What I forgot to add in my note about falling off my boat, is that now I trail a 100 foot line with 5 big stryofoam floats on it, tied to the tiller. I have haven't hooked it on to the disconnect switch of the motor, but will do so next time I am out. Last year, someone asked what I pulling behind the boat? Was I fishing, if so, that was a funny looking rig. MY REPLY WAS: THAT IS MY SECURITY BLANKET!
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Darrel
scary
I won't want to be sailing around your neck of the woods. Again, buy a harness and tether, then wear it and be safe the right way.
I won't want to be sailing around your neck of the woods. Again, buy a harness and tether, then wear it and be safe the right way.
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Bryan C.
Towed line no guarantee
Don't assume you will be able to pull yourself in on a line. I haven't tried it, but other folks you have report that over a couple knots it is virtually impossible to pull yourself forward on the line.
Don't assume you will be able to pull yourself in on a line. I haven't tried it, but other folks you have report that over a couple knots it is virtually impossible to pull yourself forward on the line.
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Bob England
False security?
In addition to the problem of pulling yourself back to the boat against a several knot water flow, there is the issue of whether or not you could even catch the line. At 6 knots, a boat is traveling 10 feet per second. With a 100' line, you would have ten seconds to (1) fall overboard, (2) get back up to the surface, (3) orient yourself to the boat, (4) swim at least 1/2 the boat's beam width, and (5) get a good grip on the line. Good luck. It sounds like the safety harness is the better answer. So, why do I wear one but don't usually bother to clip on?? Human nature may be our worst enemy.
In addition to the problem of pulling yourself back to the boat against a several knot water flow, there is the issue of whether or not you could even catch the line. At 6 knots, a boat is traveling 10 feet per second. With a 100' line, you would have ten seconds to (1) fall overboard, (2) get back up to the surface, (3) orient yourself to the boat, (4) swim at least 1/2 the boat's beam width, and (5) get a good grip on the line. Good luck. It sounds like the safety harness is the better answer. So, why do I wear one but don't usually bother to clip on?? Human nature may be our worst enemy.
Towed line
We actually got a chance to practise this with our old Hunter 25. One day in Burlington the River was running unusally fast downtide– the aftermath of some serious rain over the weekend or something. The water was loaded with what we called 'rafts of sh*t' -flotsam and jetsam. It might've been doing five or six knots (that would be a LOT). Thinking this interesting we went swimming at the dock, but my dad insisted that we tie a lifevest to about 50 ft of line and trail it astern. There was a wake round the front of the vest in the water. You could not make headway against the current merely by swimming. We took to diving straight off the bow pulpit– you came up at about the shrouds with the hull bumping your shoulder. Diving off the transom put you about 25 ft behind the life vest when you came up. Of course we could make it sidestream to the dock. But I have no doubt that trailing a 50-75-ft line under power against the current would fail to save anyone. It would create drag and annoy/endanger other boaters and lull you into a false sense of security in which you might do something stupid. Any opportunity for you to safely test one of these theories should be taken. Once you see how futile your 'safety net' becomes you will never look upon pure theory again. I made the point in one of these boards about conducting man-overboard drills too. Of course being sensible is the first prevention. 'One hand for yourself and one for the ship,' my dad taught us. Like much better sailors I am naturally cautious– I've never fallen over by accident, EVER, and maybe that's why. Of course now that I've said that I'm sure I'll do something stupid this summer! [laugh] J Cherubini II
We actually got a chance to practise this with our old Hunter 25. One day in Burlington the River was running unusally fast downtide– the aftermath of some serious rain over the weekend or something. The water was loaded with what we called 'rafts of sh*t' -flotsam and jetsam. It might've been doing five or six knots (that would be a LOT). Thinking this interesting we went swimming at the dock, but my dad insisted that we tie a lifevest to about 50 ft of line and trail it astern. There was a wake round the front of the vest in the water. You could not make headway against the current merely by swimming. We took to diving straight off the bow pulpit– you came up at about the shrouds with the hull bumping your shoulder. Diving off the transom put you about 25 ft behind the life vest when you came up. Of course we could make it sidestream to the dock. But I have no doubt that trailing a 50-75-ft line under power against the current would fail to save anyone. It would create drag and annoy/endanger other boaters and lull you into a false sense of security in which you might do something stupid. Any opportunity for you to safely test one of these theories should be taken. Once you see how futile your 'safety net' becomes you will never look upon pure theory again. I made the point in one of these boards about conducting man-overboard drills too. Of course being sensible is the first prevention. 'One hand for yourself and one for the ship,' my dad taught us. Like much better sailors I am naturally cautious– I've never fallen over by accident, EVER, and maybe that's why. Of course now that I've said that I'm sure I'll do something stupid this summer! [laugh] J Cherubini II
