Seacocks, Thru-hulls & Ball valves. 10 to replace:(

[luvitt]

Ok, I know this is not an area to skimp on. I have 10 below the waterline, that are probably original, on an 86 40' Hunter Legend. I've been working on the boat for over a year and she's almost ready to launch. Im in real tight financial times. I bought one seacock the other day for the head (responsible for partial sinking of boat) and it was $48 w/ my port supply discount. I just dont think i can afford to replace them all. I would like too. But its costing me $400/month in the boatyard, and i dont think im gonna be able to afford them w/o staying in the yard longer.

I know...its not a good thing. i should replace them all. But they all appear to be functioning. I found a BoatU.S. article about maintaining them: http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/swmbs.asp How about that? I dont quite understand the article, I've never looked at a valve that close, I guess they can be disassembled?

Well, hopefully it is acceptable to disassemble them and service them. They need to be cleaned, greased, and inspected. I also like the suggestion about adding a zirc fitting to one of the fittings on the body. then you can grease them regularly in the water.

whats your thoughts?

Thanks,
b

 

[Hermit Scott]

What is the current configuration? Is it a through hull with a nut on it, with a ball valve on top of that?
There are plenty of people who haven't changed their through hulls out that don't seem to be that worried. Some of mine were glassed in pipes, not even real through hulls, but they were in there solid. Part of the pipe is still in the hull and I have to remove it today before I finish the job. You could always just glass them in deeper, but the real problem people have had isn't with the bottom leaking. They break off in your hand when you go to open or close them or you bump them with something and then you have a nice little fountain. You said you owned a boat yard? Didn't you hear stories about this?
Personally I would take out a loan to replace those through hulls if I had to. Once you get it to the slip it won't cost you $400 a month. And you will have time to pay back the loan and I gaurantee you won't have any regrets about it.

 

[luvitt]

I havent got that far with them yet. just been thinking about them, counting them, and replacing the one in the head. Im sure they are of varying sizes as well, but havent examined yet. the one in the head appears to be a thru-hull (plastic) with the valve being screwed on.

I did own a small boat shop, but it was for trailer power boats. and i wasnt really a mechanic! I was just the job getter, i.t. guy, marketing, gopher.

I bet my marina is gonna cost more than $400/month here in charleston. my only real choice for my size boat with a tall rig is at the premier marina- Patriots Point. $14.50/ft/month!

 

[Hermit Scott]

Then there's no differnece financially if you leave it in the yard a little longer. I faced the exact same situation. But my boat yard offered me a $400 for 3 months rate. So I left it there for the winterand I am finally getting to replace the through hulls today. Normally my baot yard costs $300 per month.
I got a bit of a late start. I will take some pics of the progress though and post them tonight.

 

[higgs]

I am not sure why you feel you need to replace them all unless they are gate valves with the shut off wheel. If they don't leak and if the handles operate reasonably I would not worry about them.

My guess is you have ball valves and a little vasoline applied to a shut valve, from under the boat when on the hard, should keep it working smoothly. Use a long handled cotten swab to put a little on it from underneath.

You need to determine if you have ball valves or not as I have seen older boats with the gate valve installed, but I bet by '86, no manufacturer was doing this.

I would highly reccomend spending the $25 or so for Don Casey's "This Old Boat". it will pay for itself.

 

[luvitt]

This is what the one in the head looks like:

this is what the engine intake looks like:

All the other valves look like both of these kinds. they are the type that the interior of the pipe turns when u turn the handle.

thanks,

 

[s sauer]

The top one is a ball valve, probably screwed down right onto the thru-hull fitting, assuming the threads were compatible (look to see if there was thread sealant while you're at it). The seconsd is a gate valve ; also should have had the straight thread thru hull fitting screwed into it with sealant on the threads. By the way, 1986 Hunters did come with Gate Valves; and most owners should have replaced them. Follow-up on what Higgs said about greasing them and you should be OK. Don't tighten or loosen them unless you take thrm apart with someone holdiong the thru hulls stationery from the optside and re-instal everything with new sealant.It's too easy to twist the whole assembly and break the sealant seal between the thru hull and the hull itself.

 

[Joe]

Gate valve??????

both of them look like ball valves or seacocks to me... the upper one can be used in plumbing systems or as a seacock when mounted to a theaded thru hull. The lower one has a flange that allows mounting to a backing plate for additional strength.

My guess is they are both bronze... If you think they are brass, change them to bronze or marelon. A green patina is normal on bronze fittings.

A gate valve uses a screw mechanism to push a "gate" across the opening and are very susceptable to corrosion and eventual failure. Gate valves normally have a "wheel" handle attached to at threaded post... like the water faucet for the garden hose. Having a lever that moves 90 degrees to open or close indicates that there is a ball mechanism inside the valve.

