San Francisco Bay sailing / gps

Rob Hessenius · Sep 7, 2009

Denile~ A GPS is a very handy piece of equiptment to have, not always necessary for all. You dont need to spend 7-8 hundred to buy one at first to find out. I enjoy the safety and reliability that they provide and the many other features of information that they provide way beyond the navigation scope.

Paul F · Sep 7, 2009

It's not likely that you will run aground in the Bay. But on a foggy day a gps might get you home, back to the dock or ramp without a lot of worry. Any gps will work for this. You might find a smaller pocket version will serve your needs well.

Ed Schenck · Sep 7, 2009

Your question reminds me of my first Lake Erie crossing many years ago. The boat came with a little Garmin handheld. I had plugged in a waypoint to a Canadian marina, getting the coordinates from my paper chart. The day of the 45 mile crossing it was duck soup about mid-way(the middle of the shipping channel). What a relief when just one mile from the coast we broke into sunshine. And right in front of us was the breakwall protecting said marina. Our first real GPS experience.

Now with the big charplotter one wonders how we lived without it. You might want to start on E-Bay. People are always moving up to bigger and better. There are lots of good used ones out there. Did you check here on SBO?

Stu Jackson · Sep 7, 2009

A simple $300 Garmin GPS Map 76Cx would do, and you could find one for a lot less but you need the charts for here, other models have preloaded charts; learn more on websites about GPS features. You do NOT need a biggie. I sailed here for years with just an old Magellan Blazer, numbers only with waypoint #s inked on charts.

What you'll find are a few things.

1. The fog that other parts of the country get just doesn't happen here. It is RARE for down on the deck fog here and I've been sailing here since 1978. Yes, we had the Cosco Busan, but that was November and it cleared up a few hours later. You will NOT need the GPS to work your way through fog. The fog is at 1,500 feet. Rumors of SF fog are perpetrated by people who don't live here. Oh, I got hit with low fog one June morning a year or two ago, between 7 and 8 am in The Slot, it burned off an hour later, the ferries were reporting 1/4 mile visibility. It does get down on the deck somewhat more often outside the Gate, two or three times a year.

2. After you start sailing out of the same place, you'll find your way back home with your eyes closed. Ya really can't miss SFO, can ya? Landmarks (visual primarily, then with the GPS as waypoints) and comfort with your surroundings increases exponentially as you sail more. Practice triangulation with your charts so you'll always know where you are. Learn traditional navigation before you go all electronic. This is a great place to do just that.

3. Anywhere else you go is so obvious from charts, that you'd do well to maybe get a GPS and deliberately put it away until you're comfortable using your charts. Get to know the #s of the buoys. You have a HUGE channel between you and the Oakland Airport where no one ever sails? Why? 'Cuz the main channel is on the west side and it's kinda outta the way! Nice. If you really like easy sailing, it's a great place to sail around with NO traffic.

4. Learn Ch. 14 VTS, always listen to it, especially when you're north of Hunter's Point.

Save your big boat bucks for a big boat GPS when you get a big boat. Have fun.

seadaddler · Sep 7, 2009

Love it

Shop around and go into WM and just check them out,look at the different features and the size of the screen and ant sun glare.
You do need to use paper charts and have them on the boat but join the new
way to go boating,GPS will make you go more places and do more sailing.
I do check over my paper charts once a week but use the GPS every day out sailing.
Like I said don't rush into a cheap one look at all the different types they are always changing before buying and ask a lot of questions what is good,I like my Chartplotter right at the wheel so I can always see what's going on.
I recommend a good size screen in the cockpit.
Nick

Stu Jackson · Sep 7, 2009

With all due respect, he's got a 25 foot boat. Following your logic, by the time he gets familiar with his new GPS, they'll have new models out! Given that, I continue to recommend something readable but inexpensive as a starter until he finds the features he needs and wants and is willing or decides to make a larger investment in something. My earlier point is he doesn't need one sailing here. It is a superfluous piece of equipment for where he's sailing.

I agree that going into a WM and looking at them is an extremely valuable idea.

He can also read about it here: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...tView?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001

seadaddler · Sep 7, 2009

Love it

Shop around and go into WM and just check them out,look at the different features and the size of the screen and ant sun glare.
You do need to use paper charts and have them on the boat but join the new
way to go boating,GPS chartplotter will make you go more places and do more sailing.
I do check over my paper charts once a week but use the GPS every day out sailing.
Like I said don't rush into a cheap one look at all the different types they are always changing before buying and ask a lot of questions what is good,I like my Chartplotter right at the wheel so I can always see what's going on.
I recommend a good size screen in the cockpit and don't need to spend big $$$$$$
Nick

Island Girl 34 · Sep 7, 2009

A handheld Garmin will do you fine...

I sailed for years with a Garmin Handheld GPSMap 76 on my Pearson 26. For a boat of your size, it is a comfort to have. If nothing else having a waypoint set to the entrance of your home harbor will give you time and distance to home on your day sailing return trip. Good deals can be had on used ones on eBay. The bluechart software with uploadable charts for your area are nice too but really just a luxury.

Dick McKee · Sep 7, 2009

As always on a boat its need vs want. We are just visitors here on the bay, but after sailing here almost every day for about 6 weeks, I agree with Stu a hand held would serve you quite well.