Safety harness tethers
I was just thinking– The purpose of a safety harness is NOT to keep you close to the boat when you go over. It's to keep you ON the boat. No tether line ought to be over 6 ft long. You should just about get your feet or head through the lifelines before it catches you. That way you have plenty of help getting yourself righted again even if you do get bruised from it. If you think 6 ft is annoying on deck, think about all the inconvenience of watching your unmanned boat sail itself towards Portugal and leave you behind forever. JC
I was just thinking– The purpose of a safety harness is NOT to keep you close to the boat when you go over. It's to keep you ON the boat. No tether line ought to be over 6 ft long. You should just about get your feet or head through the lifelines before it catches you. That way you have plenty of help getting yourself righted again even if you do get bruised from it. If you think 6 ft is annoying on deck, think about all the inconvenience of watching your unmanned boat sail itself towards Portugal and leave you behind forever. JC
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David Foster
PFD, Harness, and Tether
See another recent posting on this subject. In summary: 1. PFD's are required when on deck underway. 2. Harness, and (6 ft) tether are required to go forward in significant seas - certainly 3 ft and +. 3. Skipper always wears a tether and harness unless at least one crew member is qualified to take the Lady Lillie through the man overboard procedure. Another tidbit: Coast Guard reports that a leading cause of man overboard is relieving oneself over the side!
See another recent posting on this subject. In summary: 1. PFD's are required when on deck underway. 2. Harness, and (6 ft) tether are required to go forward in significant seas - certainly 3 ft and +. 3. Skipper always wears a tether and harness unless at least one crew member is qualified to take the Lady Lillie through the man overboard procedure. Another tidbit: Coast Guard reports that a leading cause of man overboard is relieving oneself over the side!
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Patrick Ewing
Use a quick release shackle at the harness
end of the tether. There was a body found just last summer tethered to his sailboat which had finally run aground on Whidbey Island. He had used an attachment (carabiner?) which he couldn't release and apparently he was unable to get back to the boat and the force of the water had pulled him under water in spite of the bouyancy of his vest. There are other examples of this happening. You are better off to stay on the boat or get completely free of it. Incidentally, a simple carabiner is not a good attachment to use on a tether at all. It can detach itself accidentally very easily. A good example of this is if you simply move the tether in a circle around a padeye to which it is clipped. It will frequently detach itself. I would suggest carrying small flares and a waterproof vhf if you are at risk of falling overboard. There is a company in Seattle which is making a transmitter which will sense if you get beyond a short distance from the boat and shut off the engine or send a signal to the autopilot, alarm, etc. A towed line may be effective for this purpose (engine shut off or steering change) but it may cause other problems and may not be useful in rough conditions.
end of the tether. There was a body found just last summer tethered to his sailboat which had finally run aground on Whidbey Island. He had used an attachment (carabiner?) which he couldn't release and apparently he was unable to get back to the boat and the force of the water had pulled him under water in spite of the bouyancy of his vest. There are other examples of this happening. You are better off to stay on the boat or get completely free of it. Incidentally, a simple carabiner is not a good attachment to use on a tether at all. It can detach itself accidentally very easily. A good example of this is if you simply move the tether in a circle around a padeye to which it is clipped. It will frequently detach itself. I would suggest carrying small flares and a waterproof vhf if you are at risk of falling overboard. There is a company in Seattle which is making a transmitter which will sense if you get beyond a short distance from the boat and shut off the engine or send a signal to the autopilot, alarm, etc. A towed line may be effective for this purpose (engine shut off or steering change) but it may cause other problems and may not be useful in rough conditions.
