Sanitation System Parts

[Sherry]

I am preparing to replace my entire sanitation system - head, hoses, and holding tank. I am planning the project so I'll have all the parts I need before I get started. I've received help from many of you, including directions and pictures of a holding tank replacement project. But I still think I'm missing some piece of the puzzle of my understanding of how the H30 system works. Here’s what I’m thinking. Correct me where I’m wrong.The seacock to port, aft under the aft berth is the inlet for the head. (To starboard is the raw water inlet for the engine. To port, forward under the aft berth is the discharge for the head.) Water flows out of the seacock in a ¾” hose and runs somehow until it gets to the bulkhead behind the head; it comes thru a hole in the bulkhead to the toilet. [Does this hose need replacing, since it’s only freshwater, not waste?] Water goes from supply hose into pump mechanism and out again to the toilet, all right there at the toilet. [This is where I need a vented loop installed – between the pump and the bowl? Where to install it? In the compartment in the bathroom counter with a lid and a shelf inside - but not tall enough? Or the compartment aft of the toilet? How to access that one? With the shower seat, I don’t see putting on the bulkhead directly behind the toilet.] Waste and water go into the bowl and out the 1 ½” hose on the back of bottom of the pumping mechanism, then mysteriously disappear thru a hole in the bulkhead directly aft of the toilet And here’s where I get lost, but I’ll take a stab at it . . . The 1 ½” discharge hose dumps into the top of the holding tank. Another 1 ½” hose is connected to the outlet of the holding tank. That hose goes to a Y valve that allows the user to select whether to direct the waste to the dockside pump out fitting on deck or to the pump that discharges the waste overboard through the aforementioned seacock/through hull which is forward, to port, under the aft berth. [I’M NOT SURE IF THERE IS REALLY A Y VALVE, OR IF IT’S JUST A LINE LEAVING THE TANK, AND THE WASTE IS EITHER PULLED UP THE DOCKSIDE PUMP OUT OR OUT THE SEACOCK BY USE OF THE PUMP.] Also not sure if it needs any design modifications.The Rule pump that is mounted inside the stern in the port compartment has its inlet hose coming from the holding tank’s outlet hose or Y??? The Rule pump pumps waste out of the holding tank and out the through hull fitting. This hose already has a loop (not vented?) so doesn't need any modification?The dockside pump out fitting is also connected to the tank’s outlet hose or Y and is used to pull waste out of the tank. The tank also has a ¾” vent line running from the top of the tank to a vent on the port side of the hull. [Not sure exactly where this vent is, but I think that’s right.] So how did I do? The Y is the big thing I’m not sure about. I don’t recall seeing that, but I haven’t looked for it, either.My mission on the boat for this weekend is to document the entire existing system with pictures, but it's supposed to be 100 degrees on Saturday here. ugh.Thanks as always for the help!

 

[JC on Bainbridge]

Peggy is the pro on this one.

I am sure Peggy will chime in on this one. But here are a few items, my 2 cents worth.There usually isn't a Y valve in the outlet hose from the tank. It is usually as you described in capital letters in your post. There usually is a Y valve in the hose from the head discharge pump to the tank. It lets you direct the poop to either the holding tank, or out the bottom of the boat. Out the boat is a big no-no unless you are way way out. The pump from the tank to out of the boat is called a macerator pump. It is a garbage disposal for the poop tank. This pump is also a big no-no. Go ahead and install the Y and the macerator pump, but don't use it unless you are out past the legal limits. By the way, the Y valve needs to be secured so it can not direct the waste overboard when you are in protected waters. Coast guard will get you on that one.You know what? Just get Peggy's book. It will tell you more than you will ever want to know about this subject.

 

[BobW]

The Y can be in either place.

There's no real way to tell without crawling around in the bilges and lockers (amazing what you notice and find in there!).You wrote:The Rule pump pumps waste out of the holding tank and out the through hull fitting. This hose already has a loop (not vented?) so doesn't need any modification?That loop MUST be vented.JC is right about the problems with overboard discharge when you're inland. I've read about people just pulling out the macerator and plugging the through-hull.If that pump (you called it a Rule) isn't really a macerator (I didn't see any macerators made by Rule in the BoatUS catalog) it shouldn't be on the waste line. If it's a bilge pump it will either clog or burn up when you use it.I suppose there's no 'law' that there has to be a Y in the discharge line... but I don't think the pumpout station will suck the waste through the macerator.As to location of the vented loops... You probably have options I don't (even though I have a H31, my head is forward on the starboard side). You mentioned walls that hoses come through. The 'pump-to-toilet bowl' loop could conceivably go back through the wall and be mounted on the back side of it. The toilet to holding tank hose should have a loop (non-vented is my suggestion), and that one can be behind the wall (i assume there is a lazarette locker behind the head compartment).So, you're on the right track, Sherry ;DI hope this didn't come across as too much of a dis-jointed rambling....I just got Peggy's book (the Commodore was really impressed that it was autographed!!!) and tomorrow I'll know a lot more about everything *yksCheers,Bobs/v X SAIL R 8

 

[JC on Bainbridge]

What? She autographed it?

Hey, that's great you got an autograph. Does she always autograph it? yoohoo...Peggy?Bob: You are so right about the pump dying. I mentioned about the macerator pump, but didn't even think maybe it might not have been a macerator pump, and what will happen if it wasn't a macerator pump. What a quick death that will be.

