SEIZED Fasteners

Apex

.
Jun 19, 2013
1,197
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
Well, this has been discussed many times before, but what is YOUR favorite recipe for removing seized stainless fasteners in an Aluminum sub-structure?

Point of context for my current struggles: I am in process of removing my rudder (saturated core). 3 of the 4 bolts in the quadrant are out, as are the height adjustment and thru-bolt for collar. Cables are detached as well. The last bolt is currently going through cycles of PB Blaster and heat along with attack by a 14mm 6pt socket attached to cordless impact driver. Heat applied was by propane torch, and heated until grease on the steering cable caught on fire. (YES, Fire extinguisher is on-hand)

Yesterday I was able to get torque applied with the impact driver. No Joy, but at least I was getting torque and shock load onto the bolt.
Previous failed attempts: (I HATE STAINLESS FASTENERS IN ALUMINUM)
1/2" Drive, 9/16"12pt socket: would slip on head, would not fit without short extension to get head of wrench away from quadrant.
1/2" Drive, 9/16 6pt socket: would not fit on head of fastener. Wall thickness of socket is too big for tight clearance to steering quadrant.
3/8" Drive. 14mm 6pt socket, 3in extension: Would slip off fastener.
9/16 and 14mm open end wrench with pipe extension: Would slip off fastener due to angle required to clear shaft collar.
 

BarryL

.
May 21, 2004
1,000
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 Mt. Sinai, NY
Hey,

it sounds like you need a deep 6 pt socket that is thinner. They make them and you need one.

Good luck.

Barry
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
I have the same problem on my jib sheet track end cap screw. Been using PB Blaster and other chemicals, gently using vice grips, and a hammer screwdriver. No luck. I'm worried the machine screw may snap off.
 
Feb 11, 2017
108
Gulfstar 47 NC
Well, this has been discussed many times before, but what is YOUR favorite recipe for removing seized stainless fasteners in an Aluminum sub-structure?

Point of context for my current struggles: I am in process of removing my rudder (saturated core). 3 of the 4 bolts in the quadrant are out, as are the height adjustment and thru-bolt for collar. Cables are detached as well. The last bolt is currently going through cycles of PB Blaster and heat along with attack by a 14mm 6pt socket attached to cordless impact driver. Heat applied was by propane torch, and heated until grease on the steering cable caught on fire. (YES, Fire extinguisher is on-hand)

Yesterday I was able to get torque applied with the impact driver. No Joy, but at least I was getting torque and shock load onto the bolt.
Previous failed attempts: (I HATE STAINLESS FASTENERS IN ALUMINUM)
1/2" Drive, 9/16"12pt socket: would slip on head, would not fit without short extension to get head of wrench away from quadrant.
1/2" Drive, 9/16 6pt socket: would not fit on head of fastener. Wall thickness of socket is too big for tight clearance to steering quadrant.
3/8" Drive. 14mm 6pt socket, 3in extension: Would slip off fastener.
9/16 and 14mm open end wrench with pipe extension: Would slip off fastener due to angle required to clear shaft collar.
Never,never, never use an impact driver on stainless. Guaranteed to seize.
 
Feb 10, 2004
3,919
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
In my experience an impact tool is the best approach. Applying plain torque to fasteners has lead to twisting and breaking. The shock torque of an impact driver has never twisted and broken a bolt in my experience.

I agree that the key to success here, in addition to PB Blaster and moderate heat, is to get a 6 point socket that will fit properly and work with the impact driver. If your battery driven driver is not working you may need to get a more powerful unit. In addition to my Ryobi 18V driver I also have a DeWalt 120V impact driver that will really get up in torque. But I would use the battery unit with a full charge and just hold it on for 30 seconds at a time and alternate with more PB Blaster.
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
You can use an extension and socket with these too. Just make sure it twists in the right direction.

hammer driver.jpg
 
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dmax

.
Jul 29, 2018
971
O'Day 35 Buzzards Bay
I had some stainless u-bolts stuck in aluminum that I applied PB Blaster to twice a week for two months, applied heat etc. In the end, I had to cut the "U" in half so I could unscrew the two-halves of the u-bolt (even that took a long pipe for leverage) - once apart, I could see that the PB Blaster hadn't penetrated the (white) corrosion at all. The bolt that holds the quadrant to the rudder stock (mine was actually a SS pin) was also really stuck - I had to build a substantial press (3/4 thread rod, 1/4" steel bar) to press it out - took a lot of force and made big noises. Again, there was white corrosion that PB Blaster didn't penetrate. You might consider designing a press if you can access the bottom of the bolt. Here's the press I used:
rudderPress.jpg
 

Apex

.
Jun 19, 2013
1,197
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
i thought this would be a favorite subject. What mad concoctions are you using?

