SCUBA gear and boat cleaning...

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C

Cayuga

Scuba

Scuba shops will insist on seeing a PADI or other certifcation card prior to selling you a tank or flling a tank. I do not know of a single scuba shop that does not follow this rule. Cost of certification is about $200. small tank and regultor will cost you about $200.
 
S

Sandi

DIving with Idiots

is as bad as boating with them. Don't SCUBA without training and certification. Boyle's law is difficult to overcome! And for the regulation/certification thing - it may one's right to do stupid stuff, but unfortunately others become endangered while rescuing the idiot. We dove with a guy who had severe heart problems and shouldn't have been diving. He got in trouble and the dive master was responsible to rescue him. He died be for he hit the surface, and the dive master trying to save him died in the chamber. His wife said he wanted to die doing what he loved. What a selfish thing. The whole experience made a lasting impression on my two kids. They were both teens at the time.
 
Feb 17, 2006
5,274
Lancer 27PS MCB Camp Pendleton KF6BL
Calif. Ted

Yeah, I also hire someone to clean my hull. But this is MY boat and I want to do the work. Trust me when I say that I am not going to try and circumvent the rules for SCUBA use. If I am really that interested in doing underwater work, then I will enroll in a class and get the proper certification. Just like I did before buying a sailboat with USCGA and Red Cross sail/basic boatmanship.
 
Jun 7, 2004
944
Birch Bay Washington
Stay shallow and have a lookout

and you should be ok. It is a good idea to get some training but if you are only 6 feet down and use extreme caution, you should be ok.
 
Jun 8, 2004
2,936
Catalina 320 Dana Point
Visibility is terrible Brian, I was actually happy

when the admiral said I could buy another boat but that I was too old to dive on it myself anymore. Now I just need to convince her I'm too old to wax, polish, varnish, rerig, do the mechanical etc.
 
Dec 30, 2005
44
- - Nassau Bay, TX
Safety is your call

Whether you dive is your call. Please consider that without proper training, you can get hurt badly because you won't learn the proper use of scuba gear. To answer your questions, 1) You may be able to buy gear without certification 2) You will likely not be able to get tanks filled without proof of certification You stated you live in California and there may be tougher requirements.
 
Dec 30, 2005
44
- - Nassau Bay, TX
Not a government issue

Franklin, So far, the recreational dive industry is self-regulated with the training agencies setting standards, with the postive goal to promote safe practices. The defensive view of this is more to fend off attorneys than government. Commercial diving, however, is another matter.
 
May 21, 2004
36
Sabre Sabre 32 Salem
the last 6 feet can mess you up

Get some training. Most people think "hey I'm only 6 feet deep - what could happen". In actuallity the biggest pressure changes happen in the last 6 feet. If you were 6 feet under, held your breath and ascended you would very likely suffer some sort of over exapnsion injury ranging from a burst eardrum to an embolism.
 
T

tom

Buy a Hooka rig

they sell battery powered and gas powered hooka rigs that allow you to go about 30' deep. No regulations!!!! If you are very comfortable in the water and know the basics you should be able to clean your boat hull. It is really hard to get an embolisim in less than 10' of water. You'd have to take a maximum deep breath and go up without exhaleing. But that said you can get in trouble diving from hypothermia entanglement and panic etc. But assuming that you are reasonable and comfortable in the water the hooka should be just fine. Bouyancy is the biggest problem working underwater. You need to be relatively heavy to keep from floating up against the hull. This also means that you will sink to the bottom if unconcious. Have someone topside or better yet have someone in the water with you. Most hookas can support two divers. Be careful especially of stray electrical currents that can occur around marinas. I won't scuba dive around a marina. For what it's worth I am PADI certified Rescue diver and have been diving since 1974.
 
Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
mmerriman

If that were true, then everybody who swims down to the bottom of a pool would hurt themselves. I dive down to check out my keel all the time without injury (no gear).
 
J

Jack Hart

Yes Franklin, but you didn't breath compressed air

Hi Franklin, if you just take a breath at the surface it's one thing, by breathing compressed air at depth, then assending without breathing, that where the expansion injuries occur. (One breath of air at 33 feet is like two at the surface.) As to the ears, if you continually keep presure on your ears at say one down to the six or seven or so feet you will be cleaning you bottom, yes it will cause injury to your ears. AGAIN, I am not on a rant here, just sharing information that will hopfully cause someone to not get hurt.
 
