San Diego Sailboat Accident

Alan · Apr 2, 2011

The weight is not the problem here....it's the distribution. Looks like 8 to 10 people onboard, figure 2000lbs. If these folks were properly distributed throughout the boat I'm quite sure it would not have flipped. The skipper must surely be an idiot for allowing, first that number, and secondly them all to be sitting together.
I'm smelling 'lawsuit'.

higgs · Apr 2, 2011

Was that boat sailing when it capsized, or with they out for a motor?

heart of gold · Apr 2, 2011

It doesn't look as though the water ballast was in by the way it is sitting in the picture. I use town an M and without the ballast it wasn't the most stable boat, and with that many people in it, Yikes

Mike B1026 · Apr 2, 2011

Not that it makes a big difference, I believe that picture was actually taken the day before the accident. The "skipper" routinely overloaded the boat. IMO

Although this is a "charity," I think some research will be made into that. Although the they didn't charge for the "sail" I did read there was a $10.00 "registration fee" per person. I don't know if this is true or not. Another poster said that was/is on the "charities" website. I haven't been to that site.

LloydB · Apr 2, 2011

Whats up? If someone had just sent me this picture and asked what I thought was going on without adding any details? I would make a guess that some guy had his whole family out for for a swim/float and every body went to starboard so the kids could swing on the boom out to port.(maybe with added comments about traffic,life vests,rigging & boat overload) Does it look like that to anybody else or is it just me? (am understanding a previous day)

LloydB · Apr 2, 2011

actually I meant to write(without adding any details) When you blow up the picture what does it look like they are doing to you? At the time I first saw this pic news reports were still unconfirmed as to; was this a sailboat or not and 25' or 35"or not. There was an interview and a statement from the picture taker having regretted not reporting it to the authorities when taken a previous day. About that picture, several questions popped into my mind. doing what? photo shop? actual time/date? only one pic? and more.
When you blow up the picture what does it look like they are doing to you?

John · Apr 2, 2011

What I can't figure out is this: The boat is clearly heeling to port, but there are clearly at least four people sitting on the starboard side, which means about half the weight is on that side, no?

woodster · Apr 2, 2011

John said:
What I can't figure out is this: The boat is clearly heeling to port, but there are clearly at least four people sitting on the starboard side, which means about half the weight is on that side, no?

if you look close at the pic you will also see that the bow is to high for just motoring in the area they are in so my guess is that pic was taken just before it wet bottoms up...prolly in a port turn under power and they way it was loaded it was easy to flip upside down

regards

woody

Mike B1026 · Apr 2, 2011

Picture

To me, it doesn't look like that picture was taken from the level of a kayak. Another website had a quote from the guy that took that picture. He said it was taken the day before. He was on a boat.

CaptDon01 said:
Actually, the photo was reportedly taken minutes before the accident. The people were on a kyak and couldn't believe what they saw and took the picture. The picture shows they were motoring, however one report I read stated only the jib was up and a wind gust hit the boat. I don't know how you could sail with the jib with that many people in the cockpit. I know with only 4 in our cockpit makes getting to the winches a bit of a job. So I like to have someone standing in the cabin to make room in the cockpit, and have additional weight forward.

Very sad.....

Don

rgranger · Apr 3, 2011

I had 10 people on board a Coronado 25' once. It is a much heavier boat with a lot more ballast. And I brought them along for rail meat. It was a windy day and we wanted to hot dog a bit. Everyone on board had sailed before and we were distributed evenly along the rail.

What strikes me about this picture when I put it in context with my own experiences is how much of the bottom I can see. He must have forgotten to fill the ballast tank. If each person had an average weight of 150# then he just added 1500# to the total weight. You should not be able to see bottom paint with a boat that overloaded unless .....

Dang. That is why you have to make a check list

With all of the things to keep track of... and all of them so important.... you don't want to count on your memory to get them all.:naughty:

Sad, I feel for the guy. I'm sure he feels total shame and his life will forever be scarred.

