My recently purchased 2002 Hunter 260 came without a jib. I would like to have one made that is a match for the original, but I've been unable so far to find a pattern for that. Can anyone lead me to a source for that original Hunter 260 jib design?
Seeking a precise pattern for a Hunter 260 jib
- Thread starter rburt
- Start date
Do you know who made the original sails, they will have the dimensions and probably replicate them.
Any good sailmaker can make a new sail for your boat. The sail was most likely a crosscut Dacron sail. Those are the least expensive sails to build.
Most if not all sails are now CNC machine cut. The sail is designed on a computer and the cutter cuts the panels to be sewn or glued.
Any good sailmaker can make a new sail for your boat. The sail was most likely a crosscut Dacron sail. Those are the least expensive sails to build.
Most if not all sails are now CNC machine cut. The sail is designed on a computer and the cutter cuts the panels to be sewn or glued.
I do appreciate the helpful comments, but I think I need to be more clear. I've attached a boat and sail profile from the Hunter manual. While I can measure the foretriangle as CrispyCringle points out, you'll see that the original sail design is not a precise match to the foretriangle. The luff is shorter than the forestay, the head of the sail is forward of the mast, the leech passes from there to behind the mast (although the manual calls this a 100% jib), and the foot is convex downward in a manner that places the clew where it needs to be (at least on average) behind the mast and above its base to balance tension on the foot and leech by the sheet through the immobile jib sheet block while also clearing the raised deck and lifelines. I'm hoping perhaps another Hunter 260 (or 26) owner replaced his/her original sail and as a result has an actual design copied from the original or that someone knows who made the originals for Hunter so I could seek them out. It also seems to me that a sailmaker/designer should be able to work from this diagram and get the correct result, but I'd feel better if I started with a copy of the original.
This is your best bet.
Sailmakers know all this and work it into their design. It has been 25 years since the 260 was designed in that time sailmakers have learned all about what works best on the boat and their design will reflect this. There is no need for you to bring a pattern and there probably isn't one that you get. Most sailmakers are pretty tight-lipped about the specifics of their designs. When Rob Mazza drew the boat I doubt he drew the sail pattern. Instead he would have specified the size, 120%, 135% etc and provide the luff, j and I dimensions.
When a winter storm destroyed my jib a couple years back, I called a local sail marker that came highly recommended. I called him with dimensions in hand. We talked discussed the sailing we do and the best sail and material. Then I ask him if he was ready for the dimensions. His response, what day can I meet you to measure your rig and look at what you got? He went on to explain that i have a 20 year old boat and there is chance that it might not match what the original manual says.
Might be the best lesson on buying a sail I will ever get.
There is nothing unique, unusual or proprietary about your boat's headsail. You just need to learn how sail's are measured. The foretriangle is a right triangle, there being a 90 deg angle of the two sides created by the mast and the deck. A headsail is NOT a right triangle, there are no 90 degree corners on the sail. Understand this: headsails are most commonly classified by size. The size is normally expressed as a percentage comparison between the sail's area (sq ft) and the area of the boat's foretriangle, which is the triangle created by the mast, forestay and deck.
Because the mast and deck form a 90 deg corner .. measuring it is quite easy. multiply the mast and the deck lengths... then divide by 2. However, the sail is not a right triangle, there's no 90 degree corner. So in order to determine the area of the sail another measurement is necessary. This is called the LUFF PERPENDICULAR.. ..... the triangle created by the sail needs a perpendicular line drawn from it's longest side through the opposing corner. This "LP" will not be the same length as the foot of the sail.... and it will normally extend past the mast... so here lies your confusion.
My sugestion is you simply do quick search on how to measure sails... or go to just about any sail maker website... it'll become crystal clear. Most sail lofts will have the stock dimensions for most factory boats... this is way easier than you think.. good luck have fun.
I agree with the others- the original pattern is irrelevant. Just the size, if you want to stay with that. Lots of improvements over the years. A sailmaker normally likes to measure himself as mistakes are too costly. But if the OP is in Hamilton Creek Marina, TN, then the issue may be that there is no local sail maker. In which case one of the internet sailmakers is maybe what he's looking at. But even then, they dont need or want a pattern, just the size and type material you want, along with any special features.
I forgot about the SBO parts store. Thats the answer right there if you have to go all internet for the order. Everything I bought there was a perfect fit for my H23.5. That included standing and running rigging, and lots of smaller bits. All fit perfectly. I would highly encourage getting the new sail from them. They know the boats.
I forgot about the SBO parts store. Thats the answer right there if you have to go all internet for the order. Everything I bought there was a perfect fit for my H23.5. That included standing and running rigging, and lots of smaller bits. All fit perfectly. I would highly encourage getting the new sail from them. They know the boats.
