Greetings, I've spent the last several evenings installing a new toilet and Lectra/San unit in my boat, and I'm in a bit of a pickle. I have only one mounting option/location, based on the required hose routing and cabinet space. Actually, the location is ideal except for one issue; the end of the hose barb on the Lectra/San unit is 4" from the end of the hose barb on the through-hull. All would be well if they were level, but unfortunately, the hose barb on the Lectra/San unit is around 1" above the through-hull. I can't lower the Lectra/San unit to accommodate this difference, and honestly, I like the downward slope of the line which, along with the other hose routing, will leave not a single low spot in the system. I'm using white PVC sanitation hose, and it's not bad to work with in longer lengths, particularly if you can work with its natural bends, but it is as rigid as a steel rod in short lengths. It simply won't flex in a 10" section to make the very mild bends necessary to make the connection to the through-hull. Is there a more flexible hose that I could use for this application? My only other alternative would be to install another through-hull, which I really don't fancy! I think I know the answer to this, but must sanitation-grade hose be used for this downward sloping, short distance, where waste water simply cannot collect? Any advice would be most appreciated!
Sanitation Hose Advice
- Thread starter Seadweller
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I like schedule 80 pvc
the grey stuff. Withstands temperature and pressure better. If you are very carefull with a propane torch you can heat up the pvc and bend it. Don't get it too hot and bend it little by little. You can use solid wire to lay out your routing and then use it as a template when you bend the pvc. For that small piece you mentioned, take a piece of pvc a few inches longer than you need, put your bends in it, then cut it with a circular saw or a chop saw to get your exact length. I like using the chop saw, it is very quick, accurate, and straight. Then just touch up the i.d. and o.d. with a file to deburr it.
the grey stuff. Withstands temperature and pressure better. If you are very carefull with a propane torch you can heat up the pvc and bend it. Don't get it too hot and bend it little by little. You can use solid wire to lay out your routing and then use it as a template when you bend the pvc. For that small piece you mentioned, take a piece of pvc a few inches longer than you need, put your bends in it, then cut it with a circular saw or a chop saw to get your exact length. I like using the chop saw, it is very quick, accurate, and straight. Then just touch up the i.d. and o.d. with a file to deburr it.
Lectra San Question
Are you allowed the overboard discharge of the electra san treatment in florida waters,off shore distance or what???? I am trying to understand the use of the lectra san use in florida,can you explain your intended use ????. I see you home port is in tampa. Nick
Are you allowed the overboard discharge of the electra san treatment in florida waters,off shore distance or what???? I am trying to understand the use of the lectra san use in florida,can you explain your intended use ????. I see you home port is in tampa. Nick
No flex
" ... is as rigid as a steel rod in short lengths. It simply won't flex in a 10" section to make the very mild bends necessary to make the connection to the through-hull." How about you put a 90 degree fitting on the thru hull? Then you cn run the hose straight to the thru hull. Regards, Big Joe
" ... is as rigid as a steel rod in short lengths. It simply won't flex in a 10" section to make the very mild bends necessary to make the connection to the through-hull." How about you put a 90 degree fitting on the thru hull? Then you cn run the hose straight to the thru hull. Regards, Big Joe
try a no hub clamp
Try a no hub clamp, available at your local hardware store. I used several of these for tight, short hose runs between the lectra san outlet and the thru-hull which were less than a foot apart; this in lieu of cutting and fighting with short pieces of sanitation hose. matt
Try a no hub clamp, available at your local hardware store. I used several of these for tight, short hose runs between the lectra san outlet and the thru-hull which were less than a foot apart; this in lieu of cutting and fighting with short pieces of sanitation hose. matt
Seadweller consider making a jig to allow
you the warm the section of hose in an oven and prebend it to the shape you need. A couple of plugs, to fit the inside diameter of the hose, mounted on movable blocks would let you warm the hose in the oven until it was malleable and then form the hose into the shape you need.
you the warm the section of hose in an oven and prebend it to the shape you need. A couple of plugs, to fit the inside diameter of the hose, mounted on movable blocks would let you warm the hose in the oven until it was malleable and then form the hose into the shape you need.
