SeaLand San-X

[meuritt]

New to me boat, system has a last service date of 1999. I've tried to google and can only find reference to the chemical used, I have operator manual for other systems on board, but not this. Previous owner is clueless. The surveyor said he thought the system was no longer legal, but probably grandfathered. We sail San Francisco Bay.

Today I traced all the hoses and figured out where things go, from fresh water into the Lavac head to used water overboard, no treatment or to the San-X, then through another sealand pump over board. The system has two motors, a small one that appears to pump the chemical in, it is not attached to the device, other than by the small hose, and a larger one, mounted just above the 1.25 (maybe 1.5) discharge. The size of the discharge fitting tells me that something is making big pieces smaller.

What I'd like to know is:

Is this system still legal, or is it grandfathered?

The large motor, is it a macerator pump, does it move the contents along, or are they sucked out by the larger remote pump?

The holding tank that the San-x is attached to, or is it the San-x, is a wedge shape affair, less than ten gallon, probably closer to 5. We are tied up in a low flow marina, so even a ElectroSan device is not welcome there. When the boat was built, 1972, the head was a simple overboard discharge, and all the sinks and shower pan drained into a holding tank for pumping overboard. That tank is about 40 gallons.

Today I completed conversion of the sinks and shower into a sump system that pumps overboard, and Friday we start rerouting plumbing so we have the option of treated water into the holding tank. This makes a lot of sense for our situation.

It also makes some sense, especially if the motor on the MSD is not a macerator pump, to just eliminate the San-x device and pump untreated into the tank for pump out at the neighboring facility.

It all depends on finding out what that motor does, it is just not feasible to route hose from the overboard pump around to the holding tank, no room.

Thanks for your help

Mike Euritt
San Rafael, CA
Banjer 37

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I don't think you've got the plumbing exactly right

'Cuz this doesn't make sense: "Today I traced all the hoses and figured out where things go, from fresh water into the Lavac head to used water overboard, no treatment or to the San-X, then through another sealand pump over board."

For one thing, if you actually have a Lavac toilet, it's designed to use sea water...and therefore should NOT be connected to the fresh water system. But there are toilets designed to use pressurize fresh water, so we need to sort out what you have and/or how it should be plumbed.

I have have NO idea what you mean by "Lavac head to used water overboard, no treatment or to the San-X, then through another sealand pump over board." Either the toilet flushes directly overboard or it goes into the tank or treatment device...and if it goes overboard, how does the SeaLand pump figure into it?

So I don't THINK you have your plumbing figured out yet.

Here's how the SanX works (it was discontinued about 5 years ago, but installed units are still legal IF operated according to specs and the chemical TDX is used): It consists of a 9 gal tank that has a mixer and macerator in it, a separate "box" to hold the gallon jug of TDX, a pump that connects the jug to the tank (that's the small motor), an overboard discharge pump (the larger pump) and a set of switches and relays. The toilet flushes into the tank...when the tank is full, flip the switch to "treat and discharge"...that causes the pump to inject a pint of chemical into the tank and start the mixer and macerator, which runs for 20 minutes...then a relay turns off the mixer and macerator and starts the overboard discharge pump that dumps the tank. A relay then injects another pint of chemical into the tank and everything shuts down.

It's a legal combination Type I MSD/Type III (holding tank) without any need for any "grandfathering," but it's vile device that barely treats to legal CG Type I standards. TDX, which is a nasty formaldehyde based witches brew--and still available--is the ONLY chemical certified for use with it. I describe it a "vile" because the discharge STINKS! Even though it's legal to do so anywhere in waters where the discharge of treated waste is legal, only someone with a death wish would ever dump it in an anchorage or their slip if anyone else is within a mile.

You said, "Today I completed conversion of the sinks and shower into a sump system that pumps overboard..."

Good! But I don't quite understand this part:

"... and Friday we start rerouting plumbing so we have the option of treated water into the holding tank."

Treated water? If you mean you're thinking of putting your toilet waste through the SanX and then into the holding tank, forget that...the odor will be unbearable! Not to mention that a gallon of TDX is $20+ and lasts for only 4 treatment cycles.

So pulling the SanX out is your best option...and, unless you routinely sail at least 3 miles outside SF Bay, the overboard discharge pump too....'cuz you can't use it to dump the tank in the Bay, only at sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline.

However...Plan B might make sense: keep the 9 gal. SanX tank...pull out everything else including the 40 gal tank. Replace with an Electro Scan (current version of the Lectra/San) or PuraSan (version of Lectra/San designed for use with toilets that flush with fresh water). Flush into the tank while in your marina, flush overboard through the treatment device when away from it.

 

[meuritt]

Re: I don't think you've got the plumbing exactly right

Thanks very much, as clear as I tried to be, i missed the mark.

Fresh water... yes salt water, fresh as opposed to through the head.

Treated is post San-x. So I was thiking of SanX into holding tank, but I take your word that it will smell pretty badly.

But you have answered my question, get rid of the device, so out it goes, freeing up a bit of space. We will pump into the holding tank until such time as we add an ElectroScan in the future.

thanks very much

Mike

 

[meuritt]

Switchover went well, one Y was removed, so the Lavac head pumps into the built in fiberglass 40 gallon holding tank, we'll see how well that works out.

I couldn't see the label the way the MSD was installed and was surprised to find it was the Pre San-X model.

The now removed Y valve went to a through hull with some pretty ingenious hardware, so it is now closed off and will be removed or otherwise sealed up with the next haul out.

The remaining Y is connected to the SeaLand pump/macerator and will allow pumping the holding tank content overboard, but also acts as a bilge pump for those bigger emergencies. It will be locked in the bilge pump position.

Thanks for your help, having the operation explained to be made it possible to thoroughly flush the system before we took it apart.

Mike

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Glad to help.

I dunno how much good that SeaLand pump would be as a bilge pump, 'cuz at best it moves less than 10 gal/minute (impeller macerators move a max of 12 gpm). Otoh, if when water's coming in through a hole in the boat, any extra pump is better than none.

Just remember that you cannot legally dump the tank in SF Bay....the "3 mile limit" doesn't just mean 3 miles from the nearest shore, it means in open ocean at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline.