I would like to know which is a more efficient use of 12v power. I have a series 27 for house and a series 24 starting battery. Is there a performace difference in connecting these batteries in series or parrallel? Is one safer then the other? Thank you, Joe Daly s/v trinity
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DON"T
Connecting two different series batteries together will shorten the life of the weakest. Leave one for the starting function the other as the house battery.
Connecting two different series batteries together will shorten the life of the weakest. Leave one for the starting function the other as the house battery.
12 or 24 volts
if you connect two 12 volt batteries in series you will create 24 volts and havoc on your boat!! good luck
if you connect two 12 volt batteries in series you will create 24 volts and havoc on your boat!! good luck
Your boat is wired for 12 volts
if you connect the batteries in series you will get 24 volts and burn everything out. If you connect them in paralell then you are hitching a horse and a pony to the same load. Keep them separate or match them in size. But DON'T connect them in series.
if you connect the batteries in series you will get 24 volts and burn everything out. If you connect them in paralell then you are hitching a horse and a pony to the same load. Keep them separate or match them in size. But DON'T connect them in series.
So how do you charge them you ask
So now you have a pony and a horse hitched to the same wagon and you want to know how you use one feed bag to feed both. West Marine has a diagram in their catalog or on their website that shows how to use 2-on/off switches and a fancy automatic charge sensor to do it. Pretty standard stuff for boats now adays. If you have the "tried and true" 3-way battery switch (1-both-2-Off) you just need to have it straight in your mind what you are doing. At the dock w/shore power use both At sea with the motor on use both At sea with the motor off use the house bat (1 or 2) While starting the motor use the start battery (2 or 1) then switch to both after start. If you have a mixture of battery types AGM, wet cell.... you are asking for headachs and a hole in your wallet. No system works well with different battery types because they have different charging voltages. Before you say it, there is a concern that when you are switching the 3-way from position to position with the engin running you can blow the your alternator diode pack. Some 3-ways have this problem and some don't. You can test it but the procedure is kinda hard to talk you through. Basicly you want a connection between either "input" terminal and the "output" terminal ALL the time while switching between 1 to both and both to 2. Clearly OFF will not have a circut. I have been using a 3-way ever since I started sailing and have never had a battery die or an alternator go out. Fancy stuff = more $$$ + less hassle, Basic stuff = less $$$ + more hassle. And watch our for your brother-in-law.
So now you have a pony and a horse hitched to the same wagon and you want to know how you use one feed bag to feed both. West Marine has a diagram in their catalog or on their website that shows how to use 2-on/off switches and a fancy automatic charge sensor to do it. Pretty standard stuff for boats now adays. If you have the "tried and true" 3-way battery switch (1-both-2-Off) you just need to have it straight in your mind what you are doing. At the dock w/shore power use both At sea with the motor on use both At sea with the motor off use the house bat (1 or 2) While starting the motor use the start battery (2 or 1) then switch to both after start. If you have a mixture of battery types AGM, wet cell.... you are asking for headachs and a hole in your wallet. No system works well with different battery types because they have different charging voltages. Before you say it, there is a concern that when you are switching the 3-way from position to position with the engin running you can blow the your alternator diode pack. Some 3-ways have this problem and some don't. You can test it but the procedure is kinda hard to talk you through. Basicly you want a connection between either "input" terminal and the "output" terminal ALL the time while switching between 1 to both and both to 2. Clearly OFF will not have a circut. I have been using a 3-way ever since I started sailing and have never had a battery die or an alternator go out. Fancy stuff = more $$$ + less hassle, Basic stuff = less $$$ + more hassle. And watch our for your brother-in-law.
The scariest part
of this is that we sailors are generally more knowledgable than power boaters. Think about that!
of this is that we sailors are generally more knowledgable than power boaters. Think about that!
don't use both position at sea with motor on
If you have a charging circuit problem it could drain both batteries without your knowing about it and you will be stuck with no emergency power. I would use either 1 or 2 but not both. Your call. Just my 2 cents. And Don, what makes you think sailors know any more about how to wire an electrical system than power boaters? This is the kind of attitude that just increases the ill will between these two groups. We are all boaters on the water. No one better than the other.
If you have a charging circuit problem it could drain both batteries without your knowing about it and you will be stuck with no emergency power. I would use either 1 or 2 but not both. Your call. Just my 2 cents. And Don, what makes you think sailors know any more about how to wire an electrical system than power boaters? This is the kind of attitude that just increases the ill will between these two groups. We are all boaters on the water. No one better than the other.