Ross · Sep 7, 2009

My garmin 72 gives me lat and lon, speed over the bottom, course and about 500 waypoints. I can print small chart booklets from this web site; http://ocsdata.ncd.noaa.gov/BookletChart/
I am a better navigator for having to think than I would be if this was all served up on a platter.

seadaddler · Sep 7, 2009

Handheld

I do have a garmin 72 that I use for Kayaking and hiking and backup on my H-36 but hate the small screen and I guess spoiled from using my Ray C-80.
I found my 72 on E-BAY and now looking to up grade from the 72 on E-Bay,depends how much you are looking to spend and how much you will be using it,I use my C-80 all the time while sailing the shallow waters here in Florida,Charlotte Harbor.
Asking for advise in your area is a plus.
Nick

Stu Jackson · Sep 7, 2009

seadaddler said:
Asking for advise in your area is a plus.

Nick, that's why I answered him, I do live here.

Ross' idea is consistent with my experience with the Blazer, #s only teach you so very much about navigation, and avoid the pinball machine syndrome!

Allan12210 · Sep 7, 2009

Take the time to learn navigation from a paper chart and a nice Forespar hand bearing compass. I always thought that was the fun way anyhow. Remember that the electronic aids to navigation (GPS, Radar) are only backups to the old fashioned way. I know they are fun to use but what happens when your batteries go dead or get shorted out by a wave? Being able to switch back to the paper chart and continue on with confidence is the skill of a real sailor.

With that being said, I worked my way up starting in 1985 from a hand bearing compass, to Loran and then a couple of handheld GPSs that had no map functionality, just a breadcrumb trail of where I'd been and waypoint marks for routes that I programmed in ahead of time (preparation is always key). In the last few years I hooked my old GPS to my laptop and ran navigation software from there. It was really nice for the delta, but in July I finally got tired of running up and down the stairs to look at it. I still kept the paper charts in the cockpit. Last month I bought a Garmin GPSmap 478 on ebay. But it will set you back $490. It is quite nice and has both marine charts built in and highways for use in the car. But, you can survive without it for quite a while. For the small vessel sailing you are doing, it would really be a toy that you could defer buying. I've felt the same way about Radar all these years. For the amount I would use it and the cost for the system, plus extra house batteries to run it, its just not an expense I could justify.

My wife and I have sailed back and forth from San Francisco to Monterey a bunch of times in fog and never had a problem. One time (1995?) we went 32 miles up the coast from our last visual fix on shore (pre gps, and Loran was down) including a position adjustment off Pigeon Point and saw the Half Moon Bay bouy G"1S" right on the nose as it appeared out of the fog 1/4 mile ahead of us at the exact time we predicted we would arrive. That was really cool. Remember, your depth sounder is also a line of position aiding in telling you where you are. That's how we figured out where to turn.

Spend your time and effort learning how to sail and navigate the non-electronic dependent way. And..do what Stu said. He's got it down too for the Bay Area.

Have fun sailing in the South Bay. I was at Coyote Point last May on a club cruise and had a good time. I tried to help a young fellow (Rob) fix his outboard, but we never got it started. I suspected water in the carb, but wasn't familiar enough with Mercury's to take it apart. Hope he got it fixed.

Allan
Alchemie, H34
Alameda, SF Bay

John Nantz · Sep 7, 2009

Save your money

There isn't anything I can think of that a person would need a GPS for on the bay. Everything is clearly visible as far as landmarks go. Coyote Point? Like Stu said, look for SFO. Angle Island, SF-Oak Bay Bridge, Golden Gate, Alcatraz, Richmond refineries, Benicia, it's all pretty easy to pick out. The only possible hard parts MAY be the entrance to the sloughs going into Palo Alto, Redwood City, or San Rafael.

Oh, and if you have a swing-up centerboard (not a daggerboard).... that makes for a good depth sounder in the South Bay.

Joe · Sep 7, 2009

You should have a gps,

Denile said:
Im new to SF Bay sailing and I was wondering is it worth the money $ 700 -800 to spend on an nice GPS. The new ones are nice with depth Finders, speed, Charting etc. I have a 25 footer and was inquiring if this is overkill.
Thanks , Denile

Yeah, an $800 chartplotter is overkill for your needs..... but you really should have a gps.

Why, 'cause their just plain cool! They really enhance your sailing experience and can help you get back to the marina alot easier... especially after sunset... fog or no.

I suggest the Garmin 76 handheld gps for less than 200 bucks, or something similar. The deal is you can always upgrade to a fixed mount color chartplotter and keep the handheld for back up. You can use it for your laptop map programs. Take it on your dinghy trips.

I use mine to give me tacking angles, velocity made good info, course and speed data and elapsed time when I sail a series of waypoints... just the kind of fun you can have daysailing the bay. Have a blast !!

Scott T-Bird · Sep 8, 2009

I agree with Joe ... a handheld is fun to have. I certainly have no need for GPS but I have a Garmin 76 just for fun ... and fun it is until my wife tells me to stop playing with it!

seadaddler · Sep 8, 2009

Got Ya

Stu You got it. Uncle
That's why in my second reply I said my advice doesn't help others that do the sailing I do and you can better advise.
On the west coast of Florida with so many far off places to go and sailing down in my H-36 from NY to SW Florida way different than 25 ft sailing in your area,still think a shopping around is a good thing.
Nick

Stu Jackson · Sep 8, 2009

Glad we agree, thanks, Nick. Gotta look you up next time I'm in FL so you can show me! Drop by anytime if you ever get here. Someone actually did recently, but because my leg re-broke I couldn't take him out sailing and missed meeting another nice fella.

Ross · Sep 8, 2009

I wonder how much more cautious we would be if we were unable to fix our position with such accuracy. I have cheerfully sailed the 8 foot contour using my depth sounder but have learned that in some places the soundings on the chart are few and far between and sometimes the bottom is lumpy. The shoals on the Chesapeake bay are quite accurately shown and I have been guilty of trusting the gps and sailing too close to the thin edges. I think that I would stay farther out if I couldn't know quite accurately where I was at any moment.