secondary bilge

Sep 20, 2011
135
hunter 30 md
1980 hunter 30, right nowshe has a rule 1100 with sticky float(replacing with rule automatic) with its own battery. My dilemna is im stepping in a rule1500 automatic in bilge also but dont know where to dischage it overboard.
Possible solutions,,,,, run under flooring up into engine bay and tap into cockpit drain to discharge out back
Or
Cut galley sink drain hose and put a "T" or "Y" connector there and discharge thru drain,( only concern there is will water re enter when boat is heeling? Idk
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated, just dont want to put any more holes in the boat that are not already there !
 

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May 24, 2004
7,173
CC 30 South Florida
Sorry, a 2nd bilge pump will require a dedicated discharge hose and port. The use of check valves to try and use a single discharge hose is discouraged due to the incidence of fouling for these valves. Stop for a second to analyze what is it you want to do and for what reason, a bilge pump from 500GPH to 1500GPH is a convenience item to automatically expel incidental water that collects in the bilge so you do not have to manually do it. These pumps will not be able to handle any significant water intrusion and provide very little safety. I find that a 500GPH is usually adequate for the task but for a smaller boat I would consider a 1000GPH as a smaller boat will fill up faster than a larger one. I see no problem in switching your pump to an automatic one but refrain from adding a 2nd pump unless you are willing to drill a 2nd discharge port. A 2nd one might add to your peace of mind but would do little to improve safety. My biggest fear of a bilge pump failure is that the bilge may overflow and mar the finish on the cabin sole.
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,134
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Secondary bilge pumps below decks are a bit of a problem to install as far as I can tell. For example, there are two "no-no's" that I'm aware of. Discharge should not be through cockpit drain hoses; discharge should not be below the waterline (as in a sink discharge). So, what does that leave? An existing hole through the side of the hull fairly high above the waterline, or a new hole in a similar spot. The only existing hole far above the water line in my boat not already attached to the bilge pump is the vent hole to the holding tank. Maybe you can fit some kind of tee on that, where you can pump water out of the boat instead of into the holding tank; and still vent the tank when water is not being pumped. But--that might take some fancy plumbing.
 
Oct 6, 2007
1,136
Hunter H30 1982 Chicago IL
As the others said -- no, no, no to discharging a bilge pump through either scupper hoses or sink drains. I understand not wanting more holes in your hull, I feel the same way, but keep in mind that a through-hull fitting way up near the toe rail does not present the kind of risk that one below or near the waterline does. Having bilge pumps that function as intended, without creating new risks, is more important.

In my '82 H30, which may be a little different from your '80 model, the primary bilge pump discharge was originally behind the electrical panel above the nav desk. Water and electricity didn't seem like a wise combination, so I moved the discharge to the opposite side, snaking the hose up behind under the galley and into the locker behind the cooktop, where I was able to install a new through-hull high on the hull at the shortest possible distance from the pump. When I added a secondary bilge pump, located higher and forward in the bilge, I ran the hose up behind the head to a new through-hull in the locker behind the lav sink, next to the waste tank vent. Again, about the shortest distance possible from the pump. Going up the back of the hanging locker opposite the head was another option, but I wanted the the secondary bilge to discharge on the port side which is dockside for me. Hunter moved the electrical panel a few times over the years they made the H30, so above the nav desk may also be an option for you if the electrical panel is elsewhere. That's four possible bilge pump thru-hull locations that are discreet from inside the '82 H30 cabin, and hopefully yours too.
 
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Jun 21, 2007
2,117
Hunter Cherubini 36_80-82 Sausalito / San Francisco Bay
A luxury feature of My 1980 36 is that my entire head room can serve double duty as a shower stall. I will never use it. So the dedicated shower drain hose now is connected to a second bilge pump. Don't know though if this is an option for you ...
 

braol

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Apr 16, 2014
348
Hunter 27 Rebel 16 Great Lakes Naval Base, IL
Dedicated through-hull. Go larger...3000gph if you're really serious about draining the boat an emergency (for me, any large leak at dockside while I'm away is an emergency...).

Also, while at sea, always know where your raw water intake hose disconnect tools are at so that you can use your engine as a pump in-case of electrical failure. You'd be surprised how much water the engine can pump!
 
Jun 5, 2010
1,123
Hunter 25 Burlington NJ
Bilge-pump caveats

By way of example, on Cherubini 44s we fit three bilge pumps-- a Whale or Edson dual-diaphragm manual pump, worth about 30 GPM, and two 1500-2000-GPH pumps stacked one on top of the other in the 'well' (deepest sump of bilge). All three have individual through-hulls in the waterline stripe with seacocks.

The two in the well are a primary dewatering pump and its backup. An indicator light on the panel tells when the secondary pump (the one on top) kicks on. This means one of two things: either your primary pump has failed, so the second one is now working, which means you have about 9" of water in the sump (it's about 32" deep and about 11" x 16" in area); or you are taking on so much water that both pumps have to be running. About 99 percent of the time the light comes on, it will mean the lower pump or its float switch has failed. These boats just don't take on that kind of water volume (seriously, they don't).

