Has anyone on the forum replaced the original aluminium water tanks ( forward and midships) ? This seems to require cutting fixed fiberglass panels out to gain access. Hopefully someone out there has already been through this so i can learn from their experiences!
series 1 Passage 42 water tanks
- Thread starter eianm
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I have a 1996 P42 Hull #596 but I don't know if that makes it a series 1. I also have a leaking port/midship fresh water tank and am here looking for help.
It could be my inexperience on this forum but I can find no history of this issue. I am sure we are not the first to have this question.
It could be my inexperience on this forum but I can find no history of this issue. I am sure we are not the first to have this question.
from what I hear and by looking at this . both water tanks (forwards and midships) on the H42 passage are high on the nightmare list to replace- it seems for the forward tank, one would have to cut up the fiberglass bed base for the forward berth to get at the tank and then- I think you would have to CUT the tank up to get it out- also cant see how you could get a new one in- the roof/deck hatch is too small as is the forward cabin doorway too narrow?
I was hoping SOMEONE may have actually tackled this job, but as NO-ONE has replied, I am thinking it really is as hard as I think and maybe no one has done it- although that seems unlikely- the original alu tanks do not seem to be a reliable long term option??
SOMEONE MUST HAVE HAD TO DEAL WITH THIS same problem????
I was hoping SOMEONE may have actually tackled this job, but as NO-ONE has replied, I am thinking it really is as hard as I think and maybe no one has done it- although that seems unlikely- the original alu tanks do not seem to be a reliable long term option??
SOMEONE MUST HAVE HAD TO DEAL WITH THIS same problem????
P42 water tank deterioration
Hi guys,
I have been anticipating this for a long time, as I have a 1990 model Passage 42, hull 65. I recently checked my forward water tank to find that it has been leaking for some time. The storage area under the forward bunk has a lift-out panel that provides access to the lower area, the area that is directly over the hull. That is where you access the forward tank's outflow valve. I checked it and to my horror discovered that there had been a seepage leak in the tank for so long that it totally destroyed the marine plywood panel that runs athwartships there. It was so soggy I easily put my finger through it all along it.
After emptying the tank and drying it out, I cleaned up that area and pulled out most of that athwartship bulkhead. That permitted me to inspect the support for the forward tank. I had originally planned to cut a hole in the top of the tank and utilize some Nauta flexible bladder tanks inside of the tank. But I discovered that the tank bottom is supported only by a piece of marine plywood wedged into the angle of the hull. That, and the deterioration of the athwartship panel support for the plywood-tank-bottom support, convinced me that I must just abandon the entire forward tank for water storage.
So now I am using only the aft tank for water storage. I have never seen it, since it's under the floorboard in an area that requires joinery destruction for access. I suspect, however, that it is similar to the holding tank installation in that it is located between hull cross-section supports and lays on top of the hull itself. If that is so, once it starts to leak it should cause no structural problems.
In the meantime, we rely upon the aft tank, our Powersurvivor 40E watermaker, and an additional 3 blue 20-liter jerry cans of water on deck for emergency use.
If anybody has any ideas on that forward tank I'd be grateful, but I sure can't figure it out.
Cheers,
Paul
S/V Sabina
New Zealand (and Vanuatu bound in June)
Hi guys,
I have been anticipating this for a long time, as I have a 1990 model Passage 42, hull 65. I recently checked my forward water tank to find that it has been leaking for some time. The storage area under the forward bunk has a lift-out panel that provides access to the lower area, the area that is directly over the hull. That is where you access the forward tank's outflow valve. I checked it and to my horror discovered that there had been a seepage leak in the tank for so long that it totally destroyed the marine plywood panel that runs athwartships there. It was so soggy I easily put my finger through it all along it.
After emptying the tank and drying it out, I cleaned up that area and pulled out most of that athwartship bulkhead. That permitted me to inspect the support for the forward tank. I had originally planned to cut a hole in the top of the tank and utilize some Nauta flexible bladder tanks inside of the tank. But I discovered that the tank bottom is supported only by a piece of marine plywood wedged into the angle of the hull. That, and the deterioration of the athwartship panel support for the plywood-tank-bottom support, convinced me that I must just abandon the entire forward tank for water storage.
