If they hit something hard enough to rip off the keel, how is the rudder still there?
Maybe keel bolt failure?
Maybe keel bolt failure?
Search called off for missing yacht
- Thread starter Brian D
- Start date
Could have hit a submerged shipping container. Some of them lurk just under the surface of the waves...
Damn scary stuff.
Damn scary stuff.
A very concerning issue is that an epirb or plb signal was detected yet they were not found. The air search of the area did not turn up the raft nor did they see the wreck. IMHO the air search could have missed a raft if it missed the wreck.
The wreck was found by a container ship and photographed. That's how we know the keel came off. The Coast Guard search "saturated the area". The CG would have calculated a raft's drift quite accurately from the wreck. Not many hours had elapsed.
Very little of the capsized boat remained above the water (they were taking on water before the capsize). So it seems highly likely that they were not able to deploy the raft after the boat capsized. The water was quite cold so they could not have survived long without a raft. It seems possible that the brief PLB signals came from crew members in the water as they had an EPIRB on the boat that was never activated. This is obviously conjecture but fits the facts as we know them.
Truly tragic. This was an expert crew on a fairly new and very well maintained production boat (actively raced). They did not report any collision when they started taking on water.
The question is how could her keel come off in open water ?
Very little of the capsized boat remained above the water (they were taking on water before the capsize). So it seems highly likely that they were not able to deploy the raft after the boat capsized. The water was quite cold so they could not have survived long without a raft. It seems possible that the brief PLB signals came from crew members in the water as they had an EPIRB on the boat that was never activated. This is obviously conjecture but fits the facts as we know them.
Truly tragic. This was an expert crew on a fairly new and very well maintained production boat (actively raced). They did not report any collision when they started taking on water.
The question is how could her keel come off in open water ?
How can a keel come off?
-hit submerged object
-the boat may have had a prior grounding and damage that wasn't repaired properly (that was the mechanism a few yrs ago on that college owned racing yacht that lost keel, inverted and caused crew drowning)
-either design flaw or building flaw. (Not likely with this proven design)
-hit submerged object
-the boat may have had a prior grounding and damage that wasn't repaired properly (that was the mechanism a few yrs ago on that college owned racing yacht that lost keel, inverted and caused crew drowning)
-either design flaw or building flaw. (Not likely with this proven design)
I have an old (1979) Hunter and I always worry that age and corrosion will eventually lead to keel bolt failure...but I'd never suspect it on a newer boat such as the one that was lost. Very tragic.
My thought is that the keel started to go, the boat took on water to the point that they could not detect that it was from the keel, and then the keel suddenly let go with the sails up and they turned-turtle before they could get the life-raft and the EPIRB out. The cold water did the rest.
My thought is that the keel started to go, the boat took on water to the point that they could not detect that it was from the keel, and then the keel suddenly let go with the sails up and they turned-turtle before they could get the life-raft and the EPIRB out. The cold water did the rest.
Apparently, the USCG search has resumed for the crew of Cheeki Rafiki.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-calling-U-S-Coast-Guard-resume-search.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-calling-U-S-Coast-Guard-resume-search.html
Very sad, I am no structural engineer but the BBC linked photo makes it look like the keel came off sideways?! How is that even possible?
Skin Peeled?
To me, it looks like the keel just tore off the top skin and some of the core when it went. That's assuming it's a cored hull, which sounds right to me. Odd the ports were broken. Of course, the keel could have been attached by the skin and banged away at them a while, or the rig or who knows. What ever happened, it was sudden. RIP
Bene's are solid hulls cored decks, 15 ft waves an 50knt winds don't make sense, waves should be bigger than that.
Possible - weak keel design
How is it possible that the keel came off?
The part where the hull skin is ripped off is the only place where there could have been some keel bolts that were not on centerline and that is a very small area.
