Seaward 32RK and 26RK Ocean-Going Capabilities

[Skipper J]

Hi,

Those of you with these boats, would you cross an ocean with them? The keel-lifting system looks like it would be great for exploring canals and rivers in Europe. Thank you.

 

[David in Sandusky]

I read this review of the 32 RK. Seaward 32RK Is a ‘Thin-Water-Cruiser’ - Blue Water Sailing

Not much to go on in the review. Some indicators of a blue water sailboat design are:
- Capsize screen/ratio is less than 2. This indicates that the boat may recover if it is rolled over by a storm wave.
- Comfort ratio is over 30. I could find neither of these ratios for the 32 RK on the web.
- Cockpit is not too large. This makes it easier to hold on or wedge in, and reduces weight on the stern if a wave fills the cockpit with water.
- Ample tankage for fuel and water.
- Ample storage for food and eguipment.
- Good bunks for sleeping under way. Low, near the middle of the boat for minimum movement.

Then there are equipment needs. Things like an autopilot, a water desalinator, long distance communication, a life raft, … the list goes on. You can acquire this equipment for a boat with a good design.

I recommend the book “Choosing a Cruising Sailboat“ by Roger Marshall for a good, understandable explanation of what makes a boat good for ocean cruises, or for other purposes.

 

[tfox2069]

I suppose the answer is sure, you could sail the 32RK across an ocean. But would you want to? @David in Sandusky posted some good considerations. If you look at the 32RK you'd need to add a LOT of fuel and a watermaker to cross an ocean. And SailboatData shows the Comfort Ratio to be almost half of what is "recommended", and the capsize formula to be outside the "acceptable" range, per the recommendations above. The boat only weighs 8,000 lbs, which is very light for a blue water boat (whatever that is) . I read recently that the typical cruising boat to the Caribbean is 20,000 lbs, with the full keel boats being considerably higher. You could always ship your 32RK to Europe and have fun!

 

[jssailem]

If you are a good navigator, competent in weather planning, have the needed provisions for your boat, have prepared a Seaworth vessel and crew, one might take most boats out onto the ocean.

It is when your seamanship skills are lacking and the boat preparation is weak that one learns their choice was poor.

 

[shemandr]

People have crossed the Atlantic in little more than a refrigerator but that doesn't mean I'd do it.
Ignoring the classification and numbers, the boat is too slow to avoid weather systems. There is hardly a time of year in which there is no risk of a storm in a three week voyage.
A major cause of voyage failures is loss of steering. I think the Seaward rudder is designed to pop up in shallow water. I would be uncomfortable with that. Fine for coastal cruising in Florida. Offshore? "?"
OP asked for those who own one of these boats. So ... I don't.

 

[David in Sandusky]

Here is the way I look at ratios about sailboats. The question I ask is what was the use for which the designer designed the boat. Every competent designer knows about The Capsize and Comfort ratios. So if they are designing a blue water cruiser, they will meet the minimums for that use. So the Capsize well above the recovery value of 2, and the Comfort well below 30 combine with the trailerability to tell me this is a coastal cruiser designed to trailer from an inland location to multiple sailing areas. Once there, its adjustable keel tells me it is a really good shallow water “gunkholer.” Lots of places in the North Chanel, Georgian Bay, Lake Erie, and Thousand Islands where it would really shine.
I agree it would be great for canals and rivers in Europe. If that’s where I wanted to sail it, and if trailering it in Europe would work (regulations?, trailer specs?, towing vehicle?), I would look at having it shipped over there by ocean carrier.

 

[Skipper J]

Good points by all, thank you. And I should not have said that I only wanted input from those who owned these boats. After I sent the message, I took a good look at the 32RK picture and thought 'why, why?' when I realized it was another open-transom design. Correct me if I'm wrong, but on many open transoms (this is partially open) it looks like a following sea can swamp it, or come close. Or let in unwanted visitors. Maybe a good nickname for them is Shark Chutes! My apologies to those who have and like them.

Good point too about the RK32's small rudder, and overall design intentions. It would be good for the Great Lakes. Being able to outrun ocean storms is definitely a plus. Any info on the best way to ship a boat to Europe is appreciated.

As an information-gathering exercise, I subscribed to the Pro edition of Predict Wind during their recent 50% off sale in order to watch global weather patterns to see when the Northern route becomes doable. Definitely not now, unless one likes 36-foot seas. Looks like from AIS data that the recreational sailors are on the southern route across the Atlantic now. It's fascinating stuff to explore.

FYI, the canals in England are narrower than the ones in France.

 

[jssailem]

You can read the adventures of one of our own members who took off from the Chesapeake bay May 2023. Sailed across the North Atlantic to Portugal. Then on Dec 02 started on his way back to the Caribbean. Eventually he will be back in the Chesapeake Bay.

