I am not the most experiance sailor, only four years now and mostly weekend type stuff on the bay with the annual trip down the coast. I usally have the choice of what direction I sail {and days} but the other day I didn't. I was sailing around a protected area and needed to sail coarse downwind in a heavy chop. I would guess 4' to 5' and not rolling seas but step and breaking. The winds were 15 knots and gusting. I had the jib furled, main reefed and out about 3/4 to the speaders. I was enjoying surfing the boat a bit but I was aware of the large looking waves to my stern. Keep in mind that I am in a Catalina 27 so even a 5 foot chop looks really big. You may guess what happened next but the rudder lost its bite and whammm,.. the boat heeled so far that the outer boom was wet and I was 90 degrees to the next wave. I was lucky that the boat righted itself quickly and altho nerve racking I finished that leg of the trip without another mishap. Besides going to sailing school or not being in 5 foot chop what advice do you off shore guys have. Should I have been using the jib furled up a bunch or was this kind of thing like hitting a pot hole {sh*&&^t happends}. Thanks for your advice, Jack
scary event
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The broach
It was bound to happen to you sooner or later if you go out in rougher conditions, though I am surprised your winds were only 15 and that happened. Perhaps a little less jib would have helped. I hope you had a preventer on your main. A broach is not uncommen when using a spinnaker in windy conditions. Here is a link that describes what probably happened: http://www.boats.com/news-reviews/articledetail.html?lid=1320 Now you know firsthand that a boat can take a lot and still keep going.
It was bound to happen to you sooner or later if you go out in rougher conditions, though I am surprised your winds were only 15 and that happened. Perhaps a little less jib would have helped. I hope you had a preventer on your main. A broach is not uncommen when using a spinnaker in windy conditions. Here is a link that describes what probably happened: http://www.boats.com/news-reviews/articledetail.html?lid=1320 Now you know firsthand that a boat can take a lot and still keep going.
Higgs has a good link, but that not withstanding
I think your problem was caused by not having your main out far enough. You said it was 3/4 to the shrouds, so that when you started to round up your side loads on the main increased, creating more heel, more weather helm, and more rounding. Had you had the main all the way out, you would have started dumping air from the main as you started to turn, giving you a much better chance to recover before you got knocked down. With the main 3/4 of the way to the shrouds you were lucky you didn't have an accidental Gybe (you didn't note that you were using a preventer). Sailing the jib on the same side would not have helped, but sailing the jib winged out to the other side might have helped, as would sailing the jib alone Knockdowns, Broaches, and roll-overs do happen. Prudent sailing can only minimize the possibilities, though on occasion, it prevents a disaster from happening. Good luck with your future sailing. Joe S
I think your problem was caused by not having your main out far enough. You said it was 3/4 to the shrouds, so that when you started to round up your side loads on the main increased, creating more heel, more weather helm, and more rounding. Had you had the main all the way out, you would have started dumping air from the main as you started to turn, giving you a much better chance to recover before you got knocked down. With the main 3/4 of the way to the shrouds you were lucky you didn't have an accidental Gybe (you didn't note that you were using a preventer). Sailing the jib on the same side would not have helped, but sailing the jib winged out to the other side might have helped, as would sailing the jib alone Knockdowns, Broaches, and roll-overs do happen. Prudent sailing can only minimize the possibilities, though on occasion, it prevents a disaster from happening. Good luck with your future sailing. Joe S
paul, now that's a rollover and a great link
It looks like it might have been under the Golden Gate, but do you know if he was out of the main channel? That big a wave normally happens in a breaking inlet or where there is significant shoaling. Any info?
It looks like it might have been under the Golden Gate, but do you know if he was out of the main channel? That big a wave normally happens in a breaking inlet or where there is significant shoaling. Any info?
Joseph Shirley
Lookup on the net yachtsea. Charliecobra remember this? I was still working in Ca and trying to retire. paulj
Lookup on the net yachtsea. Charliecobra remember this? I was still working in Ca and trying to retire. paulj
paulj , I did and thanks
It appears that they were between the south tower and the fort, an area renowned for its waves, and the helmsman had 20 years experience sailing in the bay (so they say). I think he had 1 years experience 20 times over. He hadn't learned much in those 20 years. Sail safe Joe S
It appears that they were between the south tower and the fort, an area renowned for its waves, and the helmsman had 20 years experience sailing in the bay (so they say). I think he had 1 years experience 20 times over. He hadn't learned much in those 20 years. Sail safe Joe S
Yeah paulj, I remember that.
He was in the WRONG place and had the house open to boot. Hatch boards being in might've saved that boat. Not being where he was surely would've.
