shake down success!

[tipsyravensailing]

It's already been said, but I'll say it again … point the boat into the wind when raising the mainsail! There is no reason to rely so much on winching the sail up with your small sail. Use the winch handle only at the end to pull the stretch out of the halyard. You will need to develop better technique to avoid losing that handle. Imagine doing this on Lake Michigan with the boat bouncing far more in waves.
I always argue that halyards should be led to the cockpit on a small boat. Think how easily your girlfriend could be tossed into the water if there is any kind of wave action. Small rounded coach roofs are not a good place to stand when you need to use 2 hands for raising a sail. I would consider leading lines aft and standing in the cockpit. You will probably spend more on lost winch handles (that you won't lose if you are in the cockpit) than it will cost to purchase the equipment to lead halyards back to the cockpit.

i'm thinking the same - i can do just about everything from the cockpit i need to except for main halyard work. Running a single line back shouldn't be too bad. I need to find a winch for the cabin top, a clean block, fair leads or blocks, and figure out how to mount a block at the foot of the mast to route back. I think the halyard on there has enough length to allow this to happen but not certain. if not i'll pull another through with an extra ten feet. Problem is the cabin top is two heights, so the mast routing back has to be mounted about a foot off the mast step to accomplish the redirection. I'll take pictures and i'm open to suggestions how to manage it.

Even with it routed back, when it comes to being time to pulling the sail down and flaking i'm not sure how that would be possible without going up on the cabin top.

I was also going to get a jack line set up - two of my preservers are offshore rated and have double rings to clip in. shouldn't be too bad to get something set up to permit cabin top walking.


pointing to the wind proved to be ... i dunno. challenging. I had power boats zooming past me on either side and so the notion of pulling a 180 to pull up the sails and then a 180 to get back on my route in such traffic shied me away from it. i left the motor on and keep the wind behind me to get it done. I also had trouble cutting across returning traffic to return to the marina and finally just had to jump through an opening. even no wake they were zipping along from the mouth to lake michigan and i just had to get bold to finally get it home.

if waves are 2 ft or less on lake mich i'll probably just go out there from now on as i got a little shy at the tiller with the room i had to work with otherwise. i felt very cramped and had to be hyper vigilant for not only crew on board but also traffic.

to be perfectly honest, i didn't enjoy the first sail until i was safely back in the dock. right of way was very haiti traffic law. He who's boldest goes first. but i refuse to stay in the dock scared.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I was thinking about when you would choose to raise sails. I would watch other sailboats for their techniques. If you are going for a sail on Lake Michigan, do most sailors raise their mainsail before or after going through the channel? Obviously, your first time out was on Lake Macatawa so you didn't have to consider this. I remember a day when we chartered an older J/30 from Belmont Harbor in Chicago. The main was raised at the mast and for some reason, I didn't raise the main until we were out in the lake. As soon as I reached for the halyard, a wave nearly pitched me overboard. It shook me up a bit and I was more acutely aware that the procedure wasn't ingrained in my head for this boat, and that I had better pay attention and think ahead a little bit.
I think that I am more concerned about balance when I'm raising the mainsail and not so concerned when I'm dropping the sail or flaking it to the boom. Think about it … raising the sail is a job for 2 hands (particularly when you are holding onto the winch handle) and you don't have that much ability to hold on to anything. That's why I feel far more secure in the cockpit. When I go forward to flake the sail (or even when I'm reefing - hooking the grommet to the ram's horn), I always have an arm that is hooked around the mast or the boom or gripping a handhold. The activities are just different enough that I always seem to have a secure grip, that I wouldn't have if I was raising the sail at the mast. I don't really have a problem with going forward as long as there is the ability to have a secure grip with at least one hand/arm. Besides, you can always choose the time to flake the sail so that it can be done in less wind or less waves.
For whatever reason, I don't feel nearly as secure standing at the mast raising the sail, probably because there is more chance of being vulnerable without a secure grip.