For that size boat, and for that size keel, I'd proffer that there should have been more keel bolts nearer the outer edge of the keel to resist the moment arm from the loads on the keel. The way the bolt pattern is designed the bolts would have had to been really, really torqued up to prevent sideways (like a hinge, for example) keel movement.
The other thing interesting in the picture is the brownish area around the aft keel bolt hole. Could this be from rust? Or maybe an oil stain because the hole wasn't totally sealed and oily bilgewater got down in the bolt hole?
One weak link in some sailboat designs is the rudder system but when they fail we often hear about it. With keel failures it becomes catastrophic.
How is it possible that the keel came off?
The BBC picture of the boat hull awash shows two bolt holes in the forward part of the keel and one in the aft part of the keel - all along the centerline of the keel. There is no keel stub on the hull and the keel is quite narrow.
The part where the hull skin is ripped off is the only place where there could have been some keel bolts that were not on centerline and that is a very small area.
For that size boat, and for that size keel, I'd proffer that there should have been more keel bolts nearer the outer edge of the keel to resist the moment arm from the loads on the keel. The way the bolt pattern is designed the bolts would have had to been really, really torqued up to prevent sideways (like a hinge, for example) keel movement.
The other thing interesting in the picture is the brownish area around the aft keel bolt hole. Could this be from rust? Or maybe an oil stain because the hole wasn't totally sealed and oily bilgewater got down in the bolt hole?
One weak link in some sailboat designs is the rudder system but when they fail we often hear about it. With keel failures it becomes catastrophic.
It sure looks like exposed core in the image but could also be the hull liner. Was just underneath a First 36.7 yesterday and the keel attachment point is very narrow. I doubt they could even fit two rows of bolts....
The high res photo shows a LOT broken rusted rear bolt and two broken front bolts with the middle section failing
It would be interesting to see how many bolts are there But it does not look like many
It might have been that the boat was hard on the starboard tack; one or more bolts gave way, and the keel peeled/ripped away part of the port side hull as it fell off.
Just to let all know, there was a news blip yesterday that upon inspection, the life raft was never deployed. The keel was gone.
I have to assume the boat turtled quickly, probably throwing the deck crew overboard. Crew members below maybe had the chance to swim out. I also assume sails were up causing the roll to happen suddenly.
Then you have crew members maybe getting tangled up with the sails, rigging, lines etc. all now in the water. And, all this happened under the cover of darkness. What a waste of lives.
Reminds me of the Bounty folly.
There was a recent thread of someone asking to take a C27 to Hawaii. I passed on my thoughts as I thought this was not safe, as over the years, I recall many experienced/inexperienced and/or ill- equipped boats setting out that took lives. This is not why we go to sea.
I said a prayer for them......
CR
I have to assume the boat turtled quickly, probably throwing the deck crew overboard. Crew members below maybe had the chance to swim out. I also assume sails were up causing the roll to happen suddenly.
Then you have crew members maybe getting tangled up with the sails, rigging, lines etc. all now in the water. And, all this happened under the cover of darkness. What a waste of lives.
Reminds me of the Bounty folly.
There was a recent thread of someone asking to take a C27 to Hawaii. I passed on my thoughts as I thought this was not safe, as over the years, I recall many experienced/inexperienced and/or ill- equipped boats setting out that took lives. This is not why we go to sea.
I said a prayer for them......
CR
Thinking about my last post &loss of life, I would like also like to impart this:
In the past ten years, I have personally saved five people from dying and/or drowning in the Gulf of Mexico.
The first time were two neophyte divers that had trailered their 26 foot power boat from Orlando. They were beginner divers, yet finding out later they spoke little English. They left a friend onboard while they went below. It was his first time on a boat offshore. During their spearfishing dive, the anchor rode broke. It was a spirited January day with 4 foot seas & water temps hovering around 60°. It was late afternoon around 4:30PM.
We were on my friend's fishing boat 25 miles out from John's Pass. We were almost done fishing, a great catch & the FM radio was putting out some great tunes. I thought I heard a faint sound but unsure, I asked Tom to turn down the radio. Then another faint sound. I grabbed the binoculars & panned to my starboard side area sweeping.