@rburt
As a former dealer for Hunter who was not only involved with the design team as well as sellling a very large amount of the 260’s, @caverun gave you the correct dimensions for your 110% jib lapper that was confirmed by Warren Luhrs when the 26 was upgraded
to the 260! @caverun thank you for the post. Warren founded Hunter Marine. He was my friend but now deceased.
What many do not realize, you have a mast with swept back spreaders using the B & R system which does not have a backstay. As a result, the boom is longer allowing for a bigger mainsail. Warren felt this boat would perform better with more power in the main versus in a larger jib. Time has proven that theory.
I believe your marina is in middle Tennessee. There is a sailmaker in Chattanooga, TN…. The sailmaker is:
Blue Star Sails
7471 Twinbrook Drive
Chattanooga, TN 37421
423-255-5961
Kent kinderval
However, @dlochner and @rgranger suggested you consider this forum store also known as SBO. First, that store has the complete build list for nearly all the Hunter sailboats parts list or build list. Secondly, the owner of SBO, Al Fooks, was a young man who built the boats to include your 260. Al also worked in warranty, dealer parts sales and then customer parts sales. He came on board with SBO when Hunter chose SBO to handle customer parts sales. Two added fine SBO representatives, Mike Thomas and Joe Kerr, also were former Hunter employees too. You can’t go wrong with theses guys. They do offer your Hunter 260 jib lapper for sale. Their contact number is 1-877-932-7245.
In addition, @rgranger who use to own the hunter 26 and @caverun who now owns a 260 and others are a good source of information too.
welcome aboard
Crazy Dave Condon
As a former dealer for Hunter who was not only involved with the design team as well as sellling a very large amount of the 260’s, @caverun gave you the correct dimensions for your 110% jib lapper that was confirmed by Warren Luhrs when the 26 was upgraded
to the 260! @caverun thank you for the post. Warren founded Hunter Marine. He was my friend but now deceased.
What many do not realize, you have a mast with swept back spreaders using the B & R system which does not have a backstay. As a result, the boom is longer allowing for a bigger mainsail. Warren felt this boat would perform better with more power in the main versus in a larger jib. Time has proven that theory.
I believe your marina is in middle Tennessee. There is a sailmaker in Chattanooga, TN…. The sailmaker is:
Blue Star Sails
7471 Twinbrook Drive
Chattanooga, TN 37421
423-255-5961
Kent kinderval
However, @dlochner and @rgranger suggested you consider this forum store also known as SBO. First, that store has the complete build list for nearly all the Hunter sailboats parts list or build list. Secondly, the owner of SBO, Al Fooks, was a young man who built the boats to include your 260. Al also worked in warranty, dealer parts sales and then customer parts sales. He came on board with SBO when Hunter chose SBO to handle customer parts sales. Two added fine SBO representatives, Mike Thomas and Joe Kerr, also were former Hunter employees too. You can’t go wrong with theses guys. They do offer your Hunter 260 jib lapper for sale. Their contact number is 1-877-932-7245.
In addition, @rgranger who use to own the hunter 26 and @caverun who now owns a 260 and others are a good source of information too.
welcome aboard
Crazy Dave Condon
First, I've got to say how impressed I am with the friendly and helpful advice I've received here from so many. Thank you. I only wish I'd been smart enough to post my query before I had already obligated myself to an online sailmaker (Direct Sails). That said, my purchase from them may turn out just fine...I believe they are trying hard to work with me and my concerns on this, so I do not want to malign them. They've presented an initial design based on measurements I provided of the features of the boat, which, except for a CDI FF2 furler are all original. My response was to overlay the drawing they provided on the Hunter 260 profile I uploaded here previously. I realize that might not be an appropriate assessment because I do not know if the Hunter profile diagram is strictly accurate. Furthermore, I simply matched the luff lengths to scale one figure to the other, so if those are different it would introduce error. Nevertheless, I figured it should be close. I've posted the overlay here in case anyone's curious (note that in the colored sail-design figure the head of the sail contacted the mast, which isn't the case on the Hunter, so the mast in that figure tilts slightly forward to align the luffs in the figures). The result is that the clews do not align very well. I've pointed that out to Direct Sails, and I'm still waiting to hear back, but in the meantime I posted the original query here thinking an original sail pattern would be helpful. Caverun's measurements and the Direct Sails design measurements are pretty close except for the leech, which I suspect supports my concern about the clew location:
Caverun Direct Sails Design
Luff 27’ 2” 27' 8"
Foot 10’ 5” 10' 8"
Leech 24’ 0" 25' 5"
My original post said that my boat came without a jib. Actually, it had one (not original equipment), but it's such a poor fit I can barely use it. The clew lies so low I can get virtually no tension on the leech with the jib sheet through the single, mobile block. The boat points into the wind better without the jib than with it. Hence my determination to get the clew right.
Thanks again for everyone's interest in my problem! If this is as bad as my problems get, I'm a lucky man.
