Second anchor question

Don S/V ILLusion · Mar 5, 2023

Not a fan of linking anchors. If something breaks, you lost everything including the boat possibly because you lack any backup.

Davidasailor26 · Mar 5, 2023

We’re considering making the same addition now, although we don’t have a second roller so I might just build a partition in our anchor locker to hold the old Delta. A second rode definitely gives the most flexibility and redundancy. At least some of the times you might need the backup anchor would mean needing a full backup rode.

flightlead404 · Mar 5, 2023

You need to be able to deploy your secondary completely independently from your primary. That means a second dedicated ride.

What I did was to supplement my 25kg rocna with a fortress fix-16 (danforth style) with mud palms. I wanted my secondary anchor to excel where the primary is weakest.

My rocna is on 200’ of G4 with 50’ of 8-plait spliced to the chain. There is no thimble and the windless can handle the rope/chain transition perfectly.

my fortress is on 50’ of chain with 150’ of 8-plait. Unfortunately there is a thimble. It doesn’t even go over the roller well and obviously won’t go through the windlass. I plan to remove the thimble and splice the rope directly to the chain.

I have not yet found a good way to stow the Fortress on the roller, it interferes with the stowing of the rocna and also my spinnaker. I plan to fabricate a bracket either on the bow pulpit or stern rail somewhere.

this season I have had several times where I anchored with both out, primarily in tight anchorages with strong reversing current. I have also had fouling of ground tackle on recovery that required two anchors, windlass, putting chain hooks and old sheets and rolling hitches and using primary winches etc. Such is anchoring in the Fl keys

I have learned that for my use
1. All chain rode is a requirement for my primary. I have made (just built a new one) a snubber (15’) of 3-strand spliced to a chain hook and a strop of dyneema (2.5’) spliced to a chain hook. This works very well.
2. For most effective use the secondary needs to have a stowage location where it can be out of the way, but quickly deployed. Off the bow or stern is fine, it you need the ability to deploy off the stern and then move the rode to the bow. Buried in a stern locker is not it
3. Secondary rode needs a decent amount of chain but 50’ is probably the max. It helps the light fortress set and so on, but is heavy and can be difficult to manhandle on deck
4. Don’t use thimbles. For this size rode they are large, heavy, easily snagged, jam on bow rollers and obviously prevent use of your windlass. Splice the rope to the chain.
5. 8 plait is much easier on the hands and to stow than 3 strand. I love it.
6. Stow the secondary rode in something like a heavy duty mesh bag (not a plastic tub), not attached to the anchor. Have a way (heavily greased shackle pin) to quickly and easily attach the two when you need it.

I had my secondary since I got the boat and until this year was questioning the $ I spent on it. Now I have half a dozen or more deployments I’m really glad I have it.

jssailem · Mar 5, 2023

with @flightlead404 on a two anchor two rode system.

I would suggest you rig the new Rocna in the primary position. Use the Delta as a secondary.
I am not a fan of Delta in our PacificNW waters. They are pretty but not good at resetting here.

Your waters and sea bed are different. I would be inclined to sell the Delta and acquire a Fortress. They are light weight but provide excellent holding results in the seabeds of the Chesapeake.

Just free opinions. Worth what they cost.

Richard19068 · Mar 5, 2023

I don't have any additional information on your setup but I would like to know where you got a new Rocna for 50%off.
Thanks

capta · Mar 5, 2023

From my experience, the Rocna should be your #1 anchor, with an all chain rode and a good snub line. My Rocna never failed me once in almost 7 years of sailing the Caribbean. I carried a #2 on the second anchor roller for a while, but eventually decided that all that extra weight that far forward for something I never used was silly, so I stowed it and it's rode in a handy cockpit locker.
If I were sailing in an area with lots of current, I might carry my #2 forward to Bahamian moor, or aft, if that is common where you sail, but since the Rocna, rigged as above, is such a superior anchor I never felt a need for a back up until the wind surpassed around 70 knots.

Benny17441 · Mar 5, 2023

It depends on your needs and the bottom holding in your sailing area. We quickly retired our Danforth to "lunch anchor duty" when our H320 with a tendency to sail at anchor broke hold and dragged one night. A 44lbs. Plow CQR resolved the problem.

Richard19068 · Mar 5, 2023

BroncoJohn said:
A friend works at a boating supply store.

NIce. Thanks.

Screen Saver · Mar 7, 2023

I agree with 99% of the above. Rocna should be your primary, the Delta which came as supplied by Hunter is nowhere near as good and long since gone. I replaced my aging Rocna early only due to rust creeping into the role bar and so I could relegate the old one to a second anchor. I also agree you do not want to have the second anchor attached to the same rod as your primary. The second one should be independent, then you have choice if you want to unshackle it and add it to the primary for some reason. It should as stated be quickly available. Some windlasses Gypsies will deal with two different size chains. Its not a bad idea to make sure the chain you are using is at least the largest that the existing Gypsie will take, and yes remove the Thimble

Ok one last point. Set both up the same, ie anchor, chain rope, no thimble rope end tied to something. Once your primary is out and you want to deploy the secondary, just winch (down) anything remaining on your primary back onto the anchor locker including the rope. The load on the primary should be on youre snubber. Undo the end of the rope where is tied to on the primary and winch it all the way through and off the windlass. Retie it before you forget or incase snubber breaks. Now pick up the end of the secondary rope and winch that through you windlass, including the secondary chain, release what ever is holding your secondary anchor and deploy it. This is much better than traditional snatch and grab chain and snubber grabs doing it ever 5 or so meters.