An eighth mile off, I spotted two divers in the 4 foot swells waving their spearguns. I couldn't believe it, two divers with no other boat in sight. We got over to them quickly only to find they were half frozen near hyperthermia. It took us abit to get them onboard covering them in blankets & rubbing legs-n-arms to rekindle blood flow.
There was a language gap, but we understood some of their Spanish & they understood some of our English. From this, there was the missing boat somewhere with their friend aboard. Again out came the binoculars. Their boat had drifted four miles south from the 15kt. winds & 4 foot waves. We got them back to their boat around 5:30pm as the sun was setting. We had them follow us back to safe harbor, as it was dark by the time we got back.
What would have happened had I not heard that faint sound? The other guy left on the boat didn't know even know to operate a VHF. It was shear luck that saved those unprepared neophyte divers 25 miles offshore.
The other three people almost drowned close to the beach outside the swim markers in 15 foot of water. Did you know that in many cases, a person drowning goes into a stage from exhaustion that they become silent not able to scream their distress, hence not seen as being in distress?
Two of these almost-victims were drunk off their ass. The third was a tourist from Idaho that had only previously swam in lakes, not two foot seas with a rip current.
None of these incidents made the 11:00 news, thank God. I know this is a long post, but I wanted to impart the dangers of boating/swimming in water that is deep enough & cold enough to kill you. Please be safe out there & always prepared for the worst case scenarios with experience & safety a first.
CR
In the past ten years, I have personally saved five people from dying and/or drowning in the Gulf of Mexico.
The first time were two neophyte divers that had trailered their 26 foot power boat from Orlando. They were beginner divers, yet finding out later they spoke little English. They left a friend onboard while they went below. It was his first time on a boat offshore. During their spearfishing dive, the anchor rode broke. It was a spirited January day with 4 foot seas & water temps hovering around 60°. It was late afternoon around 4:30PM.
We were on my friend's fishing boat 25 miles out from John's Pass. We were almost done fishing, a great catch & the FM radio was putting out some great tunes. I thought I heard a faint sound but unsure, I asked Tom to turn down the radio. Then another faint sound. I grabbed the binoculars & panned to my starboard side area sweeping.
An eighth mile off, I spotted two divers in the 4 foot swells waving their spearguns. I couldn't believe it, two divers with no other boat in sight. We got over to them quickly only to find they were half frozen near hyperthermia. It took us abit to get them onboard covering them in blankets & rubbing legs-n-arms to rekindle blood flow.
There was a language gap, but we understood some of their Spanish & they understood some of our English. From this, there was the missing boat somewhere with their friend aboard. Again out came the binoculars. Their boat had drifted four miles south from the 15kt. winds & 4 foot waves. We got them back to their boat around 5:30pm as the sun was setting. We had them follow us back to safe harbor, as it was dark by the time we got back.
What would have happened had I not heard that faint sound? The other guy left on the boat didn't know even know to operate a VHF. It was shear luck that saved those unprepared neophyte divers 25 miles offshore.
The other three people almost drowned close to the beach outside the swim markers in 15 foot of water. Did you know that in many cases, a person drowning goes into a stage from exhaustion that they become silent not able to scream their distress, hence not seen as being in distress?
Two of these almost-victims were drunk off their ass. The third was a tourist from Idaho that had only previously swam in lakes, not two foot seas with a rip current.
None of these incidents made the 11:00 news, thank God. I know this is a long post, but I wanted to impart the dangers of boating/swimming in water that is deep enough & cold enough to kill you. Please be safe out there & always prepared for the worst case scenarios with experience & safety a first.
CR
Yacht found with liferaft still attached to deck...no sign of crew.
http://sailinganarchy.com/2014/05/24/post-mortem/
http://sailinganarchy.com/2014/05/24/post-mortem/