 

[luvitt]

what should i grease them with? vaseline? I think i have a can of blue "marine grease" ive always used on outboard steering.

thanks

 

[Hermit Scott]

They are both ball valves. The bottom is a ball type flange seacock. The top is a ball valve, both have reversable handles. I just got these exact types in the mail. I sent the bottom one back and bought flange adapters.
I have thought about this: it is said to get into the water and lube the bottom of the ball valve and then get in the boat and lube the top. IF you have the groco type that you are showing pics of, you can just take out the socket head pin that determines which way the handle closes and you can roll the ball all the way left and all the way right and you won't have to get wet.
As far as I have seen the top one is tapered top and bottom, and the bottom flange type is straight in the bottom and tapered at the top.

brobins-I worked on the through hulls for 6 hours today. I took about 3 hours removing the old ones. It took 3 or 4 hours to make the backing plates. All I have left to do is use marine sealant and tighten all the bolts down. That should be another 3 hours or so.
This was about a 15 hour job total for 5 through hulls. And I have to clean the entire interior of my boat now, it is covered in fiberglass dust. What an itchy mess!

 

[sailingdog]

Gate valves have a round handle, since they require turning the handle several complete revolutions to seat the gate. They look like this:

photo courtesy of Germes.

The top photo is of a ball valve and should not be used on a through hull directly, as the pipe threads are mismatched. Ball valves have NPT threads and the through hull has NPS, non-tapered threads.

The top one is a ball valve, probably screwed down right onto the thru-hull fitting, assuming the threads were compatible (look to see if there was thread sealant while you're at it). The seconsd is a gate valve ; also should have had the straight thread thru hull fitting screwed into it with sealant on the threads. By the way, 1986 Hunters did come with Gate Valves; and most owners should have replaced them. Follow-up on what Higgs said about greasing them and you should be OK. Don't tighten or loosen them unless you take thrm apart with someone holdiong the thru hulls stationery from the optside and re-instal everything with new sealant.It's too easy to twist the whole assembly and break the sealant seal between the thru hull and the hull itself.

Ball valves or tapered plug seacocks have a lever handle, since they only require a quarter turn to open or close, as seen in the two earlier photos.

The bottom photo appears to be a proper flanged seacock. It has a NPS thread in the flanged section and is designed to fit through-hulls properly. However, it would be better to replace it with a flanged adapter and a separate seacock, since that would make future repairs simpler. See Maine Sail's excellent webpage on this.

 

[Maine Sail]

Beautiful work Scott !

I worked on the through hulls for 6 hours today. I took about 3 hours removing the old ones. It took 3 or 4 hours to make the backing plates. All I have left to do is use marine sealant and tighten all the bolts down. That should be another 3 hours or so.
This was about a 15 hour job total for 5 through hulls. And I have to clean the entire interior of my boat now, it is covered in fiberglass dust. What an itchy mess!

And people balk when a boat yard tells you it's a $500 dollar job to properly replace a seacock!!!!$500.00 is a steal to anyone who's actually done this job....

Beautuful work Scott !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hermit Scott]

Thank you but I'm not quite finished yet. The mushroom heads aren't sitting flush against the outside of the hull. I have tried sanding the hull to be prepedicular with the backingplate, but the sander I was using was too big. I have to remedy that on 3 of the 5, probably another full day.

 

[luvitt]

What luck!

Well, I spent a good bit of time on all my thru hulls and seacocks yesterday. The good news is that they were recently upgraded to the Marelon product! I have never really paid attention, i'm sure i saw them, but seacocks havent been on the to-do-list until this week. I only have 3 bronze valves. 1 for the head sink drain, 1 for engine intake, and 1 for A/C Seawater pump. Also figured out the whale manual bige pump while i was down there. So much stuff on this boat, I've seen everything, but just havent had a chance to get to it all.

So anyway, the Marelon valves look brand new. still have tags hanging on them. so should I grease this kind of material? There are some pretty big valves too.

thanks

 

[sailingdog]

Brobins-

Yes, they should be greased. Any good waterproof grease will work. Maintenance is key on Marelon seacocks or they can seize and fail. Operate them monthly at a minimum and grease twice a year.

 

[Hermit Scott]

I'm glad you are comfortable with the valves and through hulls. They are a lot of work.
Right now the inside of my boat is covered in fiberglass dust. I am going to just spray as much as I can down with a wate hose, yea...it's that bad.

 

[larryw]

The last time my boat was in the yard for a simple bottom job I told the yard manager to "have a look at those seacocks, too" Two days later, I get a call at work- all my seacocks needed replacing! Ten bronze seacocks! Electralysis had eaten them up. My marina was known to be very hot. Six thousand dollars. Better than the boat sinking in the slip, though.

 

[Hermit Scott]

Larry, were your seacocks bonded together?
And for the record for 6k, I will fly anywhere in the country to replace 10 through hulls and seacocks.

 

[sailingdog]

If your marina is known to be very hot... either ask them to isolate and fix the problem or go with Marelon seacocks and through-hulls.

The last time my boat was in the yard for a simple bottom job I told the yard manager to "have a look at those seacocks, too" Two days later, I get a call at work- all my seacocks needed replacing! Ten bronze seacocks! Electralysis had eaten them up. My marina was known to be very hot. Six thousand dollars. Better than the boat sinking in the slip, though.

 

[larryw]

Hermit and sailingdog;
No, Beneteau does not bond. There are no zincs on the engine heat exchanger, either, 'cause they use the two-wire system for all engine wiring (the block is not the ground) The marina has since been totally rebuilt and up to modern standards. I used to go thru a shaft zinc in three months, now one lasts nine months. 6k was the total yard bill, bottom job, some other things, too, not just the seacock costs.