Roger Long · Apr 3, 2011

rgranger said:
What strikes me about this picture when I put it in context with my own experiences

As a naval architect with 40 years experience doing trim and stability calculations, I would have to say that, unless the camera caught it in some instant of strange heeling, pitching, and heaving, I 100% agree with you.

10 people at 160 lbs average weight would put a boat this size about 3 inches below the waterline she was floating at before they boarded. Their weight being aft of amidships would cause the bow to go up and the stern to go down by about equal amounts. If you mentally heel that boat back level in the picture, the painted waterline would be about at the actual waterline. It this picture is a true reflection of her actual trim and flotation at the time of the accident, either her waterline was painted very high (which it doesn't look like), or the ballast tank was not filled.

capta · Apr 4, 2011

accident; what accident?

As a professional mariner for over 50 years, I see this sort of stupidity quite often.
This weekend in Honeymoon Bay on Water Island in the VI, I saw at least half a dozen overloaded boats ferrying passengers to a bash on the beach.
I think you all have missed the point; this was no accident! This was the inevitable conclusion of mixing (in this case) boating with STUPIDITY.
It seems no matter how much states push licensing (only a revenue generating system) & boating safety courses, until there is a way to weed out the complete idiots from any activity, many more people will be killed or injured.
Just as a point of interest; does this particular boat type actually have a water ballast tank? I doubt that full or empty it would have made much difference with all that weight aft.
I believe that the boat as pictured is crossing a wake. If you look aft....

LuzSD · Apr 4, 2011

capta said:
As a professional mariner for over 50 years, I see this sort of stupidity quite often.
This weekend in Honeymoon Bay on Water Island in the VI, I saw at least half a dozen overloaded boats ferrying passengers to a bash on the beach.
I think you all have missed the point; this was no accident! This was the inevitable conclusion of mixing (in this case) boating with STUPIDITY.
It seems no matter how much states push licensing (only a revenue generating system) & boating safety courses, until there is a way to weed out the complete idiots from any activity, many more people will be killed or injured.
Just as a point of interest; does this particular boat type actually have a water ballast tank? I doubt that full or empty it would have made much difference with all that weight aft.
I believe that the boat as pictured is crossing a wake. If you look aft....

First, I thought this subject was beat to death in the first go round and now it seems as if it is an entirely new subject ! Oh well, you got me back in! This boat is a water ballast boat and it has been pretty clearly established that there was no (or not nearly enough) water in it from the beginning.

I finally went to Heart of Sailing website and looked at many of the pictures in their album from both Dana Point and San Diego over the past couple years, and see that this is by no means a first time for this many people to be aboard this small exact boat. There are picture after picture of 7-8 and some with 9 people on it, in every assortment of size (lots of small children) and most are of the adults with no life vests on. I am sure there have been many conversations in the past week as these folks realized that "there but by the grace of God...."

A wake was mentioned......., and those are always present on the bay... but as they were possibly still plucking people from the water, or very close to... not only a huge Cruise ship went past in the fairly tight spot all of this took place, but a Car Carrier went by as well....... we heard the 5 horns and just cringed.

moparv104x4 · Apr 4, 2011

And the Pop Top is open which makes it that much easier to fill the cabin with water if there is a capsize. For a supposedly experienced sailor he made a lot of mistakes.

Tim R. · Apr 4, 2011

Look at the flag in the background. I believe part of this heel was due to windage; Mast, furled head sail, boom, poptop, people. Lots of windage.

The wave at the stern appears to be from the boat itself which is more pronounced from all the weight in the cockpit.

Stan Breaux · Apr 4, 2011

The pop top being open also adds a lot of weight high up on the boat. I have a Mac 26. I've never taken it away from the dock without the water ballast full. I've had maybe 9 or 10 people on it before, but half of them were young kids, and some were always below.
This accident shouldn't have happened.

San Diego Sailboat Accident

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