You may have a bigger problem than you realize
I think you're gonna have to find another location for the Lectra/San, 'cuz when the toilet and Lectra/San are at or below the waterline, vented loops are needed between the toilet and the treatement unit and between the treatment unit and the thru-hull. Even if they're a little above waterline when the boat is at rest, both will be below waterline when the boat is heeled. Without the loops, waste will run out the thru-hull and back into the toilet when you're heeled. Both loops need to be at least 4-6" above waterline at any angle of heel...which on most sailboats puts 'em 3-4' above the toilet. No matter where the toilet discharge goes, there should also be a vented loop in the head INTAKE...not in the line between the thru-hull and the pump, but between the pump and bowl. See your toilet installation instructions for an iillustration...and also the Lectra/San instructions for instructions re vented loops. As for your question about how to deal with a hose that needs to bend tighter than it wants to bend willingly...use an inline radius fitting. Nick, to answer your question...the discharge of treated waste from a CG certified Type I MSD (i.e. Lectra/San) is legal in ALL US waters except in those specifically designated "no discharge." The only "no discharge" waters in FL--in the whole Gulf, fact--are the Keys and Destin Harbor. You can use it instead of a holding tank everywhere else. You can read all about how it works here: http://www.raritaneng.com/products/waste_treatment/lectrasan.html
I think you're gonna have to find another location for the Lectra/San, 'cuz when the toilet and Lectra/San are at or below the waterline, vented loops are needed between the toilet and the treatement unit and between the treatment unit and the thru-hull. Even if they're a little above waterline when the boat is at rest, both will be below waterline when the boat is heeled. Without the loops, waste will run out the thru-hull and back into the toilet when you're heeled. Both loops need to be at least 4-6" above waterline at any angle of heel...which on most sailboats puts 'em 3-4' above the toilet. No matter where the toilet discharge goes, there should also be a vented loop in the head INTAKE...not in the line between the thru-hull and the pump, but between the pump and bowl. See your toilet installation instructions for an iillustration...and also the Lectra/San instructions for instructions re vented loops. As for your question about how to deal with a hose that needs to bend tighter than it wants to bend willingly...use an inline radius fitting. Nick, to answer your question...the discharge of treated waste from a CG certified Type I MSD (i.e. Lectra/San) is legal in ALL US waters except in those specifically designated "no discharge." The only "no discharge" waters in FL--in the whole Gulf, fact--are the Keys and Destin Harbor. You can use it instead of a holding tank everywhere else. You can read all about how it works here: http://www.raritaneng.com/products/waste_treatment/lectrasan.html
Not quite true...
You may be confusing the regs that apply to cruise ships and other commercial vessels in your waters with those that apply to recreational vessels. The only NDZ in the PNW are the Canadian Provincial Park anchorages. See the list of NDZ on the EPA site here: http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/regulatory/vessel_sewage/vsdnozone.html Amazingly, there isn't a single NDZ in the whole state of WA...not even Lake Union or Lake Washington, which are fresh water. The discharge of treated waste from a CG Certified Type I or II MSD is legal even there. However, it is illegal to flush directly overboard or dump a tank just about everywhere in the San Juans. To do either legally, you must be in open ocean at least 3 miles from any land, including any islands, in any direction...and the Strait is the only place in the whole San Juan chain where it's possible to be at least 3 miles off an island in any direction.
You may be confusing the regs that apply to cruise ships and other commercial vessels in your waters with those that apply to recreational vessels. The only NDZ in the PNW are the Canadian Provincial Park anchorages. See the list of NDZ on the EPA site here: http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/regulatory/vessel_sewage/vsdnozone.html Amazingly, there isn't a single NDZ in the whole state of WA...not even Lake Union or Lake Washington, which are fresh water. The discharge of treated waste from a CG Certified Type I or II MSD is legal even there. However, it is illegal to flush directly overboard or dump a tank just about everywhere in the San Juans. To do either legally, you must be in open ocean at least 3 miles from any land, including any islands, in any direction...and the Strait is the only place in the whole San Juan chain where it's possible to be at least 3 miles off an island in any direction.
Mick, not to pick on you but
here is the EPA register for no discharge zones and PNW ( which I assume is the Pacific Northwest) is not listed. Washington State is not listed. http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/regulatory/vessel_sewage/vsdnozone.html Jim S/V Java
here is the EPA register for no discharge zones and PNW ( which I assume is the Pacific Northwest) is not listed. Washington State is not listed. http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/regulatory/vessel_sewage/vsdnozone.html Jim S/V Java
No Discharge Zones
These are locally mandated, most are in BC waters, NDZ's. All marinas are posted 'No Discharge' and this means treated or otherwise. I personally dont appreciate any type of discharge in anchorages. I'm not trying to start a right or wrong argument, just bring some 'awareness' to this issue. Even though it is an approved MSD device, when you are using it in an area where other people use the waters, you are 'dumping' sewage. Whether, or not it is a "EPA" listed NDZ.
These are locally mandated, most are in BC waters, NDZ's. All marinas are posted 'No Discharge' and this means treated or otherwise. I personally dont appreciate any type of discharge in anchorages. I'm not trying to start a right or wrong argument, just bring some 'awareness' to this issue. Even though it is an approved MSD device, when you are using it in an area where other people use the waters, you are 'dumping' sewage. Whether, or not it is a "EPA" listed NDZ.
Mick, Understand your feelings
Down here on the Potomac River we routinely get warnings to stay out of the water due to a sewage spill up river from a treatment plant dumping raw sewage. It's not the boats that are the problem. To fix the plants, it would cost more that the people are willing to pay in increased taxes. Politicans like getting re-elected... Jim S/V Java
Down here on the Potomac River we routinely get warnings to stay out of the water due to a sewage spill up river from a treatment plant dumping raw sewage. It's not the boats that are the problem. To fix the plants, it would cost more that the people are willing to pay in increased taxes. Politicans like getting re-elected... Jim S/V Java
Appreciation!