J
Justin - O'day Owners Web
Tethers
A previous poster wrote - You are better off to stay on the boat or get completely free of it. I don't agree. Under some circumstances the tether is going to save you. Here in Maine, the water temp never gets to more than about 60 degrees (except in some funny currents). In 60 degree water you are going to die of exposure in about an hour. You are going to lose the abilit to swim long before that. If you can swim two knots, you swim a lot better than I do. So if you're more than a mile from land you're going to die if you can't either get back to your boat or get picked up by another. That's if you're in really good shape. I'm fit, but not a triathelete. I veiw the tether as a device first and foremost to keep me on the boat. I use the windward jackline and a shortish tether so that if I fall on deck, its unlikely I'll fall overboard. Sometimes its limiting, but I view the imposition as worth the benefit. Secondly, when I sail alone I do not usually cleat my sheets. This comes from years of dinghy sailing where if you turtle the boat with cleated sheets you have a bear of a time righting it. So, if I were to go overboard alone under most circumstances, the boat is going to stall, and I may be able to get back on it. Thirdly, when I sail with other people, it makes their job of recovering me a lot easier if they don't have to look for me. If I'm attached to the boat, I'm not hard to find. Many people view wearing this equipment restrictive, especially as in order to be effective you need to the taught jacklines and short tethers. I'm willing to endure that restriction in the interest of insurance. Paranoid? Maybe, but it works for me. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
A previous poster wrote - You are better off to stay on the boat or get completely free of it. I don't agree. Under some circumstances the tether is going to save you. Here in Maine, the water temp never gets to more than about 60 degrees (except in some funny currents). In 60 degree water you are going to die of exposure in about an hour. You are going to lose the abilit to swim long before that. If you can swim two knots, you swim a lot better than I do. So if you're more than a mile from land you're going to die if you can't either get back to your boat or get picked up by another. That's if you're in really good shape. I'm fit, but not a triathelete. I veiw the tether as a device first and foremost to keep me on the boat. I use the windward jackline and a shortish tether so that if I fall on deck, its unlikely I'll fall overboard. Sometimes its limiting, but I view the imposition as worth the benefit. Secondly, when I sail alone I do not usually cleat my sheets. This comes from years of dinghy sailing where if you turtle the boat with cleated sheets you have a bear of a time righting it. So, if I were to go overboard alone under most circumstances, the boat is going to stall, and I may be able to get back on it. Thirdly, when I sail with other people, it makes their job of recovering me a lot easier if they don't have to look for me. If I'm attached to the boat, I'm not hard to find. Many people view wearing this equipment restrictive, especially as in order to be effective you need to the taught jacklines and short tethers. I'm willing to endure that restriction in the interest of insurance. Paranoid? Maybe, but it works for me. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
EPIRBs
This may sound dated now but are personal PFD-mounted EPIRBs still around? Supposedly they are to send out an emergency beacon on 121.5. I remember when they were almost standard equipment on offshore boats' lifevests, about $100 or so which is not too costly considering you will have the whole world looking for you. Anyone have any recent experience with them? JC
This may sound dated now but are personal PFD-mounted EPIRBs still around? Supposedly they are to send out an emergency beacon on 121.5. I remember when they were almost standard equipment on offshore boats' lifevests, about $100 or so which is not too costly considering you will have the whole world looking for you. Anyone have any recent experience with them? JC
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Don
Patrick - more info on the Seattle company
I'd be very interested in the transmitter you mentioned in your posting. Do you have contact info, prices or any other information?
I'd be very interested in the transmitter you mentioned in your posting. Do you have contact info, prices or any other information?
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Patrick Ewing
Quick release shackle will give you the option
and that is what I meant to say. That is I would like to be able to release myself after a while if I am being pulled under the water or beaten against the side of the boat while being restrained by the tether. Obviously, it would be better to get back aboard. Justin, the water temperature here is rarely above 50 degrees and I figure that I have about five good minutes or so to get to safety or else start to do what I can to get rescued before I lose dexterity, strength, and mental ability. I have had some experience trying to install two screws while in water three feet deep. I found that I was not able to install both or them even though I was in relative safety. To help myself as best I can requires that I fire a flare or get on the radio before I lose the ability to do it. JC - an EPIRB must be a 406 mhz model or the local authorities will not respond to it any longer according to what I have heard here. An older model may help them to find your body but it will not initiate an immediate search and rescue. The CG came to the store one day recently after someone accidentally set a 406 model off. I was surprised that the signal could even be received through the roof and walls of the building. That experience leads me to be a lot more confident that the 406 system works for the purpose. The ones I have seen are big and expensive though. Don - I will look for the name of the company making the system I mentioned. It may not be in production yet but is being developed.
and that is what I meant to say. That is I would like to be able to release myself after a while if I am being pulled under the water or beaten against the side of the boat while being restrained by the tether. Obviously, it would be better to get back aboard. Justin, the water temperature here is rarely above 50 degrees and I figure that I have about five good minutes or so to get to safety or else start to do what I can to get rescued before I lose dexterity, strength, and mental ability. I have had some experience trying to install two screws while in water three feet deep. I found that I was not able to install both or them even though I was in relative safety. To help myself as best I can requires that I fire a flare or get on the radio before I lose the ability to do it. JC - an EPIRB must be a 406 mhz model or the local authorities will not respond to it any longer according to what I have heard here. An older model may help them to find your body but it will not initiate an immediate search and rescue. The CG came to the store one day recently after someone accidentally set a 406 model off. I was surprised that the signal could even be received through the roof and walls of the building. That experience leads me to be a lot more confident that the 406 system works for the purpose. The ones I have seen are big and expensive though. Don - I will look for the name of the company making the system I mentioned. It may not be in production yet but is being developed.