His trip is described here.

Trip to Europe (and back) begins

As many of you know, I'm heading off to sail to Europe this year. I'll try to post updates with photos as time permits. Today was the splash, boat is now in the water after a fair amount of work was done. All new thru hulls: several removed - I went from 8 thru hulls to 5. The kitchen sink thru...

forums.sailboatowners.com

 

[Tedd]

...this is a coastal cruiser designed to trailer from an inland location to multiple sailing areas. Once there, its adjustable keel tells me it is a really good shallow water “gunkholer.”

Yep. More specifically, the designer said his target was the Florida-Bahamas area, hence the lifting keel. Trailerability was more of a side benefit. The goal was to have the best possible coastal cruiser that could operate in the very shallow Bahamas waters.

 

[dlochner]

Recently Sailing Zinger rescued 3 people aboard a Bavaria 44 that had been dismasted in the middle of the Pacific Ocean off the beaten path. They have posted several videos about the rescue, with the last video the most relevant to this discussion. In it the rigging of a Bavaria Ocean 44 and a Bavaria 44 (the one that was dismasted) were compared.

The take home story is all the ratios, capsize ratio, comfort ration, etc don't mean squat if the boat is not designed and built for off shore sailing. As @Tedd points out, the Seawards are not designed for offshore work. The can be sailed to the Bahamas because you can pick a weather window to get across the Gulf Stream and the trip can be as short as 50 miles.

If exploring the canals of Europe are the goal, it might be best to buy a canal boat in Europe and sell when you're done.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Recently Sailing Zinger rescued 3 people aboard a Bavaria 44 that had been dismasted in the middle of the Pacific Ocean off the beaten path. They have posted several videos about the rescue, with the last video the most relevant to this discussion. In it the rigging of a Bavaria Ocean 44 and a Bavaria 44 (the one that was dismasted) were compared.

The take home story is all the ratios, capsize ratio, comfort ration, etc don't mean squat if the boat is not designed and built for off shore sailing. As @Tedd points out, the Seawards are not designed for offshore work. The can be sailed to the Bahamas because you can pick a weather window to get across the Gulf Stream and the trip can be as short as 50 miles.

If exploring the canals of Europe are the goal, it might be best to buy a canal boat in Europe and sell when you're done.

Yes. Some good points about rigging are made. But some additional insight offered here, perhaps. The Bavaria 38 Ocean, for example, was a CC production model during similar years (ca. 1997-2001) as the Bavaria Exclusives were produced, as with my 38E. (But there were Ocean model sizes other than the 38, the prettiest being the Bavaria 42 Ocean.) We saw the Bavaria 38 Ocean, 38 Holiday, and 38 Exclusive. All three models, however, are basically the same hull and fractional rigging.

The toggles on my 38E are as “beefy” as the ones shown in the YouTube for the Bavaria Ocean in comparison with those of the Bavaria 44. The author makes the point that the Bavaria Ocean is built for sea due to its stronger rigging whereas the Bavaria 44 not so much, evidently, due to its lighter toggles that failed and brought down the mast. Well, if the Ocean is designed and built to be out in the midst of a Pacific crossing, etc., then so would be the Exclusive by analogy. Same hull, displacement, and rigging, etc. But I’ve never seen it as a high seas, passage-making sailboat for extended ocean sailing (versus coastal). It has shortcomings elsewhere.

Basically, it’s not a matter here of what a model might have been designed (theoretically) to do, but when it was built for that function, IMHO. Likely, to keep the cost down the Bavaria 44 is simply not stoutly built relative to the models of the late 1990’s. We’ve seen this everywhere from boats and American autos to appliances and accessories, to homes, etc., it seems. The best point made is to maintain and upgrade your rigging for the task set upon!

 

[sesmith]

Late to the party, but if the o.p. is still here, I owned a Seaward 25 previously. We also looked at 32's when we were looking at larger boats, eventually buying a Catalina 350. My opinion is that neither the 26 or the 32 have strong enough rigs to make them a good boat for ocean crossings. Head to the Bahamas? Sure.

I can tell you that the rig on my Catalina 350 is way more substantial than the ones on the Seawards, and I wouldn't take our 350 across an ocean. I wouldn't take me across an ocean either (not my thing). We loved our seaward, but used it as designed, lake sailing and coastal cruising. I wouldn't begin to have taken it out in some of the conditions we've sailed up on the Great Lakes in our bigger boat.

 

[Skipper J]

Ok, thank you sesmith and all who have replied. Don't want to risk having a rig that isn't designed for it in waters that are too rough.
Jsailem, I'll read that thread about the sailor taking the Northern route in its entirety soon to see if that's something in the cards. Iceland is dumbfoundingly beautiful and I'd like to visit again, this time by sea, if possible.