Regarding my project: As of now the socket and head is still intact and not rounded. The impact driver is providing torque, but it is not yet budging. PB and heat, then impact. I had some advice to alternate heat with a cold shock (spray on cold water). Then apply torque again. That is the next trial tonight. Fall is coming quickly, and my storage is indoor, but unheated....hence the need to remove the rudder in order to rebuild in my warm basement. No space for the manual impact driver, or a 120v or pneumatic impact driver. The shourt electric is jammed against the wall already.
 

dmax

.
Jul 29, 2018
971
O'Day 35 Buzzards Bay
In case you haven't thought about this, when applying heat try to heat up the aluminum more than the bolt - aluminum expands approximately 2.4 times as much as stainless given the same amount of heat. You could even try to isolate the bolt by covering it with something non-flammable with low heat conductivity (like asbestos but not asbestos). Interesting fact: a hole in steel becomes larger when heated (not totally intuitive).
 
Jun 21, 2004
2,532
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
Well, this has been discussed many times before, but what is YOUR favorite recipe for removing seized stainless fasteners in an Aluminum sub-strucure.
Haven’t tried this, but read recently that applying paraffin wax & heating the nut/bolt will induce a capillary effect into the seized threads. Author claimed that he had better results with this method than PB Blaster. Hey, at this point, anything is worth a try.
 
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Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
Hey,
it sounds like you need a deep 6 pt socket that is thinner. They make them and you need one.
I have a few like this for my cars that I "customized" from regular sockets . Just put them on my grinder
 
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Jan 4, 2006
6,444
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
The idea in applying heat is to get the surrounding metal (aluminum) to heat up faster than the interior metal (SS) so that the ID of the hole becomes larger than the OD of the bolt. Larger ......... maybe 0.000000001" if your lucky, but that's all it takes.

So, living in a perfect world, first thing would be to get the bolt as cold as possible AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE using whatever you can get your hands on. Dry ice would be best but an ice cube is more realistic. Once cold, insulate the bolt head as suggested by @dmax in post #11. Immediately the bolt is cold, move in with a 000 tip oxy/acetylene torch and apply heat around the bolt but not touching the bolt AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.. Try the socket wrench AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

The main objective here is SPEED, SPEED, SPEED. Get the aluminum hot and keep the bolt cold.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,040
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Not that it would be easy to find but if you could get ahold of one of those nitrogen torches the Dermatologists use to freeze pre-cancers would be ideal for the bolt.
 
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Sep 14, 2014
1,251
Catalina 22 Pensacola, Florida
make a rim around the screw or bolt head with rope caulk about 1/4 to 1/2 high, fill it with any carbonated drink product, let work, add more and wait.
then try good fitting phillips (proper size for screw head) or thin walled deep socket and slowly apply torque
Rinse repeat. If not drill out center and use eazy out in hole .
 
Jan 19, 2010
1,169
Catalina 34 Casco Bay
I have an impact driver that is powered by a hammer. Check Powerbuilt 648002 at Home Depot. This works by striking the end cap with a hammer. The force of the strike does 2 things. As the base is driven down ( in) it's internal mechanism turns the bit. Second, the impact forces the bit to maintain deep contact and negates walk out.
 
Apr 22, 2011
865
Hunter 27 Pecan Grove, Oriental, NC
I feel your pain. Removed the quadrant on my H27 last year and had a horrible time getting one of the bolts out. I finally shallowed my pride and had the marina have a go at it. A young guy with arms the size of my legs did manage to remove it.
If and when you do get the bolt out and hopefully the quadrant sections intact, I would suggest that you drill completely through both quadrants and install long bolts instead of using the threaded in aluminum bolts.
 
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Oct 13, 2020
133
catalina C-22 4980 channel islands CA
Beeswax and heat see below from previous post.

A Mapp Gas torch will get it hot enough, maybe to hot. The trick is to use heat and beeswax. Beeswax can be bought at hardware and marine stores and has thousands of uses. Heat screws with a torch and then touch the beeswax to the screws. The trick is to heat the screws add some wax and then use heat add more wax. That way you don't have to overheat anything. The wax will penetrate much deaper the PB or any petroleum based penetrant. Look up using beeswax to remove rusty bolts on YouTube for more info. This works great on aluminum and stainless hardware.. I used this process on my c-22 mast to remove stuck screws and the Clevis pins in the mast head. It worked great no damage to the mast, masthead or the pins. Pins were original from 1974 and very stuck! A small hammer beeswax and a mapp gas torch was all that was needed. Then use Marelube Tef-45 to keep them from corroding on reassembly. You can find Marelube at west marine or Catalina Direct. You don't use much so a small sysringe goes a long way.



I included this link that has more info
Who has bees wax in their tool box ?
Recently I retired from going to sea for 30 years. I sailed deep sea as an engineer. Every ship had blocks of bees wax in the machine shop. It is for sale in the Mariner's Catalog. Steam engineers, even before the Cival War, melted wax on hot stubborn nuts and bolts. It would seep into any...
www.garagejournal.com
www.garagejournal.com

Acetone and ATF is a great tool also. always good to try in situations where excess heat is a problem.