Secondary bilge pump and high water alarm

Aug 29, 2016
131
Catalina 2004 310 (Hull #250) BC
I was told that a second bilge pump, mounted at a higher (water) level than the original one, should be mounted in the bilge and connected to a high water alarm. Has anyone done this?
My current Rule pump is 500gph. Would a secondary pump hose output to the first, or output to a completely different outlet?

Thanks
 
May 1, 2011
4,255
Pearson 37 Lusby MD
I added a secondary bilge pump several years ago. It needs to output to a completely different outlet - safety thing in case the first outlet hose has an issue. I did not connect the second pump to a high water alarm.
 
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Jul 27, 2011
5,009
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
I was told that a second bilge pump, mounted at a higher (water) level than the original one, should be mounted in the bilge and connected to a high water alarm. Has anyone done this?
My current Rule pump is 500gph. Would a secondary pump hose output to the first, or output to a completely different outlet?

Thanks
The consensus in this forum seems to be that a second bilge pump should have its own discharge hole; one not shared with the pump already installed. There is somewhat less consensus as to the viability of a second pump depending on what you wish, or expect, it to do, e.g., keep the boat from sinking or do something less demanding. The question of a "high water" alarm has come up, but again--to what function other than to alert you that the lower bilge pump is not keeping up with the ingress of water. My bilge alarm is set very near the level of my centrifugal (impeller) pump, and there is no other electric bilge pump. There is a manual (diaphragm) one operated from the cockpit that also drains the bilge. It's also been noted that the rated discharge capacities of the centrifugal pumps are very misleading in that they do not consider the height that water must be raised for discharge, which affects the actual discharge rate, significantly so. A pump(s) that cannot actually move 3000 gal/hr out of the boat (50 gal/min) probably cannot save it if there is significant ingress. For example, a 1.5-inch-diameter hole one ft below your water line will admit about 44 gal/min of seawater. So, if your two pumps together cannot match that through separate discharge ports, then you may end up hearing your alarm, but also finding little that you can do about it, in the worst cases, except to get the raft ready to deploy!!:yikes::yikes:
 
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May 24, 2004
7,131
CC 30 South Florida
Output of a 2nd pump should be to a completely different outlet as utilizing the same discharge hose will only result in recycling the water back into the bilge. The bilge pump is a convenience item as opposed to a critical or safety item. At best a second pump may protect the teak flooring from water damage in case the primary pump fails. Whether to add a high water alarm is up to you. If you want to alert neighboring docks at a marina it would have to be loud enough and with some safeguards to minimize false alarms. You have a pump rated for 500GPH but in real life you may not get much more than 100-200 GPH of true output. With two pumps working there will still be no adequate capacity to handle any significant water intrusion. I'm not against installing a 2nd bilge pump as the float switches have a high failure rate but I could do without the alarm. For safety there is no substitute for periodically inspecting all thru-hulls, valves, hoses and clamps. I personally prefer to shut off the head intake valve as I do not like to rely on the "O" rings, seals and gaskets which I cannot inspect and that includes anti-syphoning valves in a loop. My point is don't overestimate the capabilities of these electric bilge pumps and don't consider a backup pump to be that necessary.
 
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Oct 9, 2008
1,739
Bristol 29.9 Dana Point
Use your shower sump pump to double as a secondary.
It has its own discharge and electrical already.

My shower sump has a 1500 gph centrifugal, triggered by float switch.
The discharge line is 1" vs 1.5" for the bilge manual bilge pump, so it's not going to be 1500gph, but it shoots water out like a hose. It removes water about 4 times faster (I timed it with measured gallons deposited while running) than my Whale Gulper remote diaphragm bilge-sump pump, which is rated at 320 gph.

The shower sump lives below the cabin sole above the bilge deep sump. If water overwhelms the bilge pump, it would rise up and over/into the shower sump, triggering that pump.
Your shower sump is probably higher than the bilge. It might have a very small pump so you'd have to upgrade.

There is also a manual pump in the cockpit, connected to a 1.5" discharge hose. On mine the Whale electric bilge sump pump uses a 1" hose like the shower sump, but connects to the manual pump's 1.5" hose just before the transom outlet, so there's no backwash.
With vigorous pumping the manual pump will move large amounts, and can rapidly dewater a boat. ---provided the leak has been stopped.
 
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paulj

.
Mar 16, 2007
1,361
Catalina 310 Anacortes,Wa
"With vigorous pumping the manual pump will move large amounts, and can rapidly dewater a boat. ---provided the leak has been stopped."
I tried using the manual bilge pump many years ago trying to empty the bilge, which was full of water ( 2 inches approx over the floor boards)...due to grandson washing the boat dropped a running hose into the cockpit hatch. After the hose was shut off and removed from the boat. We used the manual bilge pump, which does move a lot of water, to remove the water from below......aaaaaafter 5 minutes using the pump handle.... my 75 year old arm fell off. I let the electric bilge pump.... pump out the rest of the water.
I now had a good idea about water in the boat and the existing water pumps and Me. Not you or anyone else just Me.

dbpaul :hook2:
 

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Jul 27, 2011
5,009
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
"With vigorous pumping the manual pump will move large amounts, and can rapidly dewater a boat. ---provided the leak has been stopped."
Well I didn't mention that above; but of course finding and stopping or slowing the leak, if possible to do so, should be one's first priority if there is time. To that end, I have aboard the wooden plug set, some spongy nerf-type balls that can be stuffed into various sized holes or cracks, a tube of that "mighty putty" that sets up and seals when wet, and a tarp of sunbrella which could be wrapped over a hole or crack in the hull from the outside of the boat, etc. I also have aboard a few bailing buckets and two shower sump pumps. The bow of the Bavaria is reinforced with Kevlar.
 
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paulj

.
Mar 16, 2007
1,361
Catalina 310 Anacortes,Wa
The consensus in this forum seems to be that a second bilge pump should have its own discharge hole; one not shared with the pump already installed. There is somewhat less consensus as to the viability of a second pump depending on what you wish, or expect, it to do, e.g., keep the boat from sinking or do something less demanding. The question of a "high water" alarm has come up, but again--to what function other than to alert you that the lower bilge pump is not keeping up with the ingress of water. My bilge alarm is set very near the level of my centrifugal (impeller) pump, and there is no other electric bilge pump. There is a manual (diaphragm) one operated from the cockpit that also drains the bilge. It's also been noted that the rated discharge capacities of the centrifugal pumps are very misleading in that they do not consider the height that water must be raised for discharge, which affects the actual discharge rate, significantly so. A pump(s) that cannot actually move 3000 gal/hr out of the boat (50 gal/min) probably cannot save it if there is significant ingress. For example, a 1.5-inch-diameter hole one ft below your water line will admit about 44 gal/min of seawater. So, if your two pumps together cannot match that through separate discharge ports, then you may end up hearing your alarm, but also finding little that you can do about it, in the worst cases, except to get the raft ready to deploy!!:yikes::yikes:

I followed this boat into Pender Harbour and took this picture and.... the water and was coming in over the transom also when I took the picture.
Pender Harbour had one emergency pump and had it working in minutes and the Canadian Coast Guard brought in another pump by fast boat in less then 1 hour.

This is the follow up
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/multi-million-dollar-yacht-runs-aground-on-sunshine-coast-1.3014099

Just another story.

dbpaulj
:hook2:
 

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