Caverun Direct Sails Design
Luff 27’ 2” 27' 8"
Foot 10’ 5” 10' 8"
Leech 24’ 0" 25' 5"
My original post said that my boat came without a jib. Actually, it had one (not original equipment), but it's such a poor fit I can barely use it. The clew lies so low I can get virtually no tension on the leech with the jib sheet through the single, mobile block. The boat points into the wind better without the jib than with it. Hence my determination to get the clew right.
Thanks again for everyone's interest in my problem! If this is as bad as my problems get, I'm a lucky man.
The extra 6" on your new luff should be OK. Here's a shot of my jib under sail and there is some extra room on the furler at the head.
Attachments
Hate to break this to you, the dimensions you submitted to Direct Sails are incorrect and you will have an unusable sail.
The focus has been on your difficulty trimming the leech and assuming it is too long. I suspect that is not the problem. Looking at the Hunter drawing it appears the jib is on a pennant which raises the tack height by an unknown amount. If your headsail tack is attached to the furler without the pennant, then this is most definitely the problem.
A headsail should have the tack and clew at about the same height above the deck. In order to have more living space in the cabin Hunter pushed the cabin sides out to the gunwale and raised the top of the cabin a fair amount. The jib tracks are located on top of the cabin at what looks like about a foot. The more typical position for jib and Genoa tracks are on the side deck which places the clew a little below the level of the tack attached to the furler. This position allows for better trimming and the geometry allows for more tension on the leech and foot when going up wind. Raising the tack on the 260's jib places the tack and clew at the same level. Without the pennant the foot of the sail will be below the clew making it impossible to tension the leech. The geometry just doesn't work. I suspect the sail may lay on the cabin top when sheeted close in.
The other issue with the new dimensions is the longer luff. The area between the forestay and mast gets pretty small at the upper end. When tacking the top of the sail will tend to hang up going through the small slot and will experience excessive wear. The corners of the sail will be (or should be) heavily reinforced as this is where the stress on the sail is concentrated. As a result it will be stiffer making it harder to fit through the slot.
If you are using the pennant, then the sail you have is too big and ordering a larger one won't solve the problem. Go with @caverun's dimensions or find a loft that knows the unique build of the 260 and can build a sail to fit the boat.
As a small business owner, I will say it again and again.... Hire a local sailmaker who will look out for you. Someone that will make time to visit your boat and take the measurements instead of teaching you how to take the measurements over the phone. If you are lucky enough your sailmaker will be a rigger and can help you on that too.
As a small business owner I can assure you the best deal is way different the someone having the best price.
@Crusty Ol Salt
I concur with you recommending local sail lofts; however, there are many marinas and private docks with sailboats in rural America that do not have the luxury of having a local sail loft to go to. Therefore, they have to rely on lofts supplying the correct sail dimensions. Yes, I recommend SOB’s forum store. Why?
The owner of SBO, Al Fooks, use to be employed by Hunter Marine building sailboats and then selling parts direct to dealers and customers. Later when Hunter chose SBO to sell parts to their customers, Al went with SBO choosing to stay in Florida where the manufacturers were which was a smart move when Hunter closed. In addition, two key personnel joined SBO who were key employees at Hunter.
Al has the build list of parts for nearly all Hunter sailboats. Other records which was considered a treasure trove of information was found with the aid of Eddie breeden, Hunter Warranty mgr and my friend and customer, Jim Seamons, was given to SBO.
Over the years as a dealer but now retired, every sail orders thru Al as an example were correctly made. If there was ever an issue, it was handled quickly with the consumer being satisfied. I have known Al Fooks, Mike Thomas and Joe Kerr for many years and they are professionals which is why I recommend the SBO store.
Dave Condon
American Marine & Sail Supply
Retired
I concur with you recommending local sail lofts; however, there are many marinas and private docks with sailboats in rural America that do not have the luxury of having a local sail loft to go to. Therefore, they have to rely on lofts supplying the correct sail dimensions. Yes, I recommend SOB’s forum store. Why?
The owner of SBO, Al Fooks, use to be employed by Hunter Marine building sailboats and then selling parts direct to dealers and customers. Later when Hunter chose SBO to sell parts to their customers, Al went with SBO choosing to stay in Florida where the manufacturers were which was a smart move when Hunter closed. In addition, two key personnel joined SBO who were key employees at Hunter.
Al has the build list of parts for nearly all Hunter sailboats. Other records which was considered a treasure trove of information was found with the aid of Eddie breeden, Hunter Warranty mgr and my friend and customer, Jim Seamons, was given to SBO.
Over the years as a dealer but now retired, every sail orders thru Al as an example were correctly made. If there was ever an issue, it was handled quickly with the consumer being satisfied. I have known Al Fooks, Mike Thomas and Joe Kerr for many years and they are professionals which is why I recommend the SBO store.
Dave Condon
American Marine & Sail Supply
Retired