My wife and I sail a C-22, and would like to replace the jib winches on the boat. They are alittle undersized now and we are in our late fifties, so we need alittle more help now than we did years ago. I would like to get a set of Lumar 14 st winches. My question is how easy is it to get the sheet off of the tailer under load? Is it also nessary to cleat the sheet, or is it ok to leave it on the self tailer? My concern is if I have to let the sheet run in a hurry, I may not be able to do so. As you can tell my wife and I have never used a self tailing winch before, but they do seem real nice. Any and all imput will be great. Any other recomendations would also be wellcome. Thanks Dale
Self tailing winch question
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When Tacking
it is easier to release the line on the former working (non-self tailing) winch just by pulling straight up. The coils (normally 3) pull right off the top of the winch. Two weeks ago while sailing on a friend's boat I found it more of a hassle to release the sheets from his self tailing winches. The motion was one of unwinding the sheet rather than pulling straight up. I can't imagine that the forces on a C22 would be so great that they couldn't be handled with a regular winch. BTW I'm in my early 60's.
it is easier to release the line on the former working (non-self tailing) winch just by pulling straight up. The coils (normally 3) pull right off the top of the winch. Two weeks ago while sailing on a friend's boat I found it more of a hassle to release the sheets from his self tailing winches. The motion was one of unwinding the sheet rather than pulling straight up. I can't imagine that the forces on a C22 would be so great that they couldn't be handled with a regular winch. BTW I'm in my early 60's.
ST winch
I think it's a heck of a lot easier to use a winch handle with a ST winch. You'll want to adjust the foot so that it's in the right position for you. I like mine at about 4 O'clock on both sides. Make sure your sheet size is correct for the jaws or you'll get a nasty surprise.
I think it's a heck of a lot easier to use a winch handle with a ST winch. You'll want to adjust the foot so that it's in the right position for you. I like mine at about 4 O'clock on both sides. Make sure your sheet size is correct for the jaws or you'll get a nasty surprise.
Lewmay is adjustable for line size.
You can unscrew the self tailing part of a size 16 Lewmar and swap teh washers/spacers around to accomodate different line sizes. Incidentally, I woul drecommend 16's for sheet winches ("primaries") for the C22, and that size is very common, and available used at good prices. jv
You can unscrew the self tailing part of a size 16 Lewmar and swap teh washers/spacers around to accomodate different line sizes. Incidentally, I woul drecommend 16's for sheet winches ("primaries") for the C22, and that size is very common, and available used at good prices. jv
eBay
Check Item number: 280020318261, an "almost new" pair of chrome 16 ST's starting at $500, buy it now for $650. This is probably a one speed winch. These cost about twice that price new. (I have no connection at all to this auction, just trying to help out).
Check Item number: 280020318261, an "almost new" pair of chrome 16 ST's starting at $500, buy it now for $650. This is probably a one speed winch. These cost about twice that price new. (I have no connection at all to this auction, just trying to help out).
Try the unthinkable, you may like it
I was kind of shocked to hear John Rousmaniere at one of his seminars talking about handling the jib without a winch. Then this Summer while sailing with a friend who owns a Hunter 326 I found that he routinely handled the jib without the winches, and found that I could do it safely, too, though once the wind got past 14 knots it seemed like a better idea to use it. So, while you'll want to have winches aboard on general principles, on a smallish boat like a 22 you may find you don't actually need them that often if you know how to time your tack or jibe. (New thinking says one self-tailer on board is a must for retrieving a man overboard with only one person in the cockpit).
I was kind of shocked to hear John Rousmaniere at one of his seminars talking about handling the jib without a winch. Then this Summer while sailing with a friend who owns a Hunter 326 I found that he routinely handled the jib without the winches, and found that I could do it safely, too, though once the wind got past 14 knots it seemed like a better idea to use it. So, while you'll want to have winches aboard on general principles, on a smallish boat like a 22 you may find you don't actually need them that often if you know how to time your tack or jibe. (New thinking says one self-tailer on board is a must for retrieving a man overboard with only one person in the cockpit).
Try Winchers
archive search will find you lots. I used them for 11 years on our C25 and on our C22 before that. For $40 or so ya got nothing to lose trying them.
archive search will find you lots. I used them for 11 years on our C25 and on our C22 before that. For $40 or so ya got nothing to lose trying them.
14 st and 16st
Jviss The 14st and the 16st have the same 2:1 gear, and power ratio. I think the differance is in the internal parts. You can buy the 14 for around $320 ea. and the 16 for around $380 ea. new. I felt that the differance was not worth moving up to the 16. Steve, what do you mean adjust the foot position? Tom, my wife sheets in the genny, and at 110 lbs. and a sholder that is not the best, we felt that a self tailing winch could do nothing but help. Dale
Jviss The 14st and the 16st have the same 2:1 gear, and power ratio. I think the differance is in the internal parts. You can buy the 14 for around $320 ea. and the 16 for around $380 ea. new. I felt that the differance was not worth moving up to the 16. Steve, what do you mean adjust the foot position? Tom, my wife sheets in the genny, and at 110 lbs. and a sholder that is not the best, we felt that a self tailing winch could do nothing but help. Dale
Before you spend alot of dough
After seeing how neat they worked I wanted self tailers but cost seemed prohibititive. I wouldn't have believed it but suprisingly enough, those blue rubber things that go on the top of winches work really, really, well. Those were a great invention and I hope the guy got rich.
