I'm looking for some general advice on a shoal draft versus deep keel on a cruising boat used primarily for extended cruising on the Great Lakes. The specific boat in question will be a new Hunter 426 Deck Saloon. (By the way, why do they call it a 'saloon' instead of a 'salon'.???? I always thought a saloon was a tavern. Not my boat.!!) On this boat, shoal draft is 5', deep draft keel would be 6'6". Weight difference is about 150lb on a boat that will displace 24,000lb. Would there be appreciable differences in performance/handling between the two.????I plan on equipping the boat with in-boom furling and a full-battened, full-roach mainsail. And to the advice of Great Lakes sailors...am I going to encounter problems around the lakes with a 6'6" draft.???I sail out of Milwaukee and we're hopefully starting to experience an INCREASE in water levels compared to the past 4 years. We're about 10"above last year. Present boat is a Hunter 340 with shoal draft, drawing 4'6". No pun intended but how much difference is 18"-24" going to make.??? Thanks in advance for responses.
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Geoff in Ann Arbor
a response
You wouldn't get a slip in Harbor Beach with 6'-6", and I wouldn't bet on lake levels rising until there is a sustained increase happening. You'd have a tough time on parts of the Clinton River as well.
You wouldn't get a slip in Harbor Beach with 6'-6", and I wouldn't bet on lake levels rising until there is a sustained increase happening. You'd have a tough time on parts of the Clinton River as well.
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Ed Ruiz
The difference could be plenty!
The slip my 4'3" draft boat is in will NOT allow a 6' draft boat to fit during low tide. :^( Whenever I dive on my boat, I never get directly under the keel unless the depth is well over 8 feet. Can you figure out why? ~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
The slip my 4'3" draft boat is in will NOT allow a 6' draft boat to fit during low tide. :^( Whenever I dive on my boat, I never get directly under the keel unless the depth is well over 8 feet. Can you figure out why? ~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
some say Salon, some say Saloon.
Salon: 1. a large receiption hall or drawing rooom 2a. regular gathering of distinguished guests 3. a parlor. Saloon: 1. any large room or hall for receptions, etc. 2. a place where alcoholic drinks are sold; bar. Now based on these two descriptions I would have to agree that a Saloon is a very GOOD description. No distinguished guest and alcoholic drinks are commonly served. (yes/no)
Salon: 1. a large receiption hall or drawing rooom 2a. regular gathering of distinguished guests 3. a parlor. Saloon: 1. any large room or hall for receptions, etc. 2. a place where alcoholic drinks are sold; bar. Now based on these two descriptions I would have to agree that a Saloon is a very GOOD description. No distinguished guest and alcoholic drinks are commonly served. (yes/no)
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
You didn't go far enough with your definitions
"Saloon--a large room for entertaining, especially on a ship" actually predates "salon"...in fact, one of the definitions of "salon" IS "saloon." Trouble is, establishments, not all of which were reputable, adopted--and rightfully so--the term "saloon," causing the word to become offensive to the God-fearing respectable populace...which is why the "living room" on a boat is now called a "salon" instead of by its proper name, "saloon." It was the beginning of the end of maritime tradition. We now have marine "toilets" instead of "heads"...boat owners who refer to the galley as the "kitchen" and staterooms as "bedrooms"... Seeing boats become little more than floating condos or RVs is enough to make anyone who even a little respect for tradition cry.
"Saloon--a large room for entertaining, especially on a ship" actually predates "salon"...in fact, one of the definitions of "salon" IS "saloon." Trouble is, establishments, not all of which were reputable, adopted--and rightfully so--the term "saloon," causing the word to become offensive to the God-fearing respectable populace...which is why the "living room" on a boat is now called a "salon" instead of by its proper name, "saloon." It was the beginning of the end of maritime tradition. We now have marine "toilets" instead of "heads"...boat owners who refer to the galley as the "kitchen" and staterooms as "bedrooms"... Seeing boats become little more than floating condos or RVs is enough to make anyone who even a little respect for tradition cry.
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Bill
I think I'm contributing ...........
to the degradation of maritime tradition.If you remember the TV show "Maude", that pretty much describes my mom and why I refer to a boat as "it" rather than "she" or "her". My dad refered to the car once as "she"..........once!
to the degradation of maritime tradition.If you remember the TV show "Maude", that pretty much describes my mom and why I refer to a boat as "it" rather than "she" or "her". My dad refered to the car once as "she"..........once!
