Selden Furling Jamming A Bit

[Bedouin]

Good Day!

I have searched for an answer a good bit, but am now posting here with high hopes.

On our 2002 Hunter 306 we have stock in-mast furling (Selden). We have owned this boat for 2.5 years. Recently, the mainsail has been jamming when trying to unfurl. It comes out about 75% of the way and then gets stuck.

When looking up, I can see that there is some creasing/overlapping in the leech near the top of the sail, preventing the sail to unfurl completely.

Now, my guess is that this is happening because I'm not tightening the leech enough when furling it in. I figure that when the leech is loose and flappy then it'll bunch up during furling. The following passage from the instructions seem to validate this:

Furling:

1. The leech should be kept fairly tight when reefing or furling. Adjust the topping lift to achieve this, and the sail will form a good tight roll around the luff extrusion.

2. Whilst keeping slight tension on the outhaul line, pull in the sail using the winch for the endless reefing loop.

(On the other hand, I have seen other Internet posts suggesting to tighten the topping lift and easing the kicker, which seems to contradict the instructions.)

But the instructions only say to adjust the topping lift, mentioning nothing about a rigid vang, which I have...well, the boat has. ;-) In fact, I never use the topping lift, using it instead to haul up a sky chair. Meaning the rigid vang holds up the boom with no assistance from the topping lift.

So, am I correct in thinking that I may need to tighten, i.e. shorten, the vang to bring the end of the boom lower in order to tighten the leech and successfully furl (and hence later unfurl) the sail?

Also, any suggestions on getting the creases out of the sail?

Thanks very much in advance!

 

[dehler25]

I have a selden although I am hardly an expert on it, logic would indicate that it should be flat as it rolls. leech not overly tight or loose and significant tension on the outhaul. I have also been shown that a sail that is blown will furl and therefore unfurl badly. On that it would be streched slightly and give trouble. My main appears and feels quite good, but I am replacing it for that very reason

 

[Bedouin]

I have a selden although I am hardly an expert on it, logic would indicate that it should be flat as it rolls. leech not overly tight or loose and significant tension on the outhaul. I have also been shown that a sail that is blown will furl and therefore unfurl badly. On that it would be streched slightly and give trouble. My main appears and feels quite good, but I am replacing it for that very reason

Thanks for the quick reply! I hope I don't have to replace my main quite yet...on the other hand it's the original from 2002, so I guess it may just be time. I'll be playing around with the leech tension first, though.

 

[dehler25]

Mine was the original 2002 as well and i thought it a very good sail. Apparently they are built to be replaced sooner than others and therefore cost somewhat less. I ordered a laminate as it is thinner even with vertical battens and should roll well. Ideally I would have preferred in-boom, but the boat had in-mast.

 

[Scott B]

Make sure your boom is down, not raised.
I palm the outhaul in my right hand and keep tension while pulling on the furling line to furl in.

 

[Bedouin]

Roger, thanks for confirming, Scott!

Another thought occurred to me, and I'll have to look at this when I get to the boat this weekend - I sailed in a Corinthian Cup last season (Racing for cruisers). My racing skipper tried to coax out every last fraction of a knot by fiddling with the sail shape. One thing she did was tighten the leech line. It might still be tight. Now I wonder if I need to let that out. I would imagine that overtightening the leech line would crumple up the leech right there...

 

[meb135]

Your leech should not be loose when furling, it should be taught, but not overly tight. And if you're getting an overlap when furling, there's a good chance your sail has lost its shape also.

Marc

 

[meb135]

Roger, thanks for confirming, Scott!

Another thought occurred to me, and I'll have to look at this when I get to the boat this weekend - I sailed in a Corinthian Cup last season (Racing for cruisers). My racing skipper tried to coax out every last fraction of a knot by fiddling with the sail shape. One thing she did was tighten the leech line. It might still be tight. Now I wonder if I need to let that out. I would imagine that overtightening the leech line would crumple up the leech right there...

A tight leech line will not cause problems. I do it all the time.

Marc

 

[Bedouin]

Ah, scratch that then. Thanks, Marc.

 

[Scott B]

A tight leech line will not cause problems. I do it all the time.

Marc

Unless it's overtightened and curling the leach?

 

[Bedouin]

Unless it's overtightened and curling the leach?

That's what I'm afraid of, but... Well, I'll give it a shot this weekend.

Thanks for all your thoughts!

 

[Sailm8]

I had problems with a flapping leach so I tightened the leach line so it stopped. Forgot to loosen and it folded over the sail at the upper edge of the leach. I also always wind it in counterclockwise. I don't know if that is important but no more jams.

 

[meb135]

I really don't think the leech line being tight is the cause. It's more likely a combination of a worn out sail with stretched dacron and your boomkicker not being tight enough.

Marc

 

[JamesG161]

Although mine is Z-Spars the fundamentals are the same.

Tips....

1) Fresh water flush your furling drum bearings. flush and flush and flush
2) Furling is always the problem. If possible have someone watch the wraping for "unfolding" in the mast. If it starts, unfurl immediately and put more tension on the outhaul to tighten the wrap.
3) The thickest part is the last fee feet of furling, thus the easiest part to unwrap.
4) Lock down both lines with tension when done.
5) Look for "stretched or baggy sail". Usually near the canvas protector. Excess by stretching here at the thickest trouble area.