So now I am using only the aft tank for water storage. I have never seen it, since it's under the floorboard in an area that requires joinery destruction for access. I suspect, however, that it is similar to the holding tank installation in that it is located between hull cross-section supports and lays on top of the hull itself. If that is so, once it starts to leak it should cause no structural problems.
In the meantime, we rely upon the aft tank, our Powersurvivor 40E watermaker, and an additional 3 blue 20-liter jerry cans of water on deck for emergency use.
If anybody has any ideas on that forward tank I'd be grateful, but I sure can't figure it out.
Cheers,
Paul
S/V Sabina
New Zealand (and Vanuatu bound in June)
Now I am scared- if this scares you Paul- wooah! I agree- it seems to me that we will have to in fact cut the old aluminum tank to get it out in either 2 or multiple peices due to the cabin door size and overhead hatch size, but then , cant see how one could get a new tank of similar dimnsions back into the forward cabin either!
I was originally thinking rubber bladder tank, but have been warned off these as they seem to be a rather temporary thing- life expectancy 5>8 years?
There has to be a solution- just have to keep rattling the grey matter!
I was originally thinking rubber bladder tank, but have been warned off these as they seem to be a rather temporary thing- life expectancy 5>8 years?
There has to be a solution- just have to keep rattling the grey matter!
I wonder? Did Hunter change the tanks to plastic in the later P42's or are they all aluminum?
Is there any way to get inside the tank and repair it or even reline it ? There are some great new epoxies out there .
Regards
Is there any way to get inside the tank and repair it or even reline it ? There are some great new epoxies out there .
Regards
good thought- there are also some specialist firms making large inspections panels ( Seabuilt is one that I have seen) that could allow a section in the top of the old tank to be cut and fitted with a a large access panel after possibly expoxying the internal surfaces- only issue will be where the baffle plates are- I wonder if the original maker of the alumininum tanks would have a drawing of the structure- where the baffles are-I will try to chase this one down!
I have had some experience with epoxies. It really is amazing what can be done. Anything would be better then distruction.
If done right , you would never have another tank issue . Epoxies don't absorb water and stick like a bugger to just about anything. !!
Regards
If done right , you would never have another tank issue . Epoxies don't absorb water and stick like a bugger to just about anything. !!
Regards
epoxy fix on water tank
All good ideas. I guess I have always suspected that the internal corrosion would be so pervasive that there would not be discrete areas to patch. Rather I have assumed that the entire thing would be uniformly weakened throughout.
But I speak from ignorance, not having even cut an inspection hole. My curiosity is now aroused. I'd be very interested in one of us doing that. I'll see if I can get my hands on an inspection cover kit (which is a bit difficult as I am pretty much "on the road.").
Cheers,
Paul
All good ideas. I guess I have always suspected that the internal corrosion would be so pervasive that there would not be discrete areas to patch. Rather I have assumed that the entire thing would be uniformly weakened throughout.
But I speak from ignorance, not having even cut an inspection hole. My curiosity is now aroused. I'd be very interested in one of us doing that. I'll see if I can get my hands on an inspection cover kit (which is a bit difficult as I am pretty much "on the road.").
Cheers,
Paul
Late to the conversation
I'm about to remove and replace the mid-ships fresh water tank. I noticed that several times the question was asked, "has anyone ever done this?"
No one answered that I can see.
Well, it's now 2012. Let me ask the question one more time. Has anyone ever managed to change out one of the tanks (forward or mid-ships)... and been successful? Mine is so fouled I can hardly get any water out.
Got to do something.
I'm about to remove and replace the mid-ships fresh water tank. I noticed that several times the question was asked, "has anyone ever done this?"
No one answered that I can see.
Well, it's now 2012. Let me ask the question one more time. Has anyone ever managed to change out one of the tanks (forward or mid-ships)... and been successful? Mine is so fouled I can hardly get any water out.