After seeing how neat they worked I wanted self tailers but cost seemed prohibititive. I wouldn't have believed it but suprisingly enough, those blue rubber things that go on the top of winches work really, really, well. Those were a great invention and I hope the guy got rich.
Paphman
1) Self-tailing winches do not require the use of cleats; the self-tailer pulley is essentially a circular jam cleat: it locks the sheet into its toothed groove so it can't slip. When the winch is cranked, the pulley turns with it, picking up line from the winch drum and expelling the tail automatically. Result: since there's no cleat knot to untie, you'll be able to let the sheet run much faster than you can now. 2) It's very easy to release a self-tailing winch under load, and this is where these winches' cleverness is most apparent. As the wind builds, just make sure you have increased your lazy two turns around the drum for light air to at least three turns around the winch to give you the extra friction around the winch drum. Then it's those turns take the load: the tailer is under the least load. You'll always be able to release it by simply "unwinding" the sheet from the self-tailer with a large circular motion until it comes off the tailer (about 3/4 circle), and viola! your hand is now belaying the winch turns. Just make sure you keep your hand a foot away from the winch and make a big circle motion to release it, and you're completely under control and the winch won't eat your fingers. But that's true when handling any winch under load. An extra benefit of self-tailers is that you have a free hand to use to steady yourself, hold the winch handle, or whatever. I sailed my own C22 without tailers, and to have had them would have been a dream when the breeze picked up. If you can find a pair that will mount on your coaming, I wouldn't hesitate. They will be worth every dollar. WRT those blue rubber rings that simulate the action of a self-tailing winch. They're inexpensive and some folks like them (see previous post), but I could not find any small enough to fit my little C22 winches, so I cannot comment on their actual performance. Measure across the top of the drum (the flared upper lip, not the drum's actual diameter) before you go to the store. You will not have lost much if you decide to mount actual Lewmar self-tailers after all. Fair Winds, Jeff
1) Self-tailing winches do not require the use of cleats; the self-tailer pulley is essentially a circular jam cleat: it locks the sheet into its toothed groove so it can't slip. When the winch is cranked, the pulley turns with it, picking up line from the winch drum and expelling the tail automatically. Result: since there's no cleat knot to untie, you'll be able to let the sheet run much faster than you can now. 2) It's very easy to release a self-tailing winch under load, and this is where these winches' cleverness is most apparent. As the wind builds, just make sure you have increased your lazy two turns around the drum for light air to at least three turns around the winch to give you the extra friction around the winch drum. Then it's those turns take the load: the tailer is under the least load. You'll always be able to release it by simply "unwinding" the sheet from the self-tailer with a large circular motion until it comes off the tailer (about 3/4 circle), and viola! your hand is now belaying the winch turns. Just make sure you keep your hand a foot away from the winch and make a big circle motion to release it, and you're completely under control and the winch won't eat your fingers. But that's true when handling any winch under load. An extra benefit of self-tailers is that you have a free hand to use to steady yourself, hold the winch handle, or whatever. I sailed my own C22 without tailers, and to have had them would have been a dream when the breeze picked up. If you can find a pair that will mount on your coaming, I wouldn't hesitate. They will be worth every dollar. WRT those blue rubber rings that simulate the action of a self-tailing winch. They're inexpensive and some folks like them (see previous post), but I could not find any small enough to fit my little C22 winches, so I cannot comment on their actual performance. Measure across the top of the drum (the flared upper lip, not the drum's actual diameter) before you go to the store. You will not have lost much if you decide to mount actual Lewmar self-tailers after all. Fair Winds, Jeff
Thanks Jeff
Jeff Thanks for the great info. I am sure that a 14st or 16st would fit on the coaming fine. Catalina Direct sellsthe 16st for the c22, but I think I will go with the 14st instead. I really can not see the differance between the two for our needs. Thanks again Jeff Dale
Jeff Thanks for the great info. I am sure that a 14st or 16st would fit on the coaming fine. Catalina Direct sellsthe 16st for the c22, but I think I will go with the 14st instead. I really can not see the differance between the two for our needs. Thanks again Jeff Dale
another vote for winchers
I put them on my Glouchester 22 and although they don't make winches self tailing,they worked great. I now have a larger boat with st winches all around and they obviously work better than winchers but for the money on a 22' boat spring for the $30 and try the winchers first unless you are sure that you want larger winches.
I put them on my Glouchester 22 and although they don't make winches self tailing,they worked great. I now have a larger boat with st winches all around and they obviously work better than winchers but for the money on a 22' boat spring for the $30 and try the winchers first unless you are sure that you want larger winches.
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