I don't know if people use a winch holder on the mast. I would think that you need some place to secure that thing while you cleat and secure the lines. I also don't really like the winch handles with the locking devise, but with a winch drum on the mast, that may be a necessity. Perhaps that is where you should leave it locked to the drum so you can't lose it as shown in the video.

 

[Jackdaw]

I'd spend money a new mainsail before I invested much in re-arranging deck hardware.

 

[tipsyravensailing]

I think we will certainly go out in the big lake next time. Boats.go out sails down but I see a few come.back in main up and jib furled.

There is a winch pocket on the mast. She never had a chance to.holster it.

I was informed that the sails were serviced by Doyle and never used. They appear clean and free of any tips or signs of fixing. That being said I have zero clue how to evaluate either. I am not opposed to making this sail more of a storm sail if such a thing is possible...

I'm curious why there's a concern that the sail needs replacement. Or should be considered for it. I mean... If I wasn't a greenhorn and didn't forget to put battens in and adjust the cunnigham properly... And cinch up the out haul a bit more... I think it would have performed admirably. As it is I thought it did ok lol.

A block at the mast... A fair lead or two... Cleat... And winch... I mean. The winch is expensive. Otherwise a couple hundred bucks for the harken bits to keep people off the deck while underway makes sense. I just don't know how best to do it

Edit. Sent from phone. Sorry for grammar and punctuation .

 

[Chris Patterson]

You can get a Forespar/Marelon winch from Defender for less than a boat buck..

 

[tipsyravensailing]

Right... Winch plus hardware is a boat buck. Halyard long enough alone is a tenth of a boat buck and change. Lol.

 

[Jackdaw]

I was informed that the sails were serviced by Doyle and never used. They appear clean and free of any tips or signs of fixing. That being said I have zero clue how to evaluate either. I am not opposed to making this sail more of a storm sail if such a thing is possible...

I'm curious why there's a concern that the sail needs replacement. Or should be considered for it. I mean... If I wasn't a greenhorn and didn't forget to put battens in and adjust the cunnigham properly... And cinch up the out haul a bit more... I think it would have performed admirably. As it is I thought it did ok lol.

The mainsail is old and bagged out, and is probably original to the boat. The fact that it shows no repairs does not factor. The sailcloth is soft and has no shape left. It will generate more drag than lift, and negatively impact your sailing enjoyment.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Apply down haul after you have raised the main to the top. Down haul (also known as a Cunningham) is used to add tension to the sail luff after it is fully hoisted.

Being real picky here, but the downhaul, and a Cunningham are NOT the same thing. The downhaul sets the luff tightly and if the gooseneck slides, is the only thing needed. The Cunninham was invented by Briggs Cunningham as a rule beater-- allowing a more tensioned luff when the foot was to the black band

May do basically the same thing, but differently

 

[tipsyravensailing]

Okidoke. I'll look into replacements and figure out how to make that happen.

 

[quadrille38]

I was thinking about when you would choose to raise sails. I would watch other sailboats for their techniques. If you are going for a sail on Lake Michigan, do most sailors raise their mainsail before or after going through the channel? Obviously, your first time out was on Lake Macatawa so you didn't have to consider this. I remember a day when we chartered an older J/30 from Belmont Harbor in Chicago. The main was raised at the mast and for some reason, I didn't raise the main until we were out in the lake. As soon as I reached for the halyard, a wave nearly pitched me overboard. It shook me up a bit and I was more acutely aware that the procedure wasn't ingrained in my head for this boat, and that I had better pay attention and think ahead a little bit.
I think that I am more concerned about balance when I'm raising the mainsail and not so concerned when I'm dropping the sail or flaking it to the boom. Think about it … raising the sail is a job for 2 hands (particularly when you are holding onto the winch handle) and you don't have that much ability to hold on to anything. That's why I feel far more secure in the cockpit. When I go forward to flake the sail (or even when I'm reefing - hooking the grommet to the ram's horn), I always have an arm that is hooked around the mast or the boom or gripping a handhold. The activities are just different enough that I always seem to have a secure grip, that I wouldn't have if I was raising the sail at the mast. I don't really have a problem with going forward as long as there is the ability to have a secure grip with at least one hand/arm. Besides, you can always choose the time to flake the sail so that it can be done in less wind or less waves.
For whatever reason, I don't feel nearly as secure standing at the mast raising the sail, probably because there is more chance of being vulnerable without a secure grip.