Thanks everyone for the great input!! By the way, both the head and the Lectra/San will be above the waterline at all times, so I was informed by the manufacturer that a vented loop is not necessary. The only vent required is a small, pinhose size vent on the flushing water line, that evidently determines the water level in the bowl. You can choose from two size "vents" to adjust the bowls water level. I'll investigate all of the options presented!!!!!!
Thanks everyone for the great input!! By the way, both the head and the Lectra/San will be above the waterline at all times, so I was informed by the manufacturer that a vented loop is not necessary. The only vent required is a small, pinhose size vent on the flushing water line, that evidently determines the water level in the bowl. You can choose from two size "vents" to adjust the bowls water level. I'll investigate all of the options presented!!!!!!
Mick, again I believe you're mistaken...
While it is true that all marinas in WA do require that all vessels be "certified" that are unable to discharge the toilet directly overboard, and tanks that are secured from discharge as prescribed by federal law in 33 CFR 159.7, treatment devices ARE legal in all but one: Shillshole (not sure of the spelling). Using an onboard treatment device is NOT "dumping sewage"...in fact, not DUMPING anything...they discharge a single flush at a time. In fact, the environmental impact from just ONE illegally dumped tank is greater than that from 1000 boats, all equipped with Lectra/Sans, in the same area for 24 hours.What's more, the discharge from a Lectra/San is much cleaner than the discharge from most sewage treatment plants, which is where the contents of holding tanks (at least those that aren't illegally dumped) end up. Federal water quality standards for swimming call for max bacteria count of 200/100 ml...the bacteria count in the discharge from a Lectra/San is <10/100 ml...20 x cleaner than the federal standard and actually cleaner than most coastal waters due to runoff, and definitely cleaner than the water in any marina. The discharge from most sewage treatment plants does at least meet federal water quality standards for the bacteria count...except when there's a spill, which happens all too often (It was ironic that a sewage treatment plant spill that closed all the beaches and shellfish beds for over a week occurred in RI on the very day that RI's statewide NDZ law went into effect). But what sewage treatment plants don't do is remove the nitrogen and other nutrients in sewage that put a heavy BOD demand on the waters, causing algae blooms and other environmental problems. The L/S doesn't eliminate 'em entirely, but it does reduce BOD by 35%. In fact, the BOD in the discharge from Lectra/San is only equal to that of 4 oak leaves landing in the water. The bottom line: onboard treatment is a MUCH more environmentally responsible solution to onboard sewage than holding tanks.
While it is true that all marinas in WA do require that all vessels be "certified" that are unable to discharge the toilet directly overboard, and tanks that are secured from discharge as prescribed by federal law in 33 CFR 159.7, treatment devices ARE legal in all but one: Shillshole (not sure of the spelling). Using an onboard treatment device is NOT "dumping sewage"...in fact, not DUMPING anything...they discharge a single flush at a time. In fact, the environmental impact from just ONE illegally dumped tank is greater than that from 1000 boats, all equipped with Lectra/Sans, in the same area for 24 hours.What's more, the discharge from a Lectra/San is much cleaner than the discharge from most sewage treatment plants, which is where the contents of holding tanks (at least those that aren't illegally dumped) end up. Federal water quality standards for swimming call for max bacteria count of 200/100 ml...the bacteria count in the discharge from a Lectra/San is <10/100 ml...20 x cleaner than the federal standard and actually cleaner than most coastal waters due to runoff, and definitely cleaner than the water in any marina. The discharge from most sewage treatment plants does at least meet federal water quality standards for the bacteria count...except when there's a spill, which happens all too often (It was ironic that a sewage treatment plant spill that closed all the beaches and shellfish beds for over a week occurred in RI on the very day that RI's statewide NDZ law went into effect). But what sewage treatment plants don't do is remove the nitrogen and other nutrients in sewage that put a heavy BOD demand on the waters, causing algae blooms and other environmental problems. The L/S doesn't eliminate 'em entirely, but it does reduce BOD by 35%. In fact, the BOD in the discharge from Lectra/San is only equal to that of 4 oak leaves landing in the water. The bottom line: onboard treatment is a MUCH more environmentally responsible solution to onboard sewage than holding tanks.
Peggie, is the radius fitting you are referring to
simply a double-barbed hose connector that has a given angle (45 or 90 deg.)? I can't seem to find anything on the internet...... Thanks!
simply a double-barbed hose connector that has a given angle (45 or 90 deg.)? I can't seem to find anything on the internet...... Thanks!
The only source I know of for 'em is SeaLand
http://www.sealandtechnology.com/productpages.asp?pid=66 Scroll to the bottom of the page to see the drawings and how the components go together with PVC cement.
http://www.sealandtechnology.com/productpages.asp?pid=66 Scroll to the bottom of the page to see the drawings and how the components go together with PVC cement.
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