Seamanship - Docking under sail
- Thread starter Will Gilmore
- Start date
I do it sometimes, even solo. Depends on the wind conditions and I always have my paddle handy....
Jon, just about everyone can sail into a dock. The point here is to not sail into a dock but to dock under sail. Big difference. And yeah, a lot of 10yo do sail into the docks.
I've been trying to master that skill for years, with marginal success. Last summer we pulled into a gas dock surrounded by million dollar boats in an old beat up Pearson 30 on a delivery. I was on the foredeck with the bow line, reached over and wham, had cleated, just like I knew what I was doing. The dockhand was not happy as it cut out his tip.
The dock hand gets tips? Man! I missed out when I was a marina rat as a ten year old. I did, however, sail into my share of docksThe dockhand was not happy as it cut out his tip.
- Will (Dragonfly)
Oh in this marina, they get tips. The marina was in Cape May with manicured lawns, and sport fishermen who daily fuel bill was higher than the value of the boat we were on. We were definitely out of place and I think they were happy to see us gone. After buying 10 gallons of gas.The dock hand gets tips? Man! I missed out when I was a marina rat as a ten year old. I did, however, sail into my share of docks
- Will (Dragonfly)
I sail into the docks all the time. With this boat.
But we don't have all that much space in our harbor to practice docking with our yawl. I could probably do it, but I never have.
Above about 26', you'll take some risk unless conditions are perfect(wind and tidal current), and no unseen boats cause problems by changing the game, once you're committed. Truth is, it can be a little tricky under power.
But we don't have all that much space in our harbor to practice docking with our yawl. I could probably do it, but I never have.
Above about 26', you'll take some risk unless conditions are perfect(wind and tidal current), and no unseen boats cause problems by changing the game, once you're committed. Truth is, it can be a little tricky under power.
That boat in the video is the ASA First22, a collaboration between ASA and Beneteau to make modern, comfortable, safe and fast training keelboat for the 21st century. Based on the well-loved First 210, everything about it reflects current thinking in sailboat design. People are also buying them as day sailors.
[QUOTE="victorhoisington, post: 1450620, member: 41735"we had no way to control forward and reverse
Victor[/QUOTE]
Not to be rude, but you obviously were not alone, right? Was there no way at all someone could have moved the shifter at the captain's command,even if they had to be head down through a hatch for the few minutes a docking would have taken? It's not like the engine would be running at much over idle while docking, so it would be possible for the "manual" shifter to hear the commands. On larger boats I've had up to 3 people in a chain repeating the commands to the person shifting, and it has worked flawlessly. For this, nothing beats a set of Vice Grips.
Victor[/QUOTE]
Not to be rude, but you obviously were not alone, right? Was there no way at all someone could have moved the shifter at the captain's command,even if they had to be head down through a hatch for the few minutes a docking would have taken? It's not like the engine would be running at much over idle while docking, so it would be possible for the "manual" shifter to hear the commands. On larger boats I've had up to 3 people in a chain repeating the commands to the person shifting, and it has worked flawlessly. For this, nothing beats a set of Vice Grips.
One of my secrets for docking under sail, especially in adverse conditions, is to use an anchor as a brake. You don't want the anchor to set, so you only let out enough scope to drag the anchor along the bottom, at the appropriate time.
This works best with chain, but even with a line rode, it can be very helpful. At least you don't have to worry about wrapping it in your prop!
This works best with chain, but even with a line rode, it can be very helpful. At least you don't have to worry about wrapping it in your prop!
You are correct we Could have handled it with the engine in a manual fashion but, with a difficult access to the shift linkage (on someone else's boat), we actually felt more in control and better prepared for a docking under sail than some cobbled together solution. As mentioned, we were in the marina fairway( no waves to deal with), steady breeze and no traffic, under sail we knew exactly what was going to happen, trying to play the shifter - chain of command option might have worked but any miscommunication or slowness in a response could have caused issues. By doing what we knew and felt in command over with clearly assigned jobs, we had sails up and if needed could bail out to try again. Its always a choice, not always between good or perfect choice, you have to weigh the options, know you comfort levels and then decide on a plan. In our case, sailing was the best plan and not only did we execute perfectly (you get lucky once) but, it was fun to execute, parade off the bad boat across the dock to the new boat and be gone before most of the spectators had picked their jaws up off the dock.
What an interesting thought. Helps downwind docking. But... what if one were to deploy a sea drogue just as one is starting their turn into the slip when the wind is from astern? Just wondering
Would it open in time? Any current could wrap it around a piling, I'd think.
