Seattle Sailing Tourboat Collision

Taylor · Sep 15, 2008

Fault?!

I want to be the first to point out - the sails appear to have been up on Neptune's Car. I think that pretty much cinches it from a right of way standpoint.

John New · Sep 15, 2008

Unless...

Unless, of course, she had her sails up but was also under power. In that case, I beleive she's a motor vessel as well.

Stu Jackson · Sep 15, 2008

Uhm, John, even if that were the case,

the sailboat was on the starboard side of the powerboat.

Seattle Scott · Sep 15, 2008

In a crossing collision situation, the stand on boat

is going to have port side damage, ie the boat on the right/starboard/stand on is going to be stuck on the port side. My mental rule is when in doubt, show my port side.

r.w.landau · Sep 15, 2008

The problem with this is that the Col Regs are written to avoid collisions.

There is stand on and give way vessel, but there is no excuse for a collision.
That is basic Col Reg. Stand on or not, it was also the sailboats job to avoid the collision. It is a shame that the loser was the sail boat. The sailboat was the larger and probably the pricer of the two vessels.
Ok, I did not state any of the Colo Regs so that this can be battled out by some digging into the regs and friendly discussion.
r.w.landau

John Nantz · Sep 15, 2008

Slide Show News Pictures

Wind was very lite today.

Another consideration is a boat traveling the channel will have stand-on privileges. There is a main channel which travels up and down Puget Sound; however, the tour sailboat is normally in Elliot Bay which is outside the channel, or shipping lanes.

The link is to the local KIRO TV news web site: http://www.kirotv.com/slideshow/news/17480313/detail.html

Seemed to me the new this evening said something about the "crew" (don't know if this included paying passengers) and the captain of the power boat were going to be tested for alcohol. And the owner of the sailboat said he just spent something like ?$50 or 70,000? on his boat.

Brian D · Sep 15, 2008

The media has already placed blame...

"Three people were injured when a 70-foot charter sailboat collided with a 22-foot motor boat about a mile off of Alki Point."

This is so obvious who's fault it will be... the sailboat! Note that the "... sailboat collided with a 22-foot motor boat". Do these journalist go to school?

The proper sentence should read "Three people were injured when a 70-foot charter sailboat and a 22-foot motor boat collided about a mile off of Alki Point."

Paul Brinkley · Sep 16, 2008

Brian D. - It seems to me far too often when I watch news..

...particularly TV news, that while many journalists may have gone to school and earned journalism degrees, their curricula did not cover such topics as "truthfulness", "fair play", "impartiality", "identification/separation of fact and opinion", or "keeping personal bias out of news reporting". Or perhaps the students had hangovers on those days... I know it would not be fair to paint all news people with this brush, because there are some good ones out there who try, and usually succeed, in presenting the news factually and without bias. It just seems like they are too often in the minority. I have no problem with editorial commentary for or against a subject- just please don't try to pass it off as news reporting. Label it for what is is and keep news and editorials separate. I don't even like to see viewpoints I agree with passed off as news. My other major beef with news people is that sometimes their reporting shows 1. their ignorance of the topic, and worse, 2. their unwillingness to take time to learn about it so that they could properly report on it (probably due to the rush to make a deadline). There have been several threads on boat collisions lately, and if you have read all of the news links in them, you will have seen about all of these problems show up.

Dang! Let me get off the *box. Phil, if you want to bounce this to The Sails Call, go ahead. I just got carried away ;D -Paul

larry w · Sep 16, 2008

Brian pretty much nailed it.

Seems clear who's at fault here. Does this remind anyone of another case that is currently in the courts?

John Nantz · Sep 16, 2008

The Vultures, er, news media, are at it!

One of the TV news programs said the sailboat was 42-feet. Actually, it's 70 feet.

Link to West Seattle Blog: http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=10504
This is an interesting blog. The last picture links to a video (short, only a few seconds).

The blogger commentary is interesting.

Especially interesting was the comment about locating the boats in the accident. They saw all the news media helicopters (like vultures) so that had to be them.

Link to Washington Attorney Blog: http://www.washingtoninjuryattorneyblog.com/2008/09/puget_sound_boating_accident_i.html
(not very interesting, except for the fact it's getting posted. Any lawyer want work???)

Just Google "sailboat collision seattle" and select news for more.

Bob S · Sep 16, 2008

Speed

I'd venture to say the power boat was going at a pretty good clip to put a hole that big.

John Nantz · Sep 16, 2008

Things may be a little bit "muddy"

You're right, Guy, there may be more to this.

In one interview with the owner of the sailboat, he said that he doesn't want to sue, he just wants his boat back in business again.

Reading between the lines it may be that the sailboat as a legal stand-on vessel might not be totally black and white.

John Nantz · Sep 16, 2008

The Vultures, er, lawyers, are at it!

The powerboat was apparently traveling at high speed.

Here is a link to another lawyer/attorney web site:

http://tacoma.injuryboard.com/miscellaneous/lets-go-sailing-passengers-injuredrights-and-remedies-on-the-water.aspx?googleid=247534

Of course, the "42 foot sailboat" they're referring to is actually the 70 foot "Neptune's Car".

I was wondering why the pictures all were showing the jib deployed and a closeup of one picture showed the roller furler set to the side and apparently lashed on the starboard toerail. This is at least a four-spreader rig and if it came down it could really cause a mess.

Paul J. Rusyniak · Sep 16, 2008

GuyH

Are you suggesting that if the stand-on sailboat made some change in her course/speed to comply with the "first directive" - don't hit or be hit by anone - and the power boat hit her anyway that she could also be at fault?

This has come up so many times on this and other sites, but I don't ever remember seeing a definitive answer.

My purpose is not to be argumentative - i'm just trying to learn.

paul

John New · Sep 16, 2008

Perhaps...

Brian wrote:
"Three people were injured when a 70-foot charter sailboat collided with a 22-foot motor boat about a mile off of Alki Point."
"This is so obvious who's fault it will be... the sailboat! Note that the "... sailboat collided with a 22-foot motor boat". Do these journalist go to school?"

Well, perhaps. On the other hand, it might just be poor writing (by the reporter, that is). Lot of that going around

Seattle Scott · Sep 16, 2008

Question regarding exceptions

John Nantz wrote: "Another consideration is a boat traveling the channel will have stand-on privileges. There is a main channel which travels up and down Puget Sound; however, the tour sailboat is normally - but maybe not always - in Elliot Bay which is outside the channel, or shipping lanes."

My understanding is that these shipping lanes are not channels. My understanding of a channel is that if you go outside of the channel you run aground, so your ability to manuver is limited by the channel. the shipping lanes in Puget Sound are in open water, there is deep water a mile or more outside the shipping lanes. When navigating in the shipping lanes I treat them as open water with respect to other pleasure craft, meaning if I am north bound in the north bound lane and another boat is crossing from right to left ( east to west), and we are both under power, I give way. If we are both sailing on same tack and I am leward, I stand on, regardess of the shipping lanes. If there is a ship in the lanes, I get out of the way.

Ross · Sep 16, 2008

Those small power boats are as agile as a cat.

He simply shouldn't have allowed himself to get that close.

Paul J. Rusyniak · Sep 17, 2008

GuyH

"I would guess the final decision would be that both captains end up buying their lawyer a new car.... "

Judging from the number of vultures sending out electronic "news" of this tragedy, yours is a well-educated guess!!!

Paul