If you are fitting a secondary bilge pump, consider making it a backup to the other one. This could mean mounting it slightly higher in elevation, either near to the primary one or else somewhere else in the contiguous bilge system. If you have two separate sumps (not connected except over the floorboards) the two pumps won't serve as backups to each other. The Hunter 25.5 has this problem. I worked on a 1959 Swiftsure that did too. I consider this a major oversight.

Some caveats:
As others have said, absolutely make each pump have a separate exit leading as directly from the pump to the sea as possible. On the C44 we loop each hose up as high as we can, fitted with a vented loop and leading down again to the waterline; this is primarily for aesthetics as they could easily exit right under the gunwale and do without the vented loops. Otherwise every pump-our exit near the waterline must have a vented loop mounted as high as possible, to avoid allowing seawater to siphon back into the bilge (same as with a toilet inlet). Technically check-valves are acceptable as an alternative; in practice, however, they restrict flow where you need it most: between the pump and the through-hull.

On Diana I mounted my (manual and electric) pumps' vented loops inside the cockpit coaming, from underneath. From these aft there is a clean straight downward run to the transom. Outbound from the vented loop, have no uphill turns at all.

Dumping bilge pumps into the cockpit, to save either appearances or installation hassles, is about the worst case of false economy I can think of. All I say to this is: what if the cockpit drain through-hull (typically the biggest through-hull in the boat) is the thing that's leaking? All your bilgewater intake will just be recycled. (Duhh!)

I don't go in for that '6 inches above the waterline' myth. I say ALL through-hulls below the maximum-heel-angle's waterline (more like 6 inches from the gunwale) MUST be fitted with seacocks. (Read cockpit-drain point, above.) This includes those in the transom or stern being above the highest waterline when the boat is poorly loaded (such as with seawater in the cockpit), riding big sea or surfing/surging. All these fittings should be double-clamped and should use heavy-duty PVC seawater/sanitation hose (Shields 148 or Trident equivalent). I would recommend Marelon ones for the seacocks, especially if they are located where you find it awkward to lubricate zerk fittings every month for the rest of your life.

That brings us to: all seacocks should be readily accessible, not restricted by fittings, bulkheads, stowed gear or gymnastic requirements from being turned easily and regularly. Bilge-pump outlets mounted in the rear quarters of the boat can be the worst culprits for this.

If you have to mount a bilge pump rather far forward, there is nothing wrong with having it exit the side of the boat. Just fit the vented loop and seacock appropriately (both being all the more important the farther forward they are located).

Lastly: the less hose the better. A direct route, with no pipe elbows and extra hose clamps, is always preferable. If the pump has to be rather far forward this is one major point in favor of its exit being amidships.
 
Jun 5, 2010
1,123
Hunter 25 Burlington NJ
Broal, good point

...while at sea, always know where your raw water intake hose disconnect tools are at so that you can use your engine as a pump in-case of electrical failure. You'd be surprised how much water the engine can pump!
I read a fascinating article
in about 1975 about a trimaran holed at sea. They had only about 90 seconds but might have had much less had the crew not started the engine, which was still pumping out bilgewater when the boat slipped under.

Our new C44 is quite different from the previous ones; but on the last boat I had the opportunity to inform the client's (nervous) wife that there were no less than seven ways to dewater the boat in extreme circumstances:

1. Primary electric bilge pump, 1500-2000 GPH;
2. Secondary electric bilge pump, 2000 GPH;
3. Manual bilge pump, 30 GPM (if one diaphragm rips it will still pump at 15 GPM);
4. Seawater deck washdown pump, 5-8 GPM; turn handle on Marelon seacock and it will draw from bilge;
5. Graywater-tank pump; pull drain plug in end of tank, tank will flood with bilgewater (from sump-- see other post), pump will empty it;
6. Blackwater-tank pump, as above-- kind of messy, but this is an emergency;
7. Engine-intake pump, turn handle on seacock, meant for winterizing, and pump will draw from bilge.

If the boat has a seawater cockpit shower (option), this can be made to work the same way.

This is a boat with no keel bolts and only three seacocks below the waterline (engine intake, seawater-flush intake, and blackwater-tank discharge). It just does not take on water like some boats can; and typically bilges get wet only from mishaps inside the boat (freshwater plumbing, spills, etc.) or from rainwater when hatches are left open.

Despite its very pretty appearance, the Cherubini 44 is very rugged, meant for the toughest offshore sailing, extended (weeks on end) cruising away from land, in any weather, anywhere in the world. I mention this because we can all learn from examples such as 'the best-built boat in the world' (name one better? --anyone?) and apply what we learn to enhance the safety and utility of our own boats.

'Stupidity can be defined as the refusal to accept new knowledge when it's presented to you for free.' --my dad. ;)