sea anchor

[marcin_palacz]

A colleague (also a Vega owner) called me today and told about his
recent experience with a sea anchor.
He dropped a "conical" sea anchor from the bow of his Vega in heavy sea
and more than 40 knot wind. Waves started to flood the cockpit and he
says he almost lost the boat (the boat was still moving back with a
speed of about 4 knots).

After he cut off the bow sea anchor, and arranged another one
(makeshift) at the stern, the situation become much more handleable,
safe and almost dry.
He warns that a bow sea anchor should never be used on a Vega.
Any comments to that, similar or opposite experience ?

Marcin
V1958 "Lotta"

 

[lewills30]

If the anchor held would he still have been in the same mess? If the boat is moving backwards it seems it would take on water? Why would he anchor up in this kind of weather? Seems there is more to al of this? Just asking, don’t want to do the same thing.LarrySent from Windows MailFrom: Marcin PalaczSent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎November‎ ‎28‎, ‎2013 ‎1‎:‎25‎ ‎PMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
 










A colleague (also a Vega owner) called me today and told about his
recent experience with a sea anchor.
He dropped a "conical" sea anchor from the bow of his Vega in heavy sea
and more than 40 knot wind. Waves started to flood the cockpit and he
says he almost lost the boat (the boat was still moving back with a
speed of about 4 knots).

After he cut off the bow sea anchor, and arranged another one
(makeshift) at the stern, the situation become much more handleable,
safe and almost dry.
He warns that a bow sea anchor should never be used on a Vega.
Any comments to that, similar or opposite experience ?

Marcin
V1958 "Lotta"

 

[j.hunter9999]

There is far too little information to comment adequately. It sounds like he really needed more of a drogue. But I would be interested to understand the nature of the seas versus the wind.

Although many people subscribe to a straight forward deployment of a sea anchor off the bow, proper sea anchor deployment is a balance between sea anchor, tiller and sail.

In any case, there are many variables that affect sea anchor performance. I have only used a sea anchor once and not on a Vega. I have used a drogue on a Vega with good results. Either way, there remains many variables and considerations in sea anchor deployment. I tend not to use the term "never" when discussing options.

BW

 

[tomfentonvega2977beowulf]

I agree it sounds as if a drogue was used rather than a sea anchor. As I understand it, a sea anchor is massive when it opens out and it is streamed from the bow so you lie bow to the wind. A drogue is relatively small and used to slow you down and steady you, rather like streaming warps from the stern. So a drogue surely is to be used from the stern? (I am relieved not to have had to use either.)
Mat Rutherford swore by his sea anchor. Here is an excerpt from an article about him and how St Brendan was modified to take the sea anchor: The Bering Strait presented him with the greatest challenge of the
whole voyage. The remnants of two typhoons tracked right over him,
pinning him against the Alaskan coast. It blew 40-45 knots for nearly 10
days, with only a brief respite between the storms.
One of Matt’s final refit projects on St. Brendan had been
to reinforce the foredeck and install a heavy-duty Samson post from
which he could stream a sea anchor. On the underside of the deck he
installed a massive backing plate, as large as the entire bow section,
and fitted a tie-rod into a bolt just above the waterline at the bow.
“You’d have to rip the entire bow off the boat before the post failed,” Matt said dryly.
It worked. He drifted on his sea anchor, riding out the storms until
he was forced to retrieve the device, claw his way back offshore, and
redeploy it. He suffered one bad knockdown, which put St. Brendan’s mast in the water. TomTom Fenton49 Manor Road, Wivenhoe, Colchester CO7 9LN
M +44 7740 928369SV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf

 

[pjacobs55]

In the Pardy's book, "Storm Tactics", they use a line out from midships with a snatch block on the end, snapped over the drouge line. Tightening this line will put the boat at an angle to the wind, much like heaving-to.There's an interesting article at Series Drogue, ocean survival comparing sea anchores to drogues, with an interesting video clip of a sailboat in large seas ... Yikes !!!Peterwww.mostlyaboutboats.ca

 

[gurkin42]

 I have a Jordan series drogue which I have not deployed in anger yet. It would seem that all the data and consequent evidence would suggest that these are one of the most important tools in the storm survival tool bag. I was impressed by the case studies and arguments forwarded by the advocates of this system and like most of us I am all ears when it comes to safety and survivability. I intend to trial the deployment and recovery of the drogue this upcoming season but would be interested to hear of peoples experiences with this or any other method of being “safe at sea” with respect to our hull choice. I feel that speculation should have no place during a critical survival moment and that we are obligated as skippers to figure out the best of all possible solutions cheers |John

 

[marcin_palacz]

First lesson learned for me is that you, English speaking Vegarians,
distinguish a sea anchor and a drogue. My colleague said he used a
"dryfkotwa" (in Polish), and we don't have two names for the two
devices, just different types of "dryfkotwa".

I think he used a drogue, probably such one:

http://www.lalizas.com/subcategory.php?selected_id=16.27

which is by the way called a "Sea Anchor (Boat Drogue)" by Lalizas.

Apart from semantics, I completely agree that there are many different
variables in considerations. Perhaps the drogue was too small or rather
a sea anchor should be deployed. It is anyway an interesting
observation for me that trying to use a standard (too small?) drogue
from the bow may lead to a dangerous situation.

Marcin
V1958 "Lotta"

 

[tiempo2010]

I have never used a Jordan drogue or been in conditions where it may be effective. I do know from one who has though that in high seas with breaking crests that a Jordan set from the stern will cause the seas to break on board, hitting the companionway.

 

[gurkin42]

It is currently accepted that a drogue is deployed from the
back of the boat with the understanding that drogue is to drag as anchor is to stop. The best book I have read on the subject is
Heavy Weather Tactics using Sea Anchors and Drogues by Earl R Hinz (ISBN0-939837-37-3)
although there is a degree of favoritism towards Para anchors it is quite a
comprehensive body of work and well worth the read. Cheers John

 

[SVFlyAway]

A drogue is to slow things down basically, that is why the Vega mentioned in the first email was being pooped since she is so low to the water. A para anchor is basically a parachute (the first ones were actually old military chutes) and are flown off the bow and designed to stop the boat and hold it into the wind and hopefully the waves. The reasoning being that the bow is better designed to take a sea and is higher anyway.

Earl Hinz also wrote a book on anchors. He was an interesting fellow who I had the privilege to spend an evening with 15 - 20 years ago. My favorite book of his is 'Landfalls of Paradise', this about Pacific anchorages. He and Betty did a couple long cruises in the Pacific after he retired from his career as an aeronautical engineer. After his retirement he became an author.

He died about 4 years ago (following shortly after Betty passed (and she was a lovely person)). His ashes were scattered at Pearl Harbor with an appropriate ceremony (he was actually at the airfield in Oahu on December 7, 1941 and he vividly recalled seeing the waves of Japanese aircraft attacking).

One more thought. I've sailed in several oceans and seas for almost 50 years. I've owned a dozen of so boats and on several of the bigger ones carried drogues. In all my sea miles, I never deployed one, other than to see how it works in moderate conditions. It always seemed to me that it was better to just sail off the storm as Bernard Moitessier describes in his couple books (my favorite 'A Sea Vagabond's World' is a classic and full of lots of useful stuff). So, in my humble opinion, boats are generally better off dealing with the situation as designed (and I am sure I will be flamed on that statement). The boat usually survives better than the crew. During the Fasnet race of 1979, when that storm hit the fleet, many crews abandoned their boat for the life raft. After the storm, many boats were found floating, but abandoned and just bobbing around; but the crews were never to be seen again. The boats were beat up, but they were basically intact.