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Michael O'
Go shoal if cruising
If you plan to cruise the Great Lakes get the shoal draft keel. My '31 draws around 4 feet and allows us to tuck into all sorts of coves and keeps me out of harms way (usually) in the North Channel and Georgian Bay. In Lake Erie, some deeper draft boats have a hard time getting lifted out in the fall because they run aground trying to get some of the travel lifts! My dream boat would have a dependable swing keel that goes from shoal(4 1/2) to deep (7.0)at the push of a button. If you seriously want to club race, go deep for the upwind pointing ability.
If you plan to cruise the Great Lakes get the shoal draft keel. My '31 draws around 4 feet and allows us to tuck into all sorts of coves and keeps me out of harms way (usually) in the North Channel and Georgian Bay. In Lake Erie, some deeper draft boats have a hard time getting lifted out in the fall because they run aground trying to get some of the travel lifts! My dream boat would have a dependable swing keel that goes from shoal(4 1/2) to deep (7.0)at the push of a button. If you seriously want to club race, go deep for the upwind pointing ability.
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Ron
Leeway
A shoal keel will affect your up-wind performance some, mostly by the reduced keel area increasing the amount of leeway you'll experience. Other than that, I haven't seen much difference from the alternate deep-keel configuration. As the others point out, the reduced draft is awfully nice when cruising & gunkholeing around harbors & rivers. I haven't experienced a grounding (yet!!!) but folks say that the shoal draft wing keels can be a bigger problem when you do. One can imagine that "wing" plowing into sand or mud & acting like an anchor... --Ron s/v Lady Jane Catalina 320 with a shoal-draft keel
A shoal keel will affect your up-wind performance some, mostly by the reduced keel area increasing the amount of leeway you'll experience. Other than that, I haven't seen much difference from the alternate deep-keel configuration. As the others point out, the reduced draft is awfully nice when cruising & gunkholeing around harbors & rivers. I haven't experienced a grounding (yet!!!) but folks say that the shoal draft wing keels can be a bigger problem when you do. One can imagine that "wing" plowing into sand or mud & acting like an anchor... --Ron s/v Lady Jane Catalina 320 with a shoal-draft keel
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Jim Brock II
deep vs shoal
I would never claim to be an expert so all i can do is tell you what i have found out so far about my own boat. We had a huge debate with family and some friends over the deep vs shoal(family trying to talk me into shoal). The boats that i looked at were mostly deep drafts 7 ft or more. Eventually i decided to go with the boat i wanted and bought a c&c 37r. We keep the boat at harbor center marina in sheboygan so no problems with draft there depth under my keel is like 3 ft in my slip. We do take some very deep breaths when going new places but so far have had only one problem and that was in lake st clair and that lake is very shallow, didn't run it a ground but close, we felt the bottom as the keel slid over the mud. This boat has 7' 10" of draft. So as for problems we have had none, brought the boat all the way back from mt clemens michigan through lake st clair,lake huron and down lake michigan to sheboygan with no problems.The deeper draft does mean some places you can't get to but isn't that why they made dingys(lol) and you will also have to pay closer attention when in areas unknown to you, but isn't that what your supposed to do anyway(makes you love your charts and gps/chartplotter)As for performance i can not say for certain i have not been on a boat like mine with a shoal keel, cause they don't make a 37r with shoal draft, but my mother had a 90hunter 35.5 with the shoal draft and i would say pointing ability was very close to the same although mine is still wayyy faster(lol) . just my 2cents Jim Brock s/v Rampage c&c 37r
I would never claim to be an expert so all i can do is tell you what i have found out so far about my own boat. We had a huge debate with family and some friends over the deep vs shoal(family trying to talk me into shoal). The boats that i looked at were mostly deep drafts 7 ft or more. Eventually i decided to go with the boat i wanted and bought a c&c 37r. We keep the boat at harbor center marina in sheboygan so no problems with draft there depth under my keel is like 3 ft in my slip. We do take some very deep breaths when going new places but so far have had only one problem and that was in lake st clair and that lake is very shallow, didn't run it a ground but close, we felt the bottom as the keel slid over the mud. This boat has 7' 10" of draft. So as for problems we have had none, brought the boat all the way back from mt clemens michigan through lake st clair,lake huron and down lake michigan to sheboygan with no problems.The deeper draft does mean some places you can't get to but isn't that why they made dingys(lol) and you will also have to pay closer attention when in areas unknown to you, but isn't that what your supposed to do anyway(makes you love your charts and gps/chartplotter)As for performance i can not say for certain i have not been on a boat like mine with a shoal keel, cause they don't make a 37r with shoal draft, but my mother had a 90hunter 35.5 with the shoal draft and i would say pointing ability was very close to the same although mine is still wayyy faster(lol) . just my 2cents Jim Brock s/v Rampage c&c 37r
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