OK the next tips came from the z-spars expert...

1) Tension on the main halyard has a sweet spot. Too much... upper swivel won't turn.
Too little and you will jamb the top part. It took me 3 try to find the tension sweet spot.

2) Fresh water flush the upper swivel bearing when possible.

and don't all hoot at the last one...

3) your boom needs a 7° angle off horizontal and a slight Port wind if your furling is counterclockwise.

My tip...
even if it is sail stretch, you can leave the last part out of mast and UV won't crumble it until next season.
Jim...

PS: when in mast works ... wow such ease... when it doesn't work....:cussing:

 

[JamesG161]

I forgot.

With a fixed boom vang, then the 7° may be out, but the main halyard tension sweet spot should work that tight leech problem out. The 7° lift gives your outhaul a "mechanical advantage" when unfurling. There is a Youtube on this, by Selden I think.

The key is what part of your sail has the "unfolding". The leech should only be key on the first third (of foot part of sail) furling.
Jim...

 

[Bedouin]

Thank you all for the tips and helpful info. I'm leaving the office at 3pm today to head out to the marina for the long weekend (woohoo!). I'll do some furls and see about adjusting the boom and leech line (not too loose, not too tight) and see what happens.

Enjoy the weekend!

 

[Craig Cook]

hunter owners at our club

We are having a mainsail furling/unfurling issues on our boat as well. The other Hunter owners are all about main halyard tension that was mentioned by JamesG161. The key (they tell me) is to find that sweet spot, they spent some time adjusting mine an inch or so at a time, a little up, a little down, sail in and out each time. We made some huge improvements but it still is harder to unfurl then everyone thinks it should be and usually jams just as the last foot or so is supposed to come out. If we get a calm day this coming weekend, we are going to drop the main completely and start over.

 

[JamesG161]

but it still is harder to unfurl then everyone thinks it should be and usually jams just as the last foot or so is supposed to come out.

Sounds like spider dung in the furling drum bearings. As you unfurl for dropping flush the bearings when you drop the main flush upper swivel bearing.

Also check the boom angle if you can.

Jim....

 

[JamesG161]

I was curious about an update. Any Luck?

I got the info below from Z-Spars manual....

Furling the Sail:
Hoist the boom topping lift or ease the kicker so that the leach has little or no tension.
Maintaining a slight tension on the outhaul, furl the sail with the wind ahead. (A slight pressure from the wind will prevent creases in the sail). Insure that the furling drum has two or three turns of rope left on it when the sail is fully furled. The sail will only furl as far as the reinforcement patch.

Trouble Shooting:
When unfurling the sail if there is resistance for the boom traveler to move, the most likely course will be excessive mainsheet or vang/kicker tension ( my add for the 7° angle in my post ). Check also for friction with in the halyard organizers or at the mast base blocks, if these do not move freely it will cause slowing of the gear.
If the sail is not new there may be localized hardening of the head reinforcement, or fraying at the leach, which can cause friction. It is worth having the sail checked every year to avoid such problems.
When unfurling the sail if there are creases originating at the luff, and if these cannot be removed by increasing the main halyard tension, the most likely cause is that the sail maker has made the luff too long, (too much halyard tension will also cause friction at the halyard swivel).
Alternatively, the sail may have been furled with too much kicker tension.

Maintenance:
Z spar furling masts require minimum maintenance.
The boom traveler should be flushed with detergent and fresh water regularly.
The furling rope should be replaced every four years or as required. Clean and flush top and bottom of furling mechanism regularly and spry with WD 40 or Harken lube (the ball bearings in the furling mechanism and halyard swivel are all stainless steel so need minimum maintenance).
Remove mainsail every year for inspection and every 3-4 years it is recommended that you let your local sailmaker inspect and service the sail.


_________________________

My note...
I would never use WD 40 for anything except killing wasps. They can't fly and I stomp them (cheaper than RAID). Any lube gathers dirt and grim. Keep your bearing clean with water and detergent (not soap). The boom car/traveler can be lubed, since it is much easier to clean.

I hope all went well...
Jim...

 

[jeff356]

Have a 2003 Hunter 356 and once had the same issue with my furling mainsail.

The sail actually folded over in the mast about 80% out because I had not kept tension on the out-haul (although very little needed) and pulled the continuous furling out line too quick and the top of the sail wrapped around the furler near the top. Was unable to get the sail to furl correctly until I lowered the sail, straighten creases and the sail and raised in the track correctly. Now I make sure that I do not unfurl too quickly or without a little out-haul tension. Normally the in mast furling woks great but this was the only time I have had an issue in over 2 years and was glad it was in a relatively calm day without too much wind or a stuck mainsail would have been an issue.

Also to help with any leech flutter I moved my Boom Vang boom connector out so the boom dropped as close to the Arch traveler as possible. I sail with the Boom Vang released until going downwind or need less twist at the top. Helped with sail shape and better speed.

Jeff
s/v LegaSea
2003 Hunter 356