Jun 7, 2004
334
Coronado 35 Lake Grapevine, TX
Wrong Physics

Your physics are wrong Franklin, and that is a perfect demonstration of why someone using SCUBA should be educated. If you take a full breath of air at the surface, no matter how deep you go, the volume of air in your lungs is not going to exceed what it was at the surface. The air in the sacs of your lungs will take less space as you descend, and that's not a problem. When you get back to the surface, they will simply return to "full". However, if you go 6 feet down, and completely fill your lungs with air, you have a different situation. As you go up, the air will expand (it was compressed, remember?). The air sacs in your lungs are not very elastic. They will not expand, but the air will. The results are burst alveoli, or lung over-expansion. Actually, in my classes I was taught that an ascension of 18 inches can cause over-expansion. I never tested it, so I can't say for sure first hand, but I'll take this one on faith.
 
Jul 17, 2005
586
Hunter 37.5 Bainbridge Island - West of Seattle
Yes, even in a pool.

Depending on the depth of the pool, if you go to the bottom of a pool, then push off hard from the bottom with your legs towards the surface quickly, there is a possibility of hurting yourself too. Each 33 feet of water is one atmosphere. At water's surface is 1 atmosphere. So at 33’ down, or now 2 atmosphares, one unit of air on the surface is now ½ of the volume. Now, if you think about it in reverse, if you have 1 unit of air at 33’ in your lungs, when you get to the surface, you lung will have to be twice a big to hold it, or it will explode (bad). Also, when you breath, you body will absorb air, and into your veins. They are all of a certain size. When you are breathing on scuba at 33’, all of them will be of a certain size for 1 atmosphere of pressure. If you come up too fast, all of those air molecules in your veins will double in size (also bad). If they are in your joints, they will cause the bends (really bad). A decompression chamber will compress the air in the chamber, and the ones in your body along with it, back down to a certain depth. Then slowly bring you back up to surface, and let your body expel the air molecules normally (very good). Yes, I have been in a chamber, not because of any diving problems, but as part of my training. So, if anyone wants to go diving with no training, I surely wouldn’t recommend it. But if somehow you still want to go, and is able to find a way to get all the stuff to do it, well, good luck. Oh, did you know you shouldn't go diving when your sinus is acting up? Want to know why? Go take a class. By the way, I assume you would also like to jump out of an airplane with a parachute, with no training, am I right? I just bet there are a lot of pilots who are just chomping at the bit to take you up for a jump if you haven't been certified to jump.
 
T

tom

Buy a book

Assuming you can snorkle and swim and are comfortable in the water you can buy a book on SCUBA diving. All of this hysteria about embolism is pretty funny. One simple rule breath out while ascending.... Now if you want to do more than clean your boat's bottom at a safe location then training is a great ideal. If you are dealing with cold murky water ,strong currents underwater stuff that could lead to entanglement you can easily kill yourself!!!! But in a protected bay with warm clear water and sand it should be fine. I like spearfishing for catfish in lakes. You'd be amazed at the effort it takes to get a 20# catfish into a boat. Catfish like to hide in stumps and submerged trees and the chance of entrapment is real. This is advanced diving and not for novices!!!!
 
Jul 17, 2005
586
Hunter 37.5 Bainbridge Island - West of Seattle
Common sense.

Hey, anyone know where I can get a book on sky diving or driving a car? ;d No, this is not hysteria about embolism. All this isn’t a big deal, but I also don’t want to trivialize it either. It is called common sense. People need to be well educated in order to participate in certain activities, and some activities are inherently more dangerous than others. You can probably attempt to do anything without adequate training, but you are on your own. Happy sailing.
 
Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
driving a car?

Yep...it's called the Texas Driver's handbook. I never took driver's ed. I read the book on the way to taking the test. I passed the test with flying colors and have a perfect driving record for the past 10 years. Only been in one accident in 20 years that was my fault and that's because the lady stopped in the middle of an intersection. My point isn't that things in life aren't danerous, but some are more capable of learning on their own and hate sitting through some boring class taught by an idiot. If the only danger is to himself, then let him deal with the consiquences. I learned out to dive 25 years ago and was certified (but don't remember which kind), but I've long lost that card and feel all I need is to just do a little reading....but no...rules now say I have to spend over $300 and waste 2 weekends. Same thing with jumping out of a plane. Army had me go through a 3 week training course. Damn if all I really needed was just a couple of hours of instruction.
 