Good luck hopefully you never need it. Used mine once and then only because I stuffed up, after servicing windlass I never retied the rope, so going down, it all went over the side, very nicely thank you very much

ops.... Took a day to dive and retrieve it.

Will Gilmore · Mar 7, 2023

We lost our anchor in a storm in Mobile Bay. It parted at the roller, so two rodes.

-Will

Paul356 · Mar 7, 2023

I put my second anchor in brackets on the rail. I put a short chain on the rode, not 30'. I did put a full rode on it, and ran it through the bow fitting. I only carry the second anchor when cruising.

jssailem · Mar 30, 2023

Nice achievement.

Help me understand. You have decided to have 2 anchors to improve your boat safety. Yet you are using old line from the former anchor on the back up ( which I assume you will use the backup when the “s$$t starts hitting the fan”). If conditions are such that you need the extra holding power, why would you trust your boat and crew to old line.

I look on line/rode as a consumable. When it has been in service for a while it looses its strength to stress, UV, and marine environment. Most of us undersized the lines at the start. This makes them more vulnerable to overheating and over loading.

Just some thoughts.

flightlead404 · Mar 30, 2023

Screen Saver said:
I agree with 99% of the above. Rocna should be your primary, the Delta which came as supplied by Hunter is nowhere near as good and long since gone. I replaced my aging Rocna early only due to rust creeping into the role bar and so I could relegate the old one to a second anchor. I also agree you do not want to have the second anchor attached to the same rod as your primary. The second one should be independent, then you have choice if you want to unshackle it and add it to the primary for some reason. It should as stated be quickly available. Some windlasses Gypsies will deal with two different size chains. Its not a bad idea to make sure the chain you are using is at least the largest that the existing Gypsie will take, and yes remove the Thimble

Ok one last point. Set both up the same, ie anchor, chain rope, no thimble rope end tied to something. Once your primary is out and you want to deploy the secondary, just winch (down) anything remaining on your primary back onto the anchor locker including the rope. The load on the primary should be on youre snubber. Undo the end of the rope where is tied to on the primary and winch it all the way through and off the windlass. Retie it before you forget or incase snubber breaks. Now pick up the end of the secondary rope and winch that through you windlass, including the secondary chain, release what ever is holding your secondary anchor and deploy it. This is much better than traditional snatch and grab chain and snubber grabs doing it ever 5 or so meters.

Good luck hopefully you never need it. Used mine once and then only because I stuffed up, after servicing windlass I never retied the rope, so going down, it all went over the side, very nicely thank you very much ops.... Took a day to dive and retrieve it.

my recommendation would amend this slightly. Rather than relying on your sminer for more than just shock absorption I would make a short strop of dyneema Brummel spliced to a chain hook.

my snubber is 25’ of 1/2” three strand Dacron spliced to the suncor “flat” style chain hook which will not easily slip off. I unlaid about 2.5’ a couple feet from the hook end and relaid it with a length of bungee inside and stitched in place for extra spring

I then made about a 3’ strop from 5/8” amsteel blue one end back spliced the other spliced to a more traditional “bill style” chain hook. This actually has a higher breaking strength than the chain! I attach this to the chain and the cleat In the anchor locker (look at the back side of that cleat And make sure it has proper backing).I use the strop for all sorts of things such as ensuring there’s no strain on the windlass, securing the rode while I make adjustments or switch rodes on the windlass, securing the anchor when stowed, extra safety in case my snubber ever breaks/chafes etc

Screen Saver · Mar 30, 2023

Himmm Some typo above, or I'm losing it " siminer" I'm assuming snubber of course in, but in any event Im not a fan of dyneema anywhere in the anchor rod loop as its not forgiving no stretch and subject too easy to abrasion, etc. But I am definitely for having two different snubber configs for all sorts of reasons. In case my wife doesn't fasten the other end was how it started and the snubber went over the side...then I decided different sizes were good for different stretch tensions, also sometimes in a swelly anchorage I have used it to set the anchor at 90 degrees to the boat, when the chain has twisted on the snubber and you cant unhook it due to the weight, the second snubber can be clipped on just below the first to take the load off the twist and of course when I actually have used two anchors at the same time, and on occassions I have set it up like a bridle on a cat.

flightlead404 · Mar 31, 2023

Screen Saver said:
Himmm Some typo above, or I'm losing it " siminer" I'm assuming snubber of course in, but in any event Im not a fan of dyneema anywhere in the anchor rod loop as its not forgiving no stretch and subject too easy to abrasion, etc. But I am definitely for having two different snubber configs for all sorts of reasons. In case my wife doesn't fasten the other end was how it started and the snubber went over the side...then I decided different sizes were good for different stretch tensions, also sometimes in a swelly anchorage I have used it to set the anchor at 90 degrees to the boat, when the chain has twisted on the snubber and you cant unhook it due to the weight, the second snubber can be clipped on just below the first to take the load off the twist and of course when I actually have used two anchors at the same time, and on occassions I have set it up like a bridle on a cat.

My strop is not a snubber and dyneema was selected specifically for the purpose.

Second anchor question

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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