does damage claims I would deny claims that are a result of installations not conforming to ABYC standards. End of discussion.
As a surveyor who does damage claims I would deny claims that are a result of installations not conforming to ABYC standards. End of discussion.
S
Sam Kurtz
I'm Confused
There has been much discusion of "standards" yet not a single one of what they are or where to get them. I think there are alot of us who use extension cords to power an item or two. I have a breaker and a GFI on my dock no keel or any other metal in the water and nothing hard wired on the boat. I am just an old fighter pilot not an engineer of any sort but I cannot figure out why my setup is a problem. West Marine even sugests this sort of setup for a battery charger in their catalog if I am in danger of getting zapped somebody tell me how. Please educate rather than scare us.
There has been much discusion of "standards" yet not a single one of what they are or where to get them. I think there are alot of us who use extension cords to power an item or two. I have a breaker and a GFI on my dock no keel or any other metal in the water and nothing hard wired on the boat. I am just an old fighter pilot not an engineer of any sort but I cannot figure out why my setup is a problem. West Marine even sugests this sort of setup for a battery charger in their catalog if I am in danger of getting zapped somebody tell me how. Please educate rather than scare us.
L
Lee
Collar
I made another adjustment to my original plan. I have the Shock-Buster with GFI, Breaker and reverse polarity tester. I am adding a collar around the cord so that if someone trips over the cord, it will not pull out of the boat with a live pug in the water. The collar will cause the plug to be disconnected from the souce.
I made another adjustment to my original plan. I have the Shock-Buster with GFI, Breaker and reverse polarity tester. I am adding a collar around the cord so that if someone trips over the cord, it will not pull out of the boat with a live pug in the water. The collar will cause the plug to be disconnected from the souce.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.