Jul 17, 2005
586
Hunter 37.5 Bainbridge Island - West of Seattle
Yep, I read the book on driving too, but....

my dad taught me how to drive. I didn't just read and go drive. FYI, I didn't take driver's ed either. Happy sailing. Spring will be here soon, and time for me to go dive the boat again. :)
 
T

tom

All Diving is not Created Equally

To me using an underwater breathing apparatus is just an extention of snorkling. I snorkled many years before using scuba. Unfortunately many dive classes now teach that equipment is what makes you safe. I've met certified divers that can't swim 50 yards!!! Diving might be compared to swimming or playing in the water in general. Most people can safely wade in a swimming pool. But wadeing across a river is much more dangerous wading on slippery rocks is much more dangerous. Many people can swim in a pool but swiming across a river or bay or even a small lake is beyond their ability. What I am saying is that if you are comfortable snorkling to clean your boat adding a hooka rig is not that big of step. We are not talking about decompression diving on ship wrecks(been there done that), we are talking about swimming around a boat a few feet under the water with a clear escape route to the surface. Breathing with a hooka should be safer than snorkling as long as you breath out while ascending. Driving a car or jumping out of a plane are far more dangerous!!!!
 
Jun 7, 2004
334
Coronado 35 Lake Grapevine, TX
A Few More Notes

Tom, You said two opposing statements. "To me using an underwater breathing apparatus is just an extention of snorkling." "Breathing with a hooka should be safer than snorkling AS LONG AS YOU BREATH OUT WHILE ASCENDING." (my empahsis) That last part is what makes the first sentence just wrong. It's not an extension of snorkeling because you are using compressed air. It is because you are using compressed air that you should breath out while ascending. Crossing the street is a pretty safe endeavor, as long as we follow "the rules". The rules are pretty simple, but deadly if you don't follow them. While it's simple to say "look both ways before crossing", we sort of assume that everyone knows and understands that the reason you look both ways is to make sure a car isn't coming. Unfortunately, just telling someone that they should exhale while ascending doesn't tell them why, and the reason isn't as obvious as why you look both ways crossing the street. Just from what you've seen here, surely you can see how if you simply tell someone "you should exahale when ascending" isn't enough. You can be sure that without understanding WHY, there will be SOMEONE who'll say to themselves "Hey self, when I hold my breath and go down 6' to my keel, I don't exhale. When I go down to the bottom of the 10' pool, I don't exhale. Shoot, whoever told me that is nuts, I don't need to worry about exhaling". That's the difference between being quickly told what to do, and being educated. As for teaching that equipment is what makes for safety, I'm not aware of that, but then I haven't taken classes for a while. If true, it's a poor thing to teach. Equipment is definitely PART of the safety factor, but a full understanding of the physics involved, and your physical capabilities is as important, if not moreso. When I was first certified (1979), we were required to swim 100 yards, and tread water for 5 minutes with our hands out of the water. When my wife certified 11 years ago (when we got married) she was required to do the same (both requirements allowed us to use fins, I didn't do it that way, because I didn't need to). Of course, we both went to the same dive shop, so I don't know if it was a PADI requirement. You've got my curiosity up. I'll check into it. ===== Franklin, First of all, the only "rules" that require your card are those of the business from which you want to get the equipment, or your tank filled. It's simple, find one that doesn't have that rule, or get the c-card. I don't know who you were certified by, but if the process didn't teach you the difference between breathing uncompressed surface air and compressed air underwater, then you're right, it was taught by someone unqualified. You should take a refresher class. If you don't want to do that, you can STILL get your c-card without "wasting" two weekends or spending $300. PADI and NAUI both certify for life. I think you have to pay $25 to replace your card. At least, that's what mine (PADI) cost about 11 years when I got it replaced. However, I decided to just invest some extra money and get a refresher course. If it wasn't PADI or NAUI (didn't the YMCA used to do some sort of cert), then it explains a lot.
 
Dec 2, 2003
4,245
- - Seabeck WA
Franklin, Herb's right.

It's all about physics. That, and the TRAINING the courses provide. You know the value of training. It allows you to properly react to danger without having to compose a conscious thought. Two places where that is important come to mind; Combat and scuba diving (with compressed air) If you had a card many years ago, fine. But I learned a simple lesson that wasn't taught in my class. You can test the physics yourself. Just put an extension hose on a snorkel. When in the water, breathe. Then dive and keep breathing. You'll see. How far down did you make it to? Two feet is about the limit. Franklin, tally up the opinions on this thread. You are wanting to 'go-it' the macho way. Everyone one else says don't. DON'T! We enjoy your company and look forward to sharing your adventures. Got it?
 
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