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GARRY @ S/V TASHTEGO
Tethers and Jacklines
Just a note about tethers and jack lines. First, UV resistant, 2 inch, very strong, flat nylon jacklines are available from sailrite <www.sailrite.com>. Second, it is probably better to use a short tether and a jackline that is not too taught. Putting a load in the middle of a taught jack line puts a teriffic strain on the attachment points at either end. It is proportional to the tangent of the angle between the load and the tether and goes to infinity when the jackline doesn't sag at all. This is the principal behind "swigging"up a line by pulling it sideways and then taking up the slack like the square riggers used to do. A slightly slack jackline and a short tether gives as much mobility as a taught jackline and a long tether but a fall on the tether will also tend to slide you to the center of the tether where the boat is wider. Using the slack jackline on the weather side and a short tether gives the least stress on the jackline mounting points and it will still keep you in the boat.
Just a note about tethers and jack lines. First, UV resistant, 2 inch, very strong, flat nylon jacklines are available from sailrite <www.sailrite.com>. Second, it is probably better to use a short tether and a jackline that is not too taught. Putting a load in the middle of a taught jack line puts a teriffic strain on the attachment points at either end. It is proportional to the tangent of the angle between the load and the tether and goes to infinity when the jackline doesn't sag at all. This is the principal behind "swigging"up a line by pulling it sideways and then taking up the slack like the square riggers used to do. A slightly slack jackline and a short tether gives as much mobility as a taught jackline and a long tether but a fall on the tether will also tend to slide you to the center of the tether where the boat is wider. Using the slack jackline on the weather side and a short tether gives the least stress on the jackline mounting points and it will still keep you in the boat.
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Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Taught line correction
Patrick - quick-release _IS_ a good idea, as you say, because it gives you the option. My tethers are set up with hooks that will release under load if you want them to. I wasn't reacting to that in my last post, just the blanket idea that its better to be on the boat or totally free of it. There may be places that being in the water isn't such a bad thing (and I'd rather be in any of those places right now; Maine is cold tonight), but here that logic doesn't work as well. Garry, You are absolutely correct that the jacklines shouldn't be tight, but at the same time in order to stay on the relatively narrow deck of my C25, they need to short enough that when they angle under tension they don't allow enough movement to drop me overboard. For my setup, that means no slack at rest, but not really under tension. I am sacrificing some strength that way, but I hope it isn't enough to matter. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Patrick - quick-release _IS_ a good idea, as you say, because it gives you the option. My tethers are set up with hooks that will release under load if you want them to. I wasn't reacting to that in my last post, just the blanket idea that its better to be on the boat or totally free of it. There may be places that being in the water isn't such a bad thing (and I'd rather be in any of those places right now; Maine is cold tonight), but here that logic doesn't work as well. Garry, You are absolutely correct that the jacklines shouldn't be tight, but at the same time in order to stay on the relatively narrow deck of my C25, they need to short enough that when they angle under tension they don't allow enough movement to drop me overboard. For my setup, that means no slack at rest, but not really under tension. I am sacrificing some strength that way, but I hope it isn't enough to matter. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
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Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Personal epirbs
I have seen literature recently for two different interesting systems - First were small 406 EPIRBs that would attach to a vest. Price was to be about $800 each. The more interesting system to me included small Class B EPRIBs that would attach to vests and be water activated. The other part of the system is a directional antenna on the boat with a display at the helm that would be on stand-by until needed. When a crew member equiped with the system went overboard, the receiver would sound an alarm, then direct the boat to the missing crew member. Since the beacon is a Class B unit, others could also home in on it to effect a rescue. I believe an early version of this unit was tested in Practical Sailor or Practical Boat Owner within the last year. I don't think the unit tested did the Class B thing, but they are available now. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
I have seen literature recently for two different interesting systems - First were small 406 EPIRBs that would attach to a vest. Price was to be about $800 each. The more interesting system to me included small Class B EPRIBs that would attach to vests and be water activated. The other part of the system is a directional antenna on the boat with a display at the helm that would be on stand-by until needed. When a crew member equiped with the system went overboard, the receiver would sound an alarm, then direct the boat to the missing crew member. Since the beacon is a Class B unit, others could also home in on it to effect a rescue. I believe an early version of this unit was tested in Practical Sailor or Practical Boat Owner within the last year. I don't think the unit tested did the Class B thing, but they are available now. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
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