Sea Trek "Trouble with tabernacles" The beginning.

[emergpa1]

Hello fellow trekkies...this thread is acutally about the problem i have with my Oday 26 deck mounted mast. Her prior owner did not like to be bothered with small things like deck leaks, prefering to solve them with gobs of silicon. So now my cored deck underneath the mast is soft, concave, and cracked. I have removed said boat from her birth and parked it in my back yard for a good old fashioned refit. This is my first ever refit. I have armed myself with friends from my local sail club on lake weiss, Alabama, and the don casey books on deck and hull repair. I would like to get some ideas for repairing the deck here, and to also beef it up. My first idea is to repair the deck, then attach the tabernacle to to a larger plate, and thru-bolt it? Or do I just reinforce with fiberglass. below are the pictures of the deck, base of mast, and tabernacle. Of course, there are many other issues, but i wanted to keep this thread to this problem, at least for now. thanks everyone.

 

[sailingdog]

Is the deck solid or cored in that area? Also, what is inside the cabin—a bulkhead or a compression post, and what condition is it in?

 

[emergpa1]

there is a bulkhead with a small approx. 3x3 post under the mast.(second picture and fourth picture) the post is mounted on the forward side of the bulkhead, and may have been added at some point. the bulkhead is in pretty good condition, with a small area of rot at the sole/bottom where there has been standing water on the port side of the boat, also with evidence of a leak at the port shroud attachment.(third pix) the top part and most of the sole, show no evidence of rot. also the post, which must be teak, shows no softness, even at the sole where there has been standing water. It does appear that the sole, like the deck, is somewhat sunken here. My intention is to try not to have to replace the bulkhead.....but wiser heads may say otherwise. this boat is a laker sailer, though i would like to cruise the keys (who doesn't?). . i think/hope the bulkhead can be salvaged if the boat is fitted properly, and kept dry, maybe with some spot repair at the sole/bottom of the bulkhead

 

[emergpa1]

the deck is cored here

 

[Joe11688]

I think that you're heading in the right direction with Don Casey's book to go by. The hinge plate should be bolted through the cabin and as long as you have the plate off, you may want to consider mounting a utility plate under it. After you get the mast step area reconstructed and ready for the hinge plate, you want to use a good Polysulfide type caulking and not silicone. The same with the chain plates. Here's a picture of my utility plate. I cut the back of my plate off because it interfered with my mast raising/lowering from aft.
Joe

 

[sailingdog]

Well, first thing to do is to put in a post in the interior with a jack and make sure the cabin top is at the proper height. Then repair the bulkhead and replace the post. Ideally, the post should go through the cabin sole and connect directly to the keelson on the boat. If that isn't possible, then it should have a stringer or floor directly beneath it under the cabin sole to transfer the loads from the mast down to the keelson.

Then remove the top layer of the laminate on the cabintop and cut away the rotten core. Then I would replace the core surrounding the area the mast step is located on, but leave the actual area the mast step is in as solid fiberglass. You'll need to grind the fiberglass where you taper the patch in to a 12:1 bevel.

 

[Joe11688]

Before you tear out anything on top of the cabin, you should make up some kind of a reference point to insure that the mast hinge plate is mounted back in that exact spot on the cabin. I'm sure that you know this, but it's an easy thing to forget once you get started. You'll need to drill four holes through the cabin top for the bolts later on, and you only want to drill them once. Good luck.
Joe

 

[sailingdog]

Good point Joe... forgot that fairly important step.

 

[Steve Dion]

I would suggest that you cut out the top layer of fiberglass with a skill saw. This will give you a view of what is really going on down below. Chances are you will need to completely rebuild the coring material and seal the deck.

Once you get this repaired you need to determine if the compression post is suitable to supporting your mast/rigging. There is no difference whether you are doing this repair for a lake or for the ocean. You need to be sure that your rig is not going to come down at the most unexpected time.

Once you repair the deck area you can start on the interior. Once you dig into the compression post you will have a better idea if the bulkhead is also rotted.

Do it right the first time, it is usually less expensive that way.

 

[BobM]

I suggest you get your hands on a moisture meter or hire a surveyor with one to map out the bad core in your deck. That looks pretty bad and you might find more than you bargained for. I'd strongly consider sistering some wood to the base of those bulkheads if they are rotted. Time to break out a pen knife and poke it in to see just how bad things are.

I looked at one neglected boat and, sad to say because the owner was a very nice guy who had the boat for 20 years, the entire deck was saturated and the boat wasn't worth the expense to have professionally repaired nor worth the effort (to me) to DIY.

All I am saying is that you should know what you are in for before you start opening up the decks. It won't cost much. Have you tapped around the deck? You can get a pretty good approximation even doing that, if you have an experienced hand to train you regarding the differences in sound. Try starting out near your mast tapping on the deck with the plastic handle of a screwdriver. Work your way out. If the deck core is okay you should hear a transition from a dull thunk to a sharp rap.

Good luck.

BobM

 

[BobM]

By the way, don't be too alarmed by all the spider cracking. I believe O'day layed their gelcoat on pretty thick and it is not uncommon to see a fair amount of crazing. Certainly an O'day 28 I looked at had plenty.

 

[sailingdog]

Steve—

I don't think you can really separate the two repairs so simply. If the post isn't holding the cabin top in the proper position, chances are pretty good the top is going to be slightly deformed. So to properly fix the cabin top, you have to get it supported in the proper position first.

I would suggest that you cut out the top layer of fiberglass with a skill saw. This will give you a view of what is really going on down below. Chances are you will need to completely rebuild the coring material and seal the deck.