Would there be enough distance traveled and enough speed to open and benefit from the drogue? Could it get tangled or run over?
I just read that some marinas have rules against docking under sail. I was looking for videos of captains making mistakes docking under sail but only found videos of sailors making mistakes while docking under power. Maybe it should be against the rules to dock under power.
I did find this video of someone wreaking havoc in anchorage while under full sail.
-Will (Dragonfly)
Don’t see many 10 year olds sailing a big boat into a slip single handed. Sailing onto a dock—no problem. Sailing into a slip is a lot different scenario. Did it once successfully with one crew & help from the finger pier. Wouldn’t want to try singlehanded. Once you clear the first pilling, there is no plan B. You are committed at that point and had better catch that aft spring line. If you miss, there’s going to be some glass to repair.
Is that what you call those? I have been calling them by the wrong word for all these years.I really appreciate the window screen of this video.
-Will (Dragonfly)
technique, yeah baby. grew up at a sailing yacht club where most of the sail boats did not have engines. sailed in and out of slips every sail. it can be done. it's easy, if that's what you know. there are those that struggle with an engine. bad technique again. to all you nay sayers, just cause you ain't seen it dose not mean it's hard to do. 6,000 YEARS OF SAILING, engines only been helping for the last 100 ish. yeah, 10 year olds can do it
we had a large dragon race fleet at the club. dad had a star, then a US one design. 38' sailed in and out. plus the ten year olds always in the way
we had a large dragon race fleet at the club. dad had a star, then a US one design. 38' sailed in and out. plus the ten year olds always in the way
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The Admiral and I sailed our 16 foot with no kicker for 2 years. Some of my prettiest landings had no witnesses.
I know I've told this story a bunch of times and maybe once or twice here. But it's still a good example. We had just launched our 21 footer and were going to motor downwind to a slip on starboard. Just as we cleared the boat ramp, the outboard died. So now we are drifting downwind under bare poles towards our assigned slip. The outboard refuses to keep running so we make the best shot at our slip. Just as we get to the slip, I throw the helm hard over and turn 90° to starboard. That huge rudder creates a lot of drag in that position so we basically stop dead in the slip and drift up against the finger pier like we do it all the time. Hand off dock lines to the waiting "helpers" and we done.
Getting a chance to really look at the outboard, I find out that fuel transfer usually works best if BOTH ends of the hose are attached. We were hooked up to the motor but not the fuel tank.
I know I've told this story a bunch of times and maybe once or twice here. But it's still a good example. We had just launched our 21 footer and were going to motor downwind to a slip on starboard. Just as we cleared the boat ramp, the outboard died. So now we are drifting downwind under bare poles towards our assigned slip. The outboard refuses to keep running so we make the best shot at our slip. Just as we get to the slip, I throw the helm hard over and turn 90° to starboard. That huge rudder creates a lot of drag in that position so we basically stop dead in the slip and drift up against the finger pier like we do it all the time. Hand off dock lines to the waiting "helpers" and we done.
Getting a chance to really look at the outboard, I find out that fuel transfer usually works best if BOTH ends of the hose are attached. We were hooked up to the motor but not the fuel tank.
after ww2 we stole what is now called the Eagle, coast guard ship. then hired the previous, german first mate, to captain it as no one in this country knew how to sail the thing. after going on a long summer cruise to europe. upon returning to new london the captain called harbor control and told them to have all the bridges up and ready cause he was sailing the ship up to it's dock. he told them to warn the subs of his arrival as well.
harbor control asked if the engine was broken, did they want a tug or two. NO, the captain replied. the engine work fine. he needed no tugs. he said that he was hired to train the crew to sail the boat, not motor the boat, and that is what he did.
so in they sailed. up the river through the bridge (s). then nearing the dock, on one command, all sails were furled. the eagle glided abreast their dock, dropped the port bow anchor. spun and pivoted a 180 degree turn. eased up to the dock.
master's of sail. old school
my father's bud, told the story. he worked in a shipyard there and got to watch the whole thing
harbor control asked if the engine was broken, did they want a tug or two. NO, the captain replied. the engine work fine. he needed no tugs. he said that he was hired to train the crew to sail the boat, not motor the boat, and that is what he did.
so in they sailed. up the river through the bridge (s). then nearing the dock, on one command, all sails were furled. the eagle glided abreast their dock, dropped the port bow anchor. spun and pivoted a 180 degree turn. eased up to the dock.
master's of sail. old school
my father's bud, told the story. he worked in a shipyard there and got to watch the whole thing