I don't know if people use a winch holder on the mast. I would think that you need some place to secure that thing while you cleat and secure the lines. I also don't really like the winch handles with the locking devise, but with a winch drum on the mast, that may be a necessity. Perhaps that is where you should leave it locked to the drum so you can't lose it as shown in the video.

I’ve been sailing Lake Michigan since 1980 and used to keep my boat in Holland at what used to be called Bay Haven Marina.

As for raising sails before or after you go out, I’d recommend as a general rule to always raise them before you go out the channel. The reason is that inside it’s likely to be much smaller waves. Trying to put up a sail on a pitching rolling boat is not easy. And depending on the wind /wave combination you might need the help of the sails to power the boat should the engine not have enough oomph. If you are concerned about or uncertain of wind strength have it reefed. If you go out and find you don’t need the reef you can shake it out.

As an example we were in Pentwater one year and getting ready to head north. The winds were running about 15knots. We chose to put up the reefed main in Pentwater lake and then went out.
We were so glad because the waves were running 2 to 3 feet and the boat was bouncing along. I had the power of the main to assist in forward motion and I wasn’t trying to fight getting it raised while slamming into those waves.

 

[tipsyravensailing]

i REALLY appreciate that first hand insight - i just see so many boats going out clear but they probably have everything set up to the cockpit or something. i'm anxious to get out into lake michigan and do a few triangle patterns w/ one leg to the wind.

i'll likely end up out there this weekend, if i have crew show up. If its just me and the gf we'll stay in macatawa i think and keep working on her sense of how the boat works. Weekend of the 11th though i know for a fact i got people and its happenin.

 

[jssailem]

Good to get out often. Keep in mind, even if it is just you alone you can always go down to the boat and just play. At the dock with no wind, you can practice raising and lowering the sails. Reefing the sail. Shaking out the reef. Observing how the lines run across the boat. Figure out different arrangements for the lines. Who knows maybe someone will walk down the dock and volunteer to go out on the lake to play.
Some of the most important times I have spent with my boat is just looking at the way it is rigged and considering how it can be improved for solo sailing.

 

[tipsyravensailing]

i'll certainly be out there this weekend to see if i can't make that reefing diagram you shared make sense, and take photos of both the boom and cabin top to figure out how to get the main halyard routed aft. I'm anxious to see if i can't reconcile what all the damn hardware on that boom is for lol. if nothing else i might motor out to the big lake to do a sunset cruise and back again - my lighting is all working pretty dang good

 

[jssailem]

There you go... Fun. I like it.

 

[quadrille38]

i REALLY appreciate that first hand insight - i just see so many boats going out clear but they probably have everything set up to the cockpit or something. i'm anxious to get out into lake michigan and do a few triangle patterns w/ one leg to the wind.

i'll likely end up out there this weekend, if i have crew show up. If its just me and the gf we'll stay in macatawa i think and keep working on her sense of how the boat works. Weekend of the 11th though i know for a fact i got people and its happenin.

A couple possible reasons why they might not have them up. One is that if you are headed into the wind they can flog and damage the sail. The other is that channel in Holland is often crowded (we used to say that sometimes it felt like you could walk across the channel by going boat to boat).
In a crowded channel with main up you have to manage your speed so that you don’t run up on another boat. Do this by letting main sheet out or lowering the traveler to leeward. It is still in my opinion safer to have it up before you go out.
Head sail can go out after you are out.