Once you get this repaired you need to determine if the compression post is suitable to supporting your mast/rigging. There is no difference whether you are doing this repair for a lake or for the ocean. You need to be sure that your rig is not going to come down at the most unexpected time.

Once you repair the deck area you can start on the interior. Once you dig into the compression post you will have a better idea if the bulkhead is also rotted.

Do it right the first time, it is usually less expensive that way.

 

[Joe11688]

Good point Joe... forgot that fairly important step.

This was always one of my biggest screw-ups whenever I tackled a job of any nature, Dog.

 

[Joe11688]

By the way, don't be too alarmed by all the spider cracking. I believe O'day layed their gelcoat on pretty thick and it is not uncommon to see a fair amount of crazing. Certainly an O'day 28 I looked at had plenty.

Bob,
When I bought my O'Day 222 new at the Boston Boat Show, it wasn't too long after that, that I started to notice small voids breaking out in the Gel-coat in certain areas of the cockpit. That year, while at the Newport Boat Show, I ran into Chuck Resnevic who was a General Foreman in the O'Day factory, and I told him about it. He took my name and address and sent me a 2 oz. jar of colored resin filler. The color was called Tidal Sand. Evidently, they knew about these problems back then. Their quality control may not have been as good as the Boston Whaler Co., but I can honestly say that they were always very gracious and helpful to me when I visited their factory back then.
Joe

 

[emergpa1]

Well, first thing to do is to put in a post in the interior with a jack and make sure the cabin top is at the proper height. Then repair the bulkhead and replace the post. Ideally, the post should go through the cabin sole and connect directly to the keelson on the boat. If that isn't possible, then it should have a stringer or floor directly beneath it under the cabin sole to transfer the loads from the mast down to the keelson.

Then remove the top layer of the laminate on the cabintop and cut away the rotten core. Then I would replace the core surrounding the area the mast step is located on, but leave the actual area the mast step is in as solid fiberglass. You'll need to grind the fiberglass where you taper the patch in to a 12:1 bevel.

It sounds like i will have to put a post in there. The sole is sunken in underneath the post in that area, creating a small bowl that pools with water. How is it possible that the bulkhead and small post could indent the sole of the cabin. Does that mean the sole does not sit directly on the cabin floor?
How do i go about making the post go thru the cabin sole to the keelson?. I am not able to visualize the architecture under the sole. I have never seen a picture or graphic of that area. My only thought is to cut and remove a section of the sole to accomadate where a post might go. One of the experienced sailors in our club suggest simply putting a post there and mounting it to the sole. I wonder if the sole lies directly on the keelson?
Does anyone have a series of photos. or is there a book with this repair explained?
I am becoming somewhat alarmed.

 

[BobM]

Joe,

Don't get me wrong, I'm not panning O'day quality in general. You can still get a lot of O'day help from Rudy at D&R marine too.

I was just pointing out that he shouldn't get too excited about even pretty deep crazing on his O'day in my experience. Also, that either tapping or metering is really required to get a handle on how extensive the core damage it.

No boat or builder is perfect. I don't pull any punches regarding my boat either. Just look at all my posts regarding the lousy engine beds in my S2 9.2A ;-)

 

[emergpa1]

yes, the cabin top, as well as sole, are indented here, as if to compensate for the indention on the deck. So it is for sure i am going to have to put in a post.

 

[emergpa1]

I have had some experienced sailors at the club check the other areas of the deck, and she seems sound otherwise. hull, keel and rudder are in great shape, as are standing and running riggiing. She is acutally a very pretty boat, and sails quiet well. My wife and I really like it, so i think the work will be worth it. I do have basic carpentry and woodworking skills, as well as basic wiring skills. Some automotive. But no boat repair.
What I am having trouble visualizing is the steps of putting the post into place, without knowing how tall the post has to be in the first place. Is there a series of photos with explainationis of this repair. Also, do i tear out the entire port bulkhead?

 

[BobM]

Define "a good old fashioned refit"

I guess it would be helpful, at least to me, to understand what your intentions are.

Is the goal to restore the boat to newish condition or are you just looking to get it back out on the water. Weiss Lake is pretty good sized. What type of sailing do you plan to do? Is there a limit on what you want to invest in this boat?

Anyhow...what most people are getting at is that, although you asked for advice specific to this particular repair, there are a bunch of other things involved in supporting your deck stepped mast. Doing it right might be a lot of work...fix/replace bulkheads...fix/replace compression post...replace deck core...caulk leaky chain plates...and involve a fair amount of carpentry and time. There is a recent post with photos regarding a bulkhead replacement on a Catalina.

I suggest you get a firm handle on all the damage - visible and as yet invisible. Then price out what it will take to do the repairs you need to do. Then decide how to go about it.

 

[Joe11688]

Joe,

Don't get me wrong, I'm not panning O'day quality in general. You can still get a lot of O'day help from Rudy at D&R marine too.

I was just pointing out that he shouldn't get too excited about even pretty deep crazing on his O'day in my experience. Also, that either tapping or metering is really required to get a handle on how extensive the core damage it.

No boat or builder is perfect. I don't pull any punches regarding my boat either. Just look at all my posts regarding the lousy engine beds in my S2 9.2A ;-)

I know, Bob. With all the bugs that I had to correct on my O'Day sailboat, I'm still very happy that I bought it. They only built about 300 O'Day 222's in Fall River Ma, and my particular boat was one out of 20 that O'Day installed a full stern rail to. I'm pretty happy with it and I wouldn't trade her for anything out there.
Joe