Please be careful about giving instructions
especially specific ones. Bill wrote: "At the dock w/shore power use both At sea with the motor on use both At sea with the motor off use the house bat (1 or 2)" He also pointed out WM's wiring diagrams and the use of combiners. Brian, this may NOT work for you. I say MAY not, but could. Please note that IF (just IF) someone had rewired the boat to have the alternator output AND the charger output go to a PDP (positive distribution post), rather than the C terminal of the 1-2-B switch, and installed a combiner, then those instructions wouldn't work for charging. It is essential, as many have pointed out, to personally LEARN not only what different ways a boat can successfully be wired and operated, but most importantly, how YOUR boat currently IS wired.
especially specific ones. Bill wrote: "At the dock w/shore power use both At sea with the motor on use both At sea with the motor off use the house bat (1 or 2)" He also pointed out WM's wiring diagrams and the use of combiners. Brian, this may NOT work for you. I say MAY not, but could. Please note that IF (just IF) someone had rewired the boat to have the alternator output AND the charger output go to a PDP (positive distribution post), rather than the C terminal of the 1-2-B switch, and installed a combiner, then those instructions wouldn't work for charging. It is essential, as many have pointed out, to personally LEARN not only what different ways a boat can successfully be wired and operated, but most importantly, how YOUR boat currently IS wired.
Get a life
The response to my question refreshes what I had learned before, but there are times in our life. Jim & Don . That a refresher is necessary to stay sharp in all aspects of life.We are all not the true well rounded sailors that you two experts indicate by your way of a mature and noble response to someone's question. Life is to short to put those around you down for know other reason but your own ego. Thanks to all the sailors for the input and knowledge.
The response to my question refreshes what I had learned before, but there are times in our life. Jim & Don . That a refresher is necessary to stay sharp in all aspects of life.We are all not the true well rounded sailors that you two experts indicate by your way of a mature and noble response to someone's question. Life is to short to put those around you down for know other reason but your own ego. Thanks to all the sailors for the input and knowledge.
Hang with it
Joe, I've been accused many time of being flippant, and that's the nicest thing they've said about me. The reality of this board is that there are repetitive questions, which in MOST CASES, can be found out by readying BOOKS that have been published on the subject, like boat electrical systems. I will refrain from going in that direction, but agree with you about the responses. In many cases, it's been raining well past "splash in" time, so cut 'em a little slack. Stu PS As mentioned, the WM electrical Advisors are VERY good, free on the web and in their catalogs. This website also has many electrical sections. Also try BoatUS.com and others from Google or the like.
Joe, I've been accused many time of being flippant, and that's the nicest thing they've said about me. The reality of this board is that there are repetitive questions, which in MOST CASES, can be found out by readying BOOKS that have been published on the subject, like boat electrical systems. I will refrain from going in that direction, but agree with you about the responses. In many cases, it's been raining well past "splash in" time, so cut 'em a little slack. Stu PS As mentioned, the WM electrical Advisors are VERY good, free on the web and in their catalogs. This website also has many electrical sections. Also try BoatUS.com and others from Google or the like.
Hey Joe, If you hang out here
yer gonna meet all kinds. Just take it in stride. It helps some of them to feel better when somebody shows a bit of need for experience. They say that there are no dumb questions. But people that won't ask questions, even at the risk of displaying their ignorance are the dumb ones. I once worked with a man that I discovered couldn't read. I told him that being unable to read was a matter of ignorance not stupidity. Ignorance can be cured but stupid goes all the way to the bone. Ask your questions somebody will give you a straight answer.
yer gonna meet all kinds. Just take it in stride. It helps some of them to feel better when somebody shows a bit of need for experience. They say that there are no dumb questions. But people that won't ask questions, even at the risk of displaying their ignorance are the dumb ones. I once worked with a man that I discovered couldn't read. I told him that being unable to read was a matter of ignorance not stupidity. Ignorance can be cured but stupid goes all the way to the bone. Ask your questions somebody will give you a straight answer.
One more thing.
It's hard to tell 'attitude' from the written word. That's why 'god' added the emoticon feature. It helps.
See? Or . See?
It's hard to tell 'attitude' from the written word. That's why 'god' added the emoticon feature. It helps.