He was in the WRONG place and had the house open to boot. Hatch boards being in might've saved that boat. Not being where he was surely would've.
Steering in Waves
SailorJack: A couple of thoughts. On your mast head boat, sailing without a jib will cause the Center of effort (CE) to migrate aft of the center of resistance (CL) which will make your boat prone to rounding up. A little jib is better than none at all. If the boat is heeling too much or otherwise doesn’t feel like it’s in control, reef the main. Also, ease out the main almost to the shrouds and vang it down. If boat starts to round up, blow the vang. That will depower the sail and move the CE forward. Were you running down wind or were you broad reaching? The boat’s natural tendency is turn in the opposite direction of it’s heel. If the boat is healing to the left, it will want to go to the right. This can happen as the boat rolls as the result of wave action. The old maxim of steering downwind in waves is to keep the boat under the mast. That is, as the boat heels to the left, steer to the left. Think of it as balancing a broomstick on your fingertip. Try to come off of waves a little square and be prepared to force the boat down the wave, fighting the boat’s natural tendency to round up on the wave which will give you the broach. If you are reaching across a big wave pattern, you will have to steer a serpentine course. Driving somewhat square down the wave and then reaching up in the trough and backside of the next wave. Fort Point, under the Golden Gate is renown for waves breaking on the shore, but it was somewhat unusual for them to break all the way out to the South Tower. It was so unusual that a professional photographer was called out to record the action on the day Yachtsea sank. That area between the South Tower and shore is a shelf 30 feet deep and the sea bottom is bedrock. The unusual sea conditions were waves coming in from the NW and the abrupt change from the 300’ deep channel to the 30’ shelf is what caused the break. The normal wave pattern is from the SW and runs straight through the Gate where the depth change isn’t so great and the break is only along the shore. Often, the only way to get relief from an ebb that can run 5-7kts is to run between the tower and the shore. The owner of Yachtsea was very experienced (Yachtsea was a fixture in the Santana racing fleet) and had used this channel many times. He had kept his boat at SF Marina for years which is just around the corner from the Bridge and the Bridge should be considered his back yard... I’m not so quick to pass judgment.
SailorJack: A couple of thoughts. On your mast head boat, sailing without a jib will cause the Center of effort (CE) to migrate aft of the center of resistance (CL) which will make your boat prone to rounding up. A little jib is better than none at all. If the boat is heeling too much or otherwise doesn’t feel like it’s in control, reef the main. Also, ease out the main almost to the shrouds and vang it down. If boat starts to round up, blow the vang. That will depower the sail and move the CE forward. Were you running down wind or were you broad reaching? The boat’s natural tendency is turn in the opposite direction of it’s heel. If the boat is healing to the left, it will want to go to the right. This can happen as the boat rolls as the result of wave action. The old maxim of steering downwind in waves is to keep the boat under the mast. That is, as the boat heels to the left, steer to the left. Think of it as balancing a broomstick on your fingertip. Try to come off of waves a little square and be prepared to force the boat down the wave, fighting the boat’s natural tendency to round up on the wave which will give you the broach. If you are reaching across a big wave pattern, you will have to steer a serpentine course. Driving somewhat square down the wave and then reaching up in the trough and backside of the next wave. Fort Point, under the Golden Gate is renown for waves breaking on the shore, but it was somewhat unusual for them to break all the way out to the South Tower. It was so unusual that a professional photographer was called out to record the action on the day Yachtsea sank. That area between the South Tower and shore is a shelf 30 feet deep and the sea bottom is bedrock. The unusual sea conditions were waves coming in from the NW and the abrupt change from the 300’ deep channel to the 30’ shelf is what caused the break. The normal wave pattern is from the SW and runs straight through the Gate where the depth change isn’t so great and the break is only along the shore. Often, the only way to get relief from an ebb that can run 5-7kts is to run between the tower and the shore. The owner of Yachtsea was very experienced (Yachtsea was a fixture in the Santana racing fleet) and had used this channel many times. He had kept his boat at SF Marina for years which is just around the corner from the Bridge and the Bridge should be considered his back yard... I’m not so quick to pass judgment.
Good advise George
I think that response is what Jack was looking for. It'll ware your ass out, but that's how it's done. As for Yachtsea, the only warning he had was surfers. As far as I know you can't see a breaking wave from the backside so he probably didn't realise what he was headed into. So toss that in the box of knowledge, surfers = don't go near!
I think that response is what Jack was looking for. It'll ware your ass out, but that's how it's done. As for Yachtsea, the only warning he had was surfers. As far as I know you can't see a breaking wave from the backside so he probably didn't realise what he was headed into. So toss that in the box of knowledge, surfers = don't go near!
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