 

[Sherry]

it IS autographed

Thanks guys. I DO have Peggie's book - read it cover to cover a couple of times - oh, and it IS autographed I just need to sort out specifically where/what hoses I have. Trying to assimilate ideas for designs from Ronco, other owners, Peggie, Don Casey, etc. into what's best for my H30.Thanks again!

 

[Jim Seamans]

Autographed? You Wimps

I got hugged and kissed......;d;dAnd a personal instpection of my sanitation installation! *yksJimS/V Java

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

A few things...

Although there's no LEGAL requirement for all seacocks to be readily accessible, unless they are, they're likely to be left open when no is aboard...and open head seacocks are the #1 cause of boats sinking in their slips. Which makes a head intake thru-hull/seacock under the aft berth a bad idea. However...if that's where Hunter put it (boat builders have taken to hiding 'em in inaccessible locations because they're "ugly" and safety has given way to decor)...unless you want to spend the money to move it, I guess you're stuck with it. Apparently you're also stuck with a toilet/tank overboard discharge thru-hull forward of the head intake thru-hull...which isn't a problem in your waters because you can't use it, but for boats that sail in coastal waters, that's also a dumb idea... because when the toilet discharge forward of the intake, the toilet recirculates the flush. Should you replace the head intake hose, since only fresh water goes through it? It's prob'ly ok...but as long as you're replacing the rest of the hoses, 3/4" white sanitation doesn't cost that much...so why not start with ALL new ones? As for where to put the vented loop in the head intake: on the bulkhead above the toilet. And yes, it does go between the pump and the bowl.As for the rest... You're at least 500 miles from any waters in which you can legally dump a tank or flush directly overboard, so you don't need any y-valves or macerators or manual pump to dump the tank...so in your waters, the toilet discharge line goes directly to tank...discharge hose from tank to deck pumpout fitting. Nothing in either line except MAYBE a loop in the line from the toilet to the tank. So here's your "schematic:" intake line from intake thru-hull to toilet pump...vented loop that's at least 6-8" above waterline at any angle of heel (which has to put it at about shoulder level when the boat is at rest) between the pump and the bowl....out of the toilet to the inlet fitting on--or at (I like on)--the top of the tank...line from tank discharge fitting to the deck pumpout. Vent line to a thru-hull on the side of the hull. That's IT! No y-valve, no pumps. If/when you ever take the boat to coastal waters that provide immediate access to open ocean so you can go at least 3 miles offshore from the nearest point on the whole US coastaline, it's easy to retrofit 'em. But pumpout is the only way you can legally empty a tank in your current waters.J.C....any pump can dump a tank. Most offshore cruisers use a manual diaphragm pump. There's no need to macerate it 'cuz solids and quick-dissolve TP dissolve within an hour...there's only liquid in tank. Except for a little sludge if you use chemicals instead of non-chemical products...but the sludge isn't dumped anyway. As for autographed books...ALL the ones ordered from the online store here are signed. The store sells 'em, I sign and mail 'em.Jim got "extras" 'cuz he and Joan took me sailing.

 

[Sherry]

sailing AND dinner AND beer

Peggie,Thanks! I saw from your return address that you're only a few hours from me. I'll take you sailing AND buy you a beer or a cup of coffee AND cook your dinner if you'll come inspect my sanitation system Would love to meet ya!Enjoying the book, by the way!

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I noticed that too...

And I could be persuaded to drive over and help you out on a weekend... Email me (I'm in all the directories) and let's talk about it.

 

[Phil Herring]

Yikes!

> And a personal inspection of my sanitation installation!

 

[Bob Schmit]

vented loop

I have a '92 30' Hunter and I just open the vanity left side mirror to check my vented loop for the head. Didn't they put one in your boat already, like mine?BOB

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

A vented loop under the vanity...

puts it too low to be of use whatever. For a vented loop to do its job, it has to be at least 6-8" above waterline AT ANY ANGLE OF HEEL...which, on most sailboats (except cats), puts it on a bulkhead at about shoulder height.

 

[Sherry]

Bob - No loop - yet

Bob,No vented loop in my head. The water fill line is installed just at the head with no loop in the middle. How does yours run? Do you have a picture?Thanks!Sherry

 

[Sailgunner]

Would like a picture too

I have a 91 30T with no loop. I almost sunk the boat last week. I forgot to close my intake value and mistakingly left the tank value to open. I came back to the boat Friday afternoon and the bilge pump was running. Why would Hunter make a boat without a vented loop? I have not heard of putting a loop in the cabinet. Bob, pictures would be appreciated.

 

[Jim Ormond]

The Setup on My '91 30T

As far as waste discharge, here is how my '91 30T is set up from the factory:1. Waste line from toilet goes straight to holding tank (no option for your guests to unknowingly discharge directly overboard).2. Tank outlet goes to a "Y" connection where one leg goes to deck pumpout fitting, and the other goes to the discharge seacock via the vented loop and hand pump in the aft port lazaret. The "Y" is not a valve, just a coupling.This means, of cource, that you can be a bad boy or girl and pump overboard, but it would be a purposful, premeditated action to empty the tank, not an inadvertent accident while pumping the toilet.

 

[Sherry]

just like mine

Jim,Having measured and mapped my entire system in 100 degree heat last weekend, I can say that mine is just like yours Sherry