See? Or . See?Here is the best emoticon out there
Go here ---> http://new.wildrose.net/forum/images/smiles/bootyshake.gif Like they Said West marine and Boat US have very good on line info --- Here is good info on creating a reliable Battery system http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/creatingabatterysystem.htm
Go here ---> http://new.wildrose.net/forum/images/smiles/bootyshake.gif Like they Said West marine and Boat US have very good on line info --- Here is good info on creating a reliable Battery system http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/creatingabatterysystem.htm
Jim has a point, though
Hey Joe- Jim has a really good point (although the last comment wasn't necessary). If the knowledge level isn't there on a particular subject like this one, then maybe hiring a professional (or at least consulting with one) would be best. Poor electrical work could lead to major safety issues. I'm sure someone could suggest a good DC systems book to get started with to fill in some of the gaps? This doesn't have anything to do with ego- it has to do with your safety and the safety of your vessel. B
Hey Joe- Jim has a really good point (although the last comment wasn't necessary). If the knowledge level isn't there on a particular subject like this one, then maybe hiring a professional (or at least consulting with one) would be best. Poor electrical work could lead to major safety issues. I'm sure someone could suggest a good DC systems book to get started with to fill in some of the gaps? This doesn't have anything to do with ego- it has to do with your safety and the safety of your vessel. B
Running on both
Those who tell you to run with the batt. switch on both are full of something besides common sense. Never, ever, should you run the battery switch on both. The only exception being when using dock power if you only have a single bank charger. Other than that there is never a time you shoul be on both. Use the start battery to start the engine, and leave it there long enough to fully charge the start battery, then switch to both and leave it there. Unless you want to sooner or later be stranded somewhere with no battery power to start the engine, and you like replacing batteries.
Those who tell you to run with the batt. switch on both are full of something besides common sense. Never, ever, should you run the battery switch on both. The only exception being when using dock power if you only have a single bank charger. Other than that there is never a time you shoul be on both. Use the start battery to start the engine, and leave it there long enough to fully charge the start battery, then switch to both and leave it there. Unless you want to sooner or later be stranded somewhere with no battery power to start the engine, and you like replacing batteries.
Nice and easy -- you just said leave it on both
Quote: "Use the start battery to start the engine, and leave it there long enough to fully charge the start battery, then switch to both and leave it there." !?! "Then switch to both and leave it there." !?!? Unless you meant to add "while running your engine" Problem with that is every time you turn off the engine you've gotta remember change the 1-2-both switch off of "Both" Thats why I like "combiners" or an "echo charger". You never have to remember to switch the battery switch
Quote: "Use the start battery to start the engine, and leave it there long enough to fully charge the start battery, then switch to both and leave it there." !?! "Then switch to both and leave it there." !?!?
Unless you meant to add "while running your engine" Problem with that is every time you turn off the engine you've gotta remember change the 1-2-both switch off of "Both" Thats why I like "combiners" or an "echo charger". You never have to remember to switch the battery switch
One more exception;
Mine. I run only one bank. The switch is wired in reverse. Position 1 is the engine, 2 is the panel. I leave it on both. The charger is part of the inverter while at dockside. It doesn't see the battery switch. And it's really simple too. Nothing to do. Honest.
Mine. I run only one bank. The switch is wired in reverse. Position 1 is the engine, 2 is the panel. I leave it on both. The charger is part of the inverter while at dockside. It doesn't see the battery switch. And it's really simple too. Nothing to do. Honest.
"Living on 12 Volts"
Great thread, and many good responses from swabs & swabbies herebouts. A good legitamate question Joe, and educational form the standpoint of the group here; some are dubious about asking questions, and some are hypercritical, entirely uncalled for on this forum. That's right Jim, you should have better control, not like anything will explode and MOST boat owners do not know how their "Perkos" nor batteries are wired. So perhaps you're like me and never make mistakes nor ask questions lol...;-) I have learned mucho on this forum, and if it is NOT for asking questions, ANY, then what are we doing here? Joe, a good book, and listed in the libray of congress, is "Living on 12 volts" You have recieved good info here, but don't wire ANYTHING until you can take a scrap of paper and draw out your diagram and know how your current is going.As you can see here, 12 volt is not that complex; some systems have, 12, 24, and 36 volts as well as AC systems that get kinda crazy...;-) Hey Ross, finally warming up out thataway?
Great thread, and many good responses from swabs & swabbies herebouts. A good legitamate question Joe, and educational form the standpoint of the group here; some are dubious about asking questions, and some are hypercritical, entirely uncalled for on this forum. That's right Jim, you should have better control, not like anything will explode and MOST boat owners do not know how their "Perkos" nor batteries are wired. So perhaps you're like me and never make mistakes nor ask questions lol...;-) I have learned mucho on this forum, and if it is NOT for asking questions, ANY, then what are we doing here? Joe, a good book, and listed in the libray of congress, is "Living on 12 volts" You have recieved good info here, but don't wire ANYTHING until you can take a scrap of paper and draw out your diagram and know how your current is going.As you can see here, 12 volt is not that complex; some systems have, 12, 24, and 36 volts as well as AC systems that get kinda crazy...;-) Hey Ross, finally warming up out thataway?
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