Got to do something.
when you say fouled- do you mean by white sediment? I have a similar problem , as does Paul Crossman- we simply blow back into the tank through the line to clear this sediment. I think this is aluminum oxide from the tanks- it does not seem to affect water taste or quality, but it does block up the lines . I am planning to attack my midships water tank in the next few months- probably July /August so please stay in touch with what you find.
Terry Cox is another long time P42 owner who emailed me the following thread- always invaluable to be able to benefit from the experience of others!
Terry said "We've had good luck with our 1991 tanks. The main cabin tank has never clogged, but the forward tank does become blocked at times. There are three places where the water flow from the forward tank will become clogged; at the tank shut off valve, the inline pump screen next to the pump located beneath the port settee and the faucet spigot screen. Here is what I do to clean the tank shut off
valve:
1. Close the tank shut off valve. That is where the debris will collect.
2. Disconnect the outlet hose from the shut off valve.
3. Unscrew the shut off valve from the tank and quickly connect the outlet hose to the tank to stop water flow while cleaning the shut off valve.
4. Clean debris from shut off valve at the galley sink. No need to take the shut off valve apart. The debris just rinses out.
5. Reconnect valve and hose.
Be sure there is a strong stream of water from the tank before reconnecting the valve. If the flow seems restricted there may be a chunk of stuff that needs to be removed from the tank spigot. A needle nose pliers or small screw drive should do the trick. The stuff crumbles easily. I usually have to do this at the beginning of each season.
Once I clean the shut off valve I let the water run through the system for a minute or two to make sure any debris in the line from the tank is collected by the in line pump screen. I then shut the water off at the tank, clean and replace the in line filter screen. I do the same with each faucet spigot screen. System should run trouble free for the season.
I've never had water flow issues with the main cabin tank. I'm guessing because this tank may use a stand pipe to extract water from the tank unlike the forward tank.
Terry Cox
Terry said "We've had good luck with our 1991 tanks. The main cabin tank has never clogged, but the forward tank does become blocked at times. There are three places where the water flow from the forward tank will become clogged; at the tank shut off valve, the inline pump screen next to the pump located beneath the port settee and the faucet spigot screen. Here is what I do to clean the tank shut off
valve:
1. Close the tank shut off valve. That is where the debris will collect.
2. Disconnect the outlet hose from the shut off valve.
3. Unscrew the shut off valve from the tank and quickly connect the outlet hose to the tank to stop water flow while cleaning the shut off valve.
4. Clean debris from shut off valve at the galley sink. No need to take the shut off valve apart. The debris just rinses out.
5. Reconnect valve and hose.
Be sure there is a strong stream of water from the tank before reconnecting the valve. If the flow seems restricted there may be a chunk of stuff that needs to be removed from the tank spigot. A needle nose pliers or small screw drive should do the trick. The stuff crumbles easily. I usually have to do this at the beginning of each season.
Once I clean the shut off valve I let the water run through the system for a minute or two to make sure any debris in the line from the tank is collected by the in line pump screen. I then shut the water off at the tank, clean and replace the in line filter screen. I do the same with each faucet spigot screen. System should run trouble free for the season.
I've never had water flow issues with the main cabin tank. I'm guessing because this tank may use a stand pipe to extract water from the tank unlike the forward tank.
Terry Cox
Access port
Removing the center fresh water tank is a BIG job! Removed the floor, table, settee and surrounding structure to get full access. Still a nightmare. The tank is wedged firmly (surrounded by foam) into a pocket just big enough to hold it; with an inch or two of play around the edges.
Decided to try plan "B" first.
I cut an access hole (6.5" diameter) to view the damage. The tank is divided by the baffles into four chambers. Chose the inboard, forward-most one because it appeared the lowest. Wow..! What a mess. Almost the entire floor of this chamber was filled with sediment, over a half inch deep at the furthest corner. And it is this corner that the pipe which draws water ends; the pipe extends right into the corner. Completely submerged in goop.
This stuff is not only made up of small crystalline particles, like the kind that seemed to make their way up and clog the filter, but large chunks.
Very curious about this stuff...? It almost looks like calcium or salts of some kind.
The good news is the tank and baffles, although pitted in places, seem intact. The stand pipe that draws the water didn't fair as well; severely pitted.
I've now flushed the tank multiple times; cleaned, scoured and flushed again. Everything works fine; the pump purrs like a kitten. My access cover plate is sealed in place ----> but I didn't need to take out the settee.
Now I've got to remember how to put everything back together.
Removing the center fresh water tank is a BIG job! Removed the floor, table, settee and surrounding structure to get full access. Still a nightmare. The tank is wedged firmly (surrounded by foam) into a pocket just big enough to hold it; with an inch or two of play around the edges.
Decided to try plan "B" first.
I cut an access hole (6.5" diameter) to view the damage. The tank is divided by the baffles into four chambers. Chose the inboard, forward-most one because it appeared the lowest. Wow..! What a mess. Almost the entire floor of this chamber was filled with sediment, over a half inch deep at the furthest corner. And it is this corner that the pipe which draws water ends; the pipe extends right into the corner. Completely submerged in goop.
This stuff is not only made up of small crystalline particles, like the kind that seemed to make their way up and clog the filter, but large chunks.
Very curious about this stuff...? It almost looks like calcium or salts of some kind.
The good news is the tank and baffles, although pitted in places, seem intact. The stand pipe that draws the water didn't fair as well; severely pitted.
I've now flushed the tank multiple times; cleaned, scoured and flushed again. Everything works fine; the pump purrs like a kitten. My access cover plate is sealed in place ----> but I didn't need to take out the settee.
Now I've got to remember how to put everything back together.
WOW! I hope you took photos of this process- if so would you mind posting them here please? Really like to know exactly where you cut your inspection hole please.Did you make your own replacment cover plate- also like to see how you apporached this please. Did you replace the stand /pick up pipe?were you able to see into the other compartments to see if there was any remainign oxide? I expect this will be aluminum oxide, but not sure how to confirm this- will google and see if i can come up with anything.
Hi JMatz,
I have hull 65 of the same model as you, with the same issues on the center water tank.
My plan is to cut an access hole in the floorboard without removing it, then cutting an inspection port in the watertank exactly where you did, and clean it as you did.
Is there any information you can provide to me (and to EianM and the others) that would help us identify EXACTLY where you cut your inspection port in that water tank (without removing the floorboards)? Even an estimate of measurements would be helpful to assist me in deciding where to cut my floorboards.
Thanks. Cheers,
Paul
I have hull 65 of the same model as you, with the same issues on the center water tank.
My plan is to cut an access hole in the floorboard without removing it, then cutting an inspection port in the watertank exactly where you did, and clean it as you did.
Is there any information you can provide to me (and to EianM and the others) that would help us identify EXACTLY where you cut your inspection port in that water tank (without removing the floorboards)? Even an estimate of measurements would be helpful to assist me in deciding where to cut my floorboards.
Thanks. Cheers,
Paul
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Att JMatz
Did you take any photos of your job that you can post please? I really want to get an idea of where you cut your inspection hole and where the baffles are located within the tank if possible
Did you take any photos of your job that you can post please? I really want to get an idea of where you cut your inspection hole and where the baffles are located within the tank if possible
Re: Att JMatz
JMatz,
I realize that your boat might be in no condition to offer measurements about the tank. However, even if it is still apart, or inaccessible to you right now, a couple pieces of information would be REALLY helpful to me before I cut an access hole in my floorboards.
On that center water tank,
1) are the baffles oriented fore/aft, or oriented amidships?
2) is the water pickup tube located in the corner of the tank furthest forward, or furthest aft? (I assume it is located on the side closest to the keel, and not the side closer to the side of the hull).
3) if you can provide any measurements, how far from the aft edge of the step (down into the nav station area) is that tube?
4) and how far towards the port side of the hull is it from the base of the companionway step (the reefer compressor cabinet)?
Any and all answers would be helpful before I take a saw and cut an access through the floorboard. My plan is to then try and make it look somewhat decent, like the other floorboard access points.
Cheers,
Paul
JMatz,
I realize that your boat might be in no condition to offer measurements about the tank. However, even if it is still apart, or inaccessible to you right now, a couple pieces of information would be REALLY helpful to me before I cut an access hole in my floorboards.
On that center water tank,
1) are the baffles oriented fore/aft, or oriented amidships?
2) is the water pickup tube located in the corner of the tank furthest forward, or furthest aft? (I assume it is located on the side closest to the keel, and not the side closer to the side of the hull).
3) if you can provide any measurements, how far from the aft edge of the step (down into the nav station area) is that tube?
4) and how far towards the port side of the hull is it from the base of the companionway step (the reefer compressor cabinet)?
Any and all answers would be helpful before I take a saw and cut an access through the floorboard. My plan is to then try and make it look somewhat decent, like the other floorboard access points.
Cheers,
Paul
Center access port
I'm going to attempt sending a couple of pictures. I may not be computer savvy enough though -- we'll see.
I did cut the hole in the lowermost, inboard quadrant. The tank itself is divided into four sections like the figure of a cross. The placement of the hole allows complete access to the end of the stand-pipe, unfortunately- you'd have to cut four holes to have complete access to all chambers. This chamber does provide access to the business end of the pipe which is what's important and flushing water down the main intake port pushes the sediment into this lowermost chamber.
The baffles allow some access near the floor and I was able to sweep under each once the tank was dry and vacuum as best I could.
From the rather "fuzzy" pic of the inside of the tank prior to cleaning, you might think "lost cause".. but it did clean up rather nicely. A little scotch-bright and a brush and flushing several times did wonders. And no I didn't change the pipe; it was definitely pitted but quite functional.
The fact is, I just wasn't prepared to cut another hole.
I bought a Beckson standard 6" access port and used some household silicone sealant - the kind for fishtanks "aquarium safe" and non-toxic. Filled the tank completely full to overflowing and no leaks.
As far as the floor; it's a pain lifting it out but actually not too bad. The floor panel just forward must be lifted up slightly to allow the one covering the tank to slide under and out.
I'm going to attempt sending a couple of pictures. I may not be computer savvy enough though -- we'll see.
I did cut the hole in the lowermost, inboard quadrant. The tank itself is divided into four sections like the figure of a cross. The placement of the hole allows complete access to the end of the stand-pipe, unfortunately- you'd have to cut four holes to have complete access to all chambers. This chamber does provide access to the business end of the pipe which is what's important and flushing water down the main intake port pushes the sediment into this lowermost chamber.
The baffles allow some access near the floor and I was able to sweep under each once the tank was dry and vacuum as best I could.
From the rather "fuzzy" pic of the inside of the tank prior to cleaning, you might think "lost cause".. but it did clean up rather nicely. A little scotch-bright and a brush and flushing several times did wonders. And no I didn't change the pipe; it was definitely pitted but quite functional.
The fact is, I just wasn't prepared to cut another hole.
I bought a Beckson standard 6" access port and used some household silicone sealant - the kind for fishtanks "aquarium safe" and non-toxic. Filled the tank completely full to overflowing and no leaks.
As far as the floor; it's a pain lifting it out but actually not too bad. The floor panel just forward must be lifted up slightly to allow the one covering the tank to slide under and out.
I to have a leak in my tank..........I will be cutting a inspection hole and finding the hole......there seen to be no baffles in my tank.
I will using JB weld or.................anything to save this tank......I do not want to destroy it
I will using JB weld or.................anything to save this tank......I do not want to destroy it
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JMatz,
It's not possible for me to thank you enough for your reply here. Your photos and information have saved me from MASSIVE extra unnecessary work. Now I know that I can do this without cutting an extra unnecessary hole in my floorboard, and know exactly where to cut the inspection hole in the tank.
Thanks, thanks, thanks.
It's not possible for me to thank you enough for your reply here. Your photos and information have saved me from MASSIVE extra unnecessary work. Now I know that I can do this without cutting an extra unnecessary hole in my floorboard, and know exactly where to cut the inspection hole in the tank